Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[K Fleur]

Well, duh. That isn't evidence of anything. They needed something to work with. They're still telling the story the way they want to.

Even if the war against the Others isn't the endgame of the story, which the novels don't indicate at all, the idea that it will be solved with a single character snuffing out the entire threat on their own is a bogus development. Anyone familiar with the novels should be able to see how much creative liberties the show has taken, it's much more than just adapting the work for a different medium.

Martin has already voiced irritation with some of their decisions. He's expressed annoyance with how often they kill off characters, that are in his own words "still very alive to me".

Then he should finish the f***ing books.

 

[Psyfer]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6th book is finished and his publisher is waiting for the end of the series to announced the release date

 

[MadDevil]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6th book is finished and his publisher is waiting for the end of the series to announced the release date

I keep hoping that, but I've also resigned myself to the possibility that he just doesn't give a f*** anymore and won't ever finish the series.

 

[RandV]

I think Arya killing the NK is a detail that Benioff and Weiss wouldn't make up. Arya has to kill someone important, and I think Cersei is going to die a the hand (pun not intended) of Jamie.

I also think the decision to kill the NK early is more of a GRRM thing. He's always been more concerned with the politics.

I think the final episodes are largely going to align to GRRMs plan. He gave them the outline, and the muddle portion they had to sacrifice, but they're probably eager to use any roadmap for the end that they can.

That's not the impression I get at all. When I started reading ASoIF back in 2006, a saw the theme as being one of plot and intrigue (which GRRM obviously loves) while the big existential threat is growing in the background, and it will come down to how well whoever's left can band together to survive.

It's the show that chose to stick to the name "Game of Thrones", and continues to have it's promo material around the Iron Throne and who's going to win it. ASoIF is so much more nuanced and detailed (as the book always will be compared to it's TV/movie adaption) that I really don't think it's going to be resolved so simply with a hail mary assassins dagger so the characters can get back to the Game of Thrones and fight the last boss Cersei.

There's that scene in season two where Dany is having a vision (can't recall specifically how it plays out in the books) and is in a destroyed iron throne room covered in snow. I've always felt that this is what ASoIF is moving towards, that in the end it isn't really going to matter who sits on it.

Of course we still haven't finished the show and who knows if we'll get to finish the books, so we can only speculate at this point, but again the books are so much more richly detailed that I don't see it all coming together to Arya ending the threat with a one shot kill. And perhaps more importantly we should remember that GRRM is always changing his mind and rewriting things, so even he doesn't necessarily know where or how he's going to bring this all together yet.

 

[RandV]

I kind of wonder if the Night's King is going to be as central in the books as it was in the show. IIRC the NK was more like a mythical creature of the past than a "real" threat in the books. So far it has been the Others as a group rather than NK the individual that has made an appearance. I remember being somewhat surprised when the focus turned to the NK in the show rather than whatever random Walker they decided to use. Of course, it was one of the first moments where the show went beyond what the books had told us. It would also make sense that there are going to be a number of Walkers fighting in the books whereas in the show they just hang around behind the NK's back.

I'm thinking there might be something there, but the idea of a central pinnacle figure where the whole threat collapses if he dies doesn't really fit with the rough historical narrative where there was this big threat but this Azor guy with the magic sword lightbringer pushed them back into the North and they built a great big wall to keep them out. If you just have to kill the Night King to end it, it probably would have been ended already.

I believe one detail that George let out at some point is that the Other's are tied into the unusual whether system the world has, with summers winters lasting years. If this is true then the show didn't address this at all with the White Walkers demise. Hell it's barely even winter in the North, which is fine for budgetary reasons but they certainly abuse the lack of an environmental winter effect.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Martin said this is one of the best adaptations of a written work ever.

The idea he doesn’t like the show or that it is a giant departure is a total fabrication. As is the idea the ending will be different. He admitted they are ending in the same spot. It will be slightly different how they get there due to different smaller subplots, but the grand strokes are the same.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I keep hoping that, but I've also resigned myself to the possibility that he just doesn't give a **** anymore and won't ever finish the series.

My theory is that he's working on both books, at least trying to get the framework or the bulk of ADOS finished before publishing TWOW, but that could be complete BS too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

My theory is that he's working on both books, at least trying to get the framework or the bulk of ADOS finished before publishing TWOW, but that could be complete BS too.

I think he feels the pressure to get Winds out in some form, but I don’t think we ever see Dream of Spring.

I don’t think he knows how to resolve the story with all the tangents he went off in during Dance and Feast.

Northern conspiracies, southern conspiracies, FAegon, whatever Euron is up to, the faceless men, the maesters. List goes on and on. They all can’t get resolved and be true so a lot of fans headcanons are going to be proven very wrong.

 

[MadDevil]

I would laugh my ass off if the WW ended up being the mother of all red herrings.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I would laugh my ass off if the WW ended up being the mother of all red herrings.

We know literally nothing about them. Just that they exist and are bad. The myths about them are the vaguest of any in the books, and some of the least theorized on top of it.

I think what they were in the show is what they are. There isn’t some super lore dump about them.

 

[KesselBuiltMyHotrod]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6th book is finished and his publisher is waiting for the end of the series to announced the release date

lol.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Martin said this is one of the best adaptations of a written work ever.

The Expanse is best written at this point, hands down. GoT became fan fiction A LONG time ago

 

[Psyfer]

Martin said this is one of the best adaptations of a written work ever.

The idea he doesn’t like the show or that it is a giant departure is a total fabrication. As is the idea the ending will be different. He admitted they are ending in the same spot. It will be slightly different how they get there due to different smaller subplots, but the grand strokes are the same.

When did he say that because I don't remember seeing anything recent.

Regardless he would never give his true feelings on the show and I just can't imagine after the last 3 seasons he believes that anymore it was definitely up there during the first 4 seasons though.

 

[Emperoreddy]

When did he say that because I don't remember seeing anything recent.

Regardless he would never give his true feelings on the show and I just can't imagine after the last 3 seasons he believes that anymore it was definitely up there during the first 4 seasons though.

Like a week before the premiere. Westeros.org pissed and moaned and tried to claim he had to be lying.

He is a smart dude. He understands how adaptations work and the need for things to change from book to screen.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

We know literally nothing about them. Just that they exist and are bad. The myths about them are the vaguest of any in the books, and some of the least theorized on top of it.

I think what they were in the show is what they are. There isn’t some super lore dump about them.

Yeah the show didn't care...literally just "oh created by elves moving on"

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah the show didn't care...literally just "oh created by elves moving on"

That is legit how it will be in the books as well.

 

[Corto]

When did he say that because I don't remember seeing anything recent.

Regardless he would never give his true feelings on the show and I just can't imagine after the last 3 seasons he believes that anymore it was definitely up there during the first 4 seasons though.

At 1m03 seconds.

Actual GRRM on camera: "The series has been extremely faithful compared to 97% of all tv and movie adaptations... etc etc."

 

[RandV]

At 1m03 seconds.

Actual GRRM on camera: "The series has been extremely faithful compared to 97% of all tv and movie adaptations... etc etc."

Taken as a whole that's more or less true. They show only 'veered off' as they caught up to and surpassed his written work, which at that a point is up in the air for an adaption.

George also probably knows much better than his fans the restrictions of working a TV show vs writing a book.

 

[Corto]

Taken as a whole that's more or less true. They show only 'veered off' as they caught up to and surpassed his written work, which at that a point is up in the air for an adaption.

George also probably knows much better than his fans the restrictions of working a TV show vs writing a book.

Dorne, Iron Islands and fAegon plot lines HAD to be changed for TV, it would be horrible TV and it's not exactly great in the books either.

My only issue with that is HOW they changed the Dorne story line (it was by far the weakest part of the show, it felt like an apprentice's nephew wrote it, it was THAT bad) and that they missed a great opportunity to create a very unique villain (and a guy who people would love to hate) in Euron (as opposed to this generic dude in black leather).

All in all, as a fan of the books from like 2002, as someone who's been recommending the books to everyone I know before "it was cool", I'm more than happy with the show.
In fact, its one weak season was season 5 - other than that, for me it's the best show on TV since The Wire.

 

[firestarter]

Dissapointed by the series as a whole (books and Tv show) until GRRM turns the ship around and gives us more lore and mythology regarding the Others. The first chapter of the book and the first scenes of the TV show set Up this otherworldly mysterious evil that wants to wipe out all life, yet there's no more pages/screen tíme for them (Walkers, not counting wights) until the third book iirc/the end of season 2. Then you get a few chapters dealing with them here and there in the fifth book and through a few episodes (Fist of the First Men, Hardhome, killing and reanimating Viseryon, attacking the Wall and Winterfell end of the road). This storyline was the one I was most intested and I enjoyed every bit of it, but I hope GRRM has more to offer than the bland and premature ending of the TV show. I skipped the whole fourth book that was dealing with the conspiracy s*** going down in King's Landing and I couldn't care less for who sits on the Iron Throne (hope it's one of the Others in the books, because seriously, the protagonists deserve this kind of fate due to their entitled and self-absorbed behavior).

Go Walkers!

 

[Trap Jesus]

The whole series is kind of a shame. I read all the books and liked everything up until the 5th one where I just thought it was mediocre. Given the massive break I've all but lost interest now. Tried the TV series but could never really get into it, stopping around Season 2 or 3. I tried to keep spoilers to a minimum after the show passed the books but don't care anymore. Not that I'm up to date with what has happened with the show, but you hear different things with people talking about it (like I know the BIG thing that happened in this Sunday's episode).

I would still read the books if they came out, but I just am not counting on that to happen anymore.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Can't wait for Preston Jacobs' thoughts on the latest episode

 

[Emperoreddy]

Can't wait for Preston Jacobs' thoughts on the latest episode

Yeah. For the salt dump.

 

[Psyfer]

Can't wait for Preston Jacobs' thoughts on the latest episode

Its sad but I get more enjoyment out of his videos then the actual show anymore

 

[discostu]

Interesting article

The final season of 'Game of Thrones' was doomed to be divisive, and the Night King twist shows why

It speaks about the challenges that the showrunners have with the fact that they ran out of book material. Obviously, that's not a shock, but gets into soke of the specific challenges.

Most interesting tidbit is that the writers have decided to not indicate where they're working off of GRRM's plan or it's their own choices anymore. They're were doing that in the past.

Their stated reason was they want to protect the book reading experience for fans if they ever come out. I'm guessing that GRRM may have asked them to, but they're don't say that in the article.

The funny thing about the whole issue of the show outpacing the books, is that the fact that they show is going to finished the story has probably helped push the shows popularity, despite it being such a source of grief for the writers.