A defense first rebuild keeps salaries down

[BrindamoursNose]

Also makes the game of hockey near unwatchable.

Some of the best games I've ever seen were absolute defensive showdowns -- I wouldn't could them out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Also makes the game of hockey near unwatchable.

Watching the Leafs past the 1st round of the playoffs has been unwatchable for the simple reason that there's been nothing to watch.

 

[member 262271]

Fair points, fair points.

 

[CDN24]

Keeps wins down as well.

That might be a good thing. The rationale for drafting d-men first is that they take longer to develop so you stay bad longer (no wins) and still get your stud forwards because you are still bad. This is the Hawks model They drafted keith in 2002, Seabrook and Big Buff in 2003, Hjalmarsson in 2005 stayed bad and got Toews in 2006 and Kane in 2007- won the cup 3 years later. Then they all hit their peak at about the same time.

That said there is more than one way to skin a cat

LA drafted Brown in 2003, Kopitar 1st in 2005, simmonds who would be flipped later to get Richards(2003 pick) in 2007 Doughty the last key piece was drafted last in 2008 Carter was also a 2003 pick. For LA they did not end up overpaying the forwards as Philly got Richards and carter signed to long-term cap friendly deals before LA acquired them.

 

[Tak7]

People need to realize that the way you get into cap trouble, isn't by paying your stars the good money.

It's by paying the middle of your roster guys big money, when their contributions can easily be replaced by players on cheap deals / ELCs.

There's no such thing as a "Defense First" rebuild. We haven't seen a single example of a "defense first" rebuild that has led to a cup.

You draft the best available talent, and then you try and be smart with how you dish out your money.

 

[Gabriel426]

How much is Ekblad contract after his ELC?
I don’t think there is a formula between building D first or Fwd first. You need to draft BPA.

 

[Duffman955]

Drafting defense is much less of a guarantee than forwards. A Dman drafted top 5 doesnt have too much of a better chance than a Dman drafted in the 2nd round.

However much more difficult to ddraft Dmen overall for conservative GMs

 

[Menzinger]

Top pairing D men are very hard tondraft and develop. Looking a across the meaguenit becomes clear that not even the top 10 is a guarantee to produce them, especially considering how many come from the 2nd round or later.

Any rebuild attempt that tries to “force” itself to go this route would likely be doomed to flop

 

[IPS]

People need to realize that the way you get into cap trouble, isn't by paying your stars the good money.

It's by paying the middle of your roster guys big money, when their contributions can easily be replaced by players on cheap deals / ELCs.

There's no such thing as a "Defense First" rebuild. We haven't seen a single example of a "defense first" rebuild that has led to a cup.

You draft the best available talent, and then you try and be smart with how you dish out your money.

Agreed.

The contracts like David Clarkson's or Dion Phaneuf's is what kills you.

I won't have any qualms with Matthews and Marner making big bucks because you know that they're in the 1% talent level.

 

[Liminality]

I think he was talking more about enforcing a trap system on purpose to lower our teams goals for.
Don't agree with blocking our prospects offensive potential and I'm not sure if Babcock would agree with it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I sorta get where you're going on your overall point...

but how do you convince yourself to draft Oli Juolevi (the highest picked D of the draft) over Auston Matthews?

That's where the "D first rebuild" plan falls apart.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I sorta get where you're going on your overall point...

but how do you convince yourself to draft Oli Juolevi (the highest picked D of the draft) over Auston Matthews?

That's where the "D first rebuild" plan falls apart.

this is why things like "from the net out" and things like that don't make sense. you get the player that makes sense when it's there. now if you wanna take the risk and go for say Duncan Keith at pick 5 instead of the 2nd round (using total hindsight) then sure. but sometimes there are reasons why they are where they are.

 

[Stephen]

People need to realize that the way you get into cap trouble, isn't by paying your stars the good money.

It's by paying the middle of your roster guys big money, when their contributions can easily be replaced by players on cheap deals / ELCs.

There's no such thing as a "Defense First" rebuild. We haven't seen a single example of a "defense first" rebuild that has led to a cup.

You draft the best available talent, and then you try and be smart with how you dish out your money.

This is why we need to keep an eye on the Kadri, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Brown and Marleau contracts. If Kadri is Brayden Schenn on the third line, you keep him. If he starts looking like Dave Bolland, you gotta get rid of him.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

So. let me understand this theory. You are saying we should have drafted D-men instead of Nylander, Marner, and Matthews?

For the most part, you always draft the best player available when it's your turn at the podium. If you draft by team needs, you run the risk of skipping over some great players.

Looking back, and knowing what they know today, maybe our management team drafts Chabot instead of Nylander.

The time machine should just be used to skew he draft board in general. Pick them in the years they belong.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Then you end up with $30M on you blue line and no cap room to pay for forwards.

All them Cups the Preds have.

Rolling in them Cups.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

It's by paying the middle of your roster guys big money, when their contributions can easily be replaced by players on cheap deals / ELCs.

what happens if the middle roster guys get too many points ?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Does run and gun hockey (lots of goals for and against) elevate forward's salaries ?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

what happens if the middle roster guys get too many points ?

They are traded, above market, because their points are inflated.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

They are traded, above market, because their points are inflated.

who is a good example of that ?
any recent players ?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Then you end up with $30M on you blue line and no cap room to pay for forwards.

All them Cups the Preds have.

Rolling in them Cups.

Nashville's a great team, do you retract your sarcasm if they win the cup this season?

The cap hits for their Dmen are:
9M
4M
3.75M
2.5M
1.25M
.675M
.675M
.65M

So not sure where you're getting your 30M on the blue line figure but I'd review your sources.

Nashville also has plenty of cap room, almost 8M to be precise.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Drafting defense is much less of a guarantee than forwards. A Dman drafted top 5 doesnt have too much of a better chance than a Dman drafted in the 2nd round.

Really ?
Wow !

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

who is a good example of that ?
any recent players ?

The Blackhawks have done is several times. Off the top of my head, the most recent being Saad in '16.

 

[LeafFever]

What was the last defense 1st team that won a Cup?

I keep hearing defense wins championships. I am not seeing that at all.

 

[I am Canadian]

I don't think Leafs management planned for them to be as competetive as they were in Matthews first season.

I bet they were planning on taking a defenseman high (top 10) in the 2017 draft

 

[Jack Bauer]

I don't think Leafs management planned for them to be as competetive as they were in Matthews first season.

I bet they were planning on taking a defenseman high (top 10) in the 2017 draft

Yeah they were probably hoping that if they struggled they could get a highly touted D prospect like Liljegren