A defense first rebuild keeps salaries down

[HamiltonNHL]

Seems like the Leafs run and gun, lotsa goals for and against just drives salaries up.

If you build from the net outwards you keep salaries down ?

points are too much a factor in contract negotiations. Shouldn't players be paid for how they contribute to the whole team ?

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[Warden of the North]

What was the last defense 1st team that won a Cup?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

What was the last defense 1st team that won a Cup?

I'm talking about getting Your blue line drafted first, not only the blue line.

the order. not the result.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

For instance if we play run and gun for another year, Matthews and Marner will make huge money and we have cap issues.

if your rebuild is D first you have much less points-driven salary problems.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Seems like the Leafs run and gun, lotsa goals for and against just drives salaries up.

If you build from the net outwards you keep salaries down ?

points are too much a factor in contract negotiations. Shouldn't players be paid for how they contribute to the whole team ?

This isn't 10 years ago. The new NHL is offence first.

Also, Philly thought they had a bunch of defence studs, turns out they don't.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Elite Dmen typically play more minutes and get paid less than elite forwards which may mean that you get more bang for the buck from elite Dmen than elite forwards. Because in the cap era, bang for the buck is key to winning cups, prioritizing elite Dmen over elite forwards may be a wise policy.

I zeroed in on elite because it's the most obvious example but this may well be true going down the salary scale.

 

[Al14]

For instance if we play run and gun for another year, Matthews and Marner will make huge money and we have cap issues.

if your rebuild is D first you have much less points-driven salary problems.

So. let me understand this theory. You are saying we should have drafted D-men instead of Nylander, Marner, and Matthews?

For the most part, you always draft the best player available when it's your turn at the podium. If you draft by team needs, you run the risk of skipping over some great players.

Looking back, and knowing what they know today, maybe our management team drafts Chabot instead of Nylander.

 

[Warden of the North]

I'm talking about getting Your blue line drafted first, not only the blue line.

the order. not the result.

You build your team with the best pieces you can get, regardless of position.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You are saying we should have drafted D-men instead of Nylander, Marner, and Matthews?

It doesn't apply to one team.

Of course you take Matthews.

 

[razkaz]

I'm pretty sure fwds negotiate contracts on how much they score. I highly doubt defensemen and goalies have the same strategy. I donm't think Subban, Doughty and Price pointed towards their point totals when negotiating their contracts.

It's up to the management to figure out who is actually an impact player and who is riding the coattails of someone else.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You build your team with the best pieces you can get, regardless of position.

But if that is constantly forwards does it drive up salaries ?

it seems that Nylander's slow back checking isn't brought up a lot in contract negotiations. Just his 60 points.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Drafting defense would have solved our financial woes, who would have thought. Interesting.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Keeps wins down as well.

 

[Brobust]

I guess it's time to start again then.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Laugh all you like but I think it's interesting. If you sort players by cap hit, there's not one Dman in the top 10 and there's just one in the top 20. I'm not saying that's enough to draw any conclusions but it's definitely worth thinking about. Unless it's clear that there's only Dman among the top 20 players in the NHL, then fine I guess.

 

[al secord]

Maybe the Penguins will get it right next time around.

 

[Buds17]

The method might work in keeping a team's cap situation more in check, but does it result in a winning team? If not, the problem isn't being solved, it's just being shifted. Cup over cap.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I agree that points are still too much of a determining factor. And I also agree with the general idea that great talent on defense gets cheaper than on forward. The problem is just how do you use it? Draft d-men first, OP suggested. What you get then is perhaps an extended first window, but you'll still end up paying those forwards. Besides, you start drafting for position which historically have been a terrible idea.

Maybe not a popular opinion here, but from what I've gathered, great defense can't drive decent offense very well. But the other way around works terrifically. One of the reasons why I really support the way our team is built. Get great forwards and they can have a tremendous impact on the game, and the defense can get by if they can skate, are reliable, and can deliver a decent outlet pass. When the "decent" part is about turning offensive chances to goals, the results aren't as good.

From what I've understood, the cases made around contract negotiations continue to get better. I can't see how Willy camp is reaching for Draisaitl comparisons unless they go heavily into contextualized metrics and micro stats, for example.

It seems that Nylander's slow back checking isn't brought up a lot in contract negotiations. Just his 60 points.

That's because he isn't a slow backchecker.

Check my posts from early last season. I went into who was our most frequent backcheckers. It was in large part our best skaters, who could get back to cover up the third attacker much more quickly. Nylander and Marner were all among our most frequently involved players on the backcheck, for example.

But I get your point. I would just frame it like: "Why does his points drive negotiations so much when his in-zone defense is so lacking?"

The answer to that probably is about rarity. Getting someone who can put up 60 points without huge minutes is very rare, so it costs. Of course, getting someone who can do that while still a reliable two-way player is even more rare.

 

[ToneDog]

Should have traded our stud forwards last summer and tanked for Dahlin. Seriously who cares at this point ? This ship has sailed and it is not returning for a long time.

 

[Walshy7]

Seems like the Leafs run and gun, lotsa goals for and against just drives salaries up.

If you build from the net outwards you keep salaries down ?

points are too much a factor in contract negotiations. Shouldn't players be paid for how they contribute to the whole team ?

yep should of passed on Matthews for sergachev
should of passed on Marner for Hanafin
Should of passed on nylander for Julius Honka

we would be in such a better position cap wise for sure

 

[Gallagbi]

For instance if we play run and gun for another year, Matthews and Marner will make huge money and we have cap issues.

if your rebuild is D first you have much less points-driven salary problems.

Don't you improve enough to escape the basement, but lack high end offensive talent which puts you in middle of the pack territory? Wasn't the whole point of a tank style rebuild to get top tier offensive talent?

 

[Jmo89]

I'm talking about getting Your blue line drafted first, not only the blue line.

the order. not the result.

To be fair, Rielly was drafted before Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. And he's signed to a nice contract.

Unfortunately teams can't choose who is in the draft, just who they pick.

When Nylander was taken the team had very little offensive talent. Also the next dman after him was Honka at 14 I think.

There was no dman close to Matthews. The only one they could have gone D for was Marner. At this point I prefer Marner over Hanifin and Provorov.

In a perfect world Percy or someone like Finn would have turned into a solid dman.

It looks like we've got Dermott as a top 4 guy though who will be cheap for a few years, Lil looks good too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think Dmen might be undervalued/underpaid and if this is true, there is surely some way to factor this into our decision making process. Saying the Dmen should be drafted first would be almost certainly wrong though, always drafting the BPA seems obvious.

 

[LeafFever]

Our coach actually keeps the offensive numbers down through low ice-time.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Laugh all you like but I think it's interesting. If you sort players by cap hit, there's not one Dman in the top 10 and there's just one in the top 20. I'm not saying that's enough to draw any conclusions but it's definitely worth thinking about. Unless it's clear that there's only Dman among the top 20 players in the NHL, then fine I guess.

I mean that is all going to change very soon. Doughty will be in the top 3 when his new contract kicks in I think. Then you will see EK sign another top 5 contract.

Guessing Subban is the current highest paid defender? But ya it is interesting, also interesting how defenders who often get paid the most put up the most points.