A defense first rebuild keeps salaries down

[BertCorbeau]

Drafting by positional need or preference is not a smart approach.

If you’re building a team from scratch in an ideal world you can start with the defence but in the real world the players available doesn’t make that work all the time.

Who would you take over Nylander at #8 right.now? That first round looks weak for D

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

What was the last defense 1st team that won a Cup?

The Kings in '12 and the Bruins in '11.

You build your team with the best pieces you can get, regardless of position.

This is absolutely correct.

But if that is constantly forwards does it drive up salaries ?

it seems that Nylander's slow back checking isn't brought up a lot in contract negotiations. Just his 60 points.

This is an odd response. Yes, in theory, offensive numbers drive salaries upward because salaries are principally based on quant statistics. Your hypothesis works best as just that, a hypothesis.

As Warden stated, it is something that is rarely executable in real life.

Its the same with building an NFL roster: in theory, a wise GM drafts and establishes his O-Line, then his QB, then his Defensive line, and works outward from there. The draft, and draft position, do not allow this to always be executed. Good QB's are rare, so when one becomes available, you may skip taking the LT that you probably should get.

There can be a blueprint, but there's also scarcity (of good defensemen, and good players in general), and competition for said scarce assets.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I mean that is all going to change very soon. Doughty will be in the top 3 when his new contract kicks in I think. Then you will see EK sign another top 5 contract.

Guessing Subban is the current highest paid defender? But ya it is interesting, also interesting how defenders who often get paid the most put up the most points.

As it stands now, Doughty will be tied for 2nd with Tavares and yes, Subban is the highest paid.

And I freely admit that I did cherry pick the top 20 cap hits (the 20-30 range has a number of Dmen). I still think this is an interesting topic for study. I'm not sure how exactly to go about it but if I'm Dubas, I'm putting some analytic guys on the job for sure, I really think there might be something there.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

As it stands now, Doughty will be tied for 2nd with Tavares and yes, Subban is the highest paid.

And I freely admit that I did cherry pick the top 20 cap hits (the 20-30 range has a number of Dmen). I still think this is an interesting topic for study. I'm not sure how exactly to go about it but if I'm Dubas, I'm putting some analytic guys on the job for sure, I really think there might be something there.

I would be interested in how many in the top 10 or top 20 are centers? I think elite centers win cups and the salary usually backs that up. However it does seem defenders are underpaid during their RFA years so maybe in the future Dubas offersheeting a young defender? Probably wouldn't have to give up much picks and if they are on a crappy team I'm sure the player will sign.

 

[Trapper]

Drafting by positional need or preference is not a smart approach.

If you’re building a team from scratch in an ideal world you can start with the defence but in the real world the players available doesn’t make that work all the time.

Who would you take over Nylander at #8 right.now? That first round looks weak for D

Agreed. You take the best players you have ranked when available in the draft. Regardless of position.
That's why the NHL allows trades. When you stock heavily in one area and are weak in another, you move from strength to bolster the lineup.

 

[Myopic]

In the first round of the draft, you take the best player available. You don't reach for a d-man just because of your theoretical method of building a team. I also think it's easier to identify (and project) good forwards as opposed to d-men after the first round. Drafting d-men is often a crapshoot and they take longer to develop.

 

[Tak7]

You draft best player available.

Nylander
Marner
Matthews

There weren't "better Dmen" available that the team skipped out on.

 

[IPS]

A defense-first rebuild eh? Sounds incredible. I mean how are the Carolina Hurricanes doing?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Would salaries be kept down if a team used a more defend first approach?

 

[Stephen]

At the same time, a defense first rebuild/program like Nashville/St. Louis struggles for years finding the right balance of scoring, and they always seem to be beat by the expensive scoring teams like Chicago.

 

[Gallagbi]

Would salaries be kept down if a team used a more defend first approach?

Depends on the defender and how good the team is. You're generally paying less for bad players.

 

[Frelimo]

Rielly was drafted before Matthews and co.

 

[Myopic]

Rielly was drafted before Matthews and co.

Rielly was a Burke draft pick and not part of the Shanahan rebuild technically speaking. He is definitely a foundational piece, however.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I would be interested in how many in the top 10 or top 20 are centers? I think elite centers win cups and the salary usually backs that up. However it does seem defenders are underpaid during their RFA years so maybe in the future Dubas offersheeting a young defender? Probably wouldn't have to give up much picks and if they are on a crappy team I'm sure the player will sign.

There are a lot more centres than wingers making top salaries, I think that's mostly due to the fact that growing up, the best forwards play centre and that just continues throughout their career. I don't buy into the centres are more valuable theory as much as some other people, Ovechkin is an obvious example that comes to mind. Kane's more valuable than Toews as well.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

There are a lot more centres than wingers making top salaries, I think that's mostly due to the fact that growing up, the best forwards play centre and that just continues throughout their career. I don't buy into the centres are more valuable theory as much as some other people, Ovechkin is an obvious example that comes to mind. Kane's more valuable than Toews as well.

I agree that there are exceptions to the rule (Kane, Kucherov, Ovie etc) but centers are often the best player on the team as well as being the highest paid. It is just the most important position to on ice success other than perhaps goalies who have also been underpaid for a long time.

I think it could also basically be as simple as the players putting up the stats or highlights they can talk about on TSN can paid the most lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree that there are exceptions to the rule (Kane, Kucherov, Ovie etc) but centers are often the best player on the team as well as being the highest paid. It is just the most important position to on ice success other than perhaps goalies who have also been underpaid for a long time.

I think it could also basically be as simple as the players putting up the stats or highlights they can talk about on TSN can paid the most lol.

OK let's leave aside the centre vs winger discussion for the moment and consider where Dmen fit in.

For reference, here's the site I was looking at. And I made a mistake earlier, there is another Dman in the top 20, in fact of the 3 players tied for 20th, two are Dmen.

NHL Rankings

Among the top 22 players on this list, there are 2 goalies, 3 Dmen (two of them tied for 20th and 17 are forwards.

Are forwards really that much more valuable than Dmen or are Dmen underpaid? I don't know the answer but I do think it's an interesting question.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

The Leafs star players certainly dont have inflated stats through the previous two seasons, I would be surprised if they do by the end of this year. Historically they don't really play run and gun after October and with the whole limited ice time(for all the twenty year olds who need more rest then any other star players in the league, but none for Hainsey or Andy) thing I doubt any of them end up with point totals significantly higher here than they would elsewhere.(barring an insane powerplay year, which is possible but has nothing to do with "run and gun")

 

[Ziggdiezan]

OK let's leave aside the centre vs winger discussion for the moment and consider where Dmen fit in.

For reference, here's the site I was looking at. And I made a mistake earlier, there is another Dman in the top 20, in fact of the 3 players tied for 20th, two are Dmen.

NHL Rankings

Among the top 22 players on this list, there are 2 goalies, 3 Dmen (two of them tied for 20th and 17 are forwards.

Are forwards really that much more valuable than Dmen or are Dmen underpaid? I don't know the answer but I do think it's an interesting question.

Oh I agree with your point completely, defenders are most certainly underpaid.

It is oddly like this in every sport. Players are paid for goals or assists and forward put up more so they have been paid more. It is certainly very odd it hasnt changed as defender often have just as much on ice impact but I think it will change with Doughty and EK new contracts.

What will interest me will be if Dahlin plays lights out before his ELC will he get one of these monster 8 year 10+ million dollar deals franchise players are getting?

 

[Kazparov]

You build your team with the best pieces you can get, regardless of position.

This ^

Plus the draft can be a crap shoot. Just because you pick a guy doesn't mean he turns out

 

[kk87]

Best way to keep salaries down is to draft exclusively depth players instead of elite point producers. Opportunity missed

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

it's so weird that some fans want a more boring & less talented team because it keeps salaries down

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This isn't 10 years ago. The new NHL is offence first.

Also, Philly thought they had a bunch of defence studs, turns out they don't.

Yeah I'd hold up on that prediction if I were you

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Drafting and retaining your own players if they're really good is what keeps salaries down. Free agency drives it up no matter what the position.

 

[member 262271]

Also makes the game of hockey near unwatchable.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I'm talking about getting Your blue line drafted first, not only the blue line.

the order. not the result.

Thats what we did lmao, we drafted rielly first, got gards ina trade both make 9 million. So 2015 comes do you suggest we dont draft marner? I take marner over hannifin, werenski,povorov ( maybe, this one is close) and then in 2016 do we trade down to get d? Leave a generational talent on the board for someone else? Like do people actually think? Thats whats alarming is they do, their mimds actually come up with this.

You need to put the pieces on the board when they become available, you ront have the luxury to put really important pieces back in the box because they dont fit what youre trying to do at the moment. Its just really crazy to suggest