Post-Game Talk: #82 | Hurricanes 4 at FLYERS 3 (SO, won 2-1) | Sun., April 9, 2017

[Magua]

My favorite ever draft argument on here was when we got 29 from Tampa and there were pages of posts about how no one good ever gets drafted at 29.

Of course that's stupid......but 29 hasn't been a very good pick in recent years, so good thing we didn't pick at 29!

 

[Rebels57]

What he is saying is that it's obnoxious to complain about people cheering for us to lose as if we are all bad fans, when it's a meaningless game at a meaningless point of the season and we would benefit more from a better draft pick than we would from winning one meaningless game.

This.

Anyone wanting a Loss today did so because future success is more important to them than the instant gratification of a meaningless game.

 

[Curufinwe]

Del Zotto is another player whose struggles I personally feel Hak is partially responsible for.

He was effectively the Flyers 1D until his injury last season.

So when he was good last season that had nothing to do either coach, and when he was all over the place this season that was the coach's fault? How convenient.

And of course MDZ has never had yo-yo seasons on other NHL teams. This was a brand new phenomenon.

 

[Hurricane28]

Literally not one single person in here was expecting that.

It seems like it since some seem very disappointed they are draft 3 spots later.

 

[Tripod]

Remember last years draft, when lots were hoping Bellows fell to us. Then he did! Then Hextall dropped 4 spots in the draft and still got who HE wanted.

Good times.

I wanted the lose so we had more guys from Hextall to choose from. I still have faith he will grab do fine good with our pick and there will be a faller or 2 come draft day.

 

[Lotusflower]

The first season in the Giroux era where we finished worse than what I predicted.

Sad and concerning, but here's to a productive offseason and hopefully a bounce back 17-18.

Hopefully this season was a long, hard lesson for Hak/Hex and shakes them awake to what the team really needs.

 

[eramosat]

here's a great link to see where one smart and reliable guy tried to measure the actual difference between drafting #8 and drafting #11...or any other spot in round 1...plus all the other rounds.

http://www2.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/story/?id=455673

draw your own conclusions.

mine would be that getting worked up at not seizing a tank opportunity (whatever the hell that means) to move up one spot from #11 to #10 is kinda pointless. to get from say #6 into top 3? absolutely maybe. but not in any other situations.

very interesting stuff.

 

[Grare]

What he is saying is that it's obnoxious to complain about people cheering for us to lose as if we are all bad fans, when it's a meaningless game at a meaningless point of the season and we would benefit more from a better draft pick than we would from winning one meaningless game.

Thank you for interpreting.

I'm not complaining. More so laughing at the fact that people would choose to waste hours of their night watching their favorite teams last game of the season and hoping or "cheering" for them to lose

Just my opinion, carry on

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It makes more sent to discuss these guys in terms of tiers rather than picks. The relative difference in values of 10 and 13 fluctuate wildly depending on whether you have 6 or 9 forwards on the second tier if we're assuming a top tier 2 forwards deep.

 

[bennysflyers16]

This.

Anyone wanting a Loss today did so because future success is more important to them than the instant gratification of a meaningless game.

Everyone here wanted a loss , some just think it is bigger than it most likely is.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't care if they win or lose. It just doesn't matter in the end. We'll still get to the Finals someday, and Calgary will beat us to start a dynasty. That's Flyers Hockey.

 

[BillDineen]

Idiots couldn't even lose right. 1/14 chance of a top 3 pick instead of 1/7. 13th pick.

Hagg looked incredible. Very strong game.
**** you Weise. Half decent when it means nothing.

 

[Rebels57]

So when he was good last season that had nothing to do either coach, and when he was all over the place this season that was the coach's fault? How convenient.

And of course MDZ has never had yo-yo seasons on other NHL teams. This was a brand new phenomenon.

So do you agree with benching him 5 games after coming back from a long-term injury after how well he played last season?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I don't care if they win or lose. It just doesn't matter in the end. We'll still get to the Finals someday, and Calgary will beat us to start a dynasty. That's Flyers Hockey.

Well, here's the thing. After an interminable wait:

Larry Robinson retired
Bossy and Trottier and ****ing Potvin retired
Gretzky and ****ing Messier retired. As did ****ing Tikkanen
As did Brodeur, Stevens and Niedermayer.

We live and breathe in hope that someday it will be different for us.
We don't have a choice.*

* I don't actually own a toaster.

 

[whitstifier]

Talking about draft history, can you compile me a list of who you would consider true 1C's over the last decade+ and where they were selected in the draft?

Generally top 5. You could argue that pick 10 allows better lottery odds, but there have been good to great C picks in the mid to late first and well after.

 

[Striiker]

Of course in hind sight it can matter, it also makes no difference if you trust your GM and scouts.

I trust the GM and scouts, but there's nothing they can do if their target goes 10th-12th.

On paper it does....but then why did Hextall drop down 4 spots last year at the draft?

Maybe because in real life, it might not matter. It could go either way.

We traded up to get Konecny. We all loved the move. But we could have stayed put and grabbed Aho.

Again, it can go either way. I wanted the better pick to try and increase our chances of getting a better player. But who knows how it ends up.

And your Giroux example is laughable. The 3 picks before him were Mitera, Fischer and Sanguinetti. So did it matter for those teams getting a higher pick than us? Nope. You just proved that you just need to pick the right guy.

Hextall was confident the guy he wanted would still be there, but he still had the option to make that move. If he's picking later then he probably doesn't make that move and pick up that extra pick. Maybe if we had the 10th pick Hextall would trade back to 13th... but now that option is off the table.

And I'm not talking about picking 3 spots higher than where Giroux was drafted, I'm saying think about if we picked 25th instead of 22nd and missed out on Giroux. If you have bad drafting you have bad drafting, but a team with good drafting could be screwed over by the guy they want being snagged right before they have the chance to take him.

My entire point is that it gives us less options, not that it's the end of the world or we can't get a good player now. Just that we are more restricted, even if only slightly.

 

[Rebels57]

Im already over it. We will get a damn fine prospect 13th overall.

Time to focus on not re-signing VandeVelde. Followed by the Expansion draft.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Literally not one person said this. We're not players and we have no control over them; we're fans. What we want and what they want aren't necessarily the same.

Some people felt that the best thing the team could do for the future was lose. A loss today for a win tomorrow. Some people feel several picks difference doesn't matter. That's all. No one expected the players to not try to win. Did they try to not win 40 times this year?

I get that. I would have preferred they lose too. But all of the *****ing and moaning about it implies someone should have done something differently to not pick up the point, I.e. tank the game.

If not that, then what is all the carrying on about?

 

[BillDineen]

Top 3 % difference is the most meaningful part of it.

Most people don't seem to understand probability (if you think polls were wrong because Trump won, you are one of them).

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I get that. I would have preferred they lose too. But all of the *****ing and moaning about it implies someone should have done something differently to not pick up the point, I.e. tank the game.

If not that, then what is all the carrying on about?

It's just people expressing disappointment - it's natural.
The underlying issue is what Bernie said a few pages back - that they didn't do this when it mattered.

 

[BernieParent]

Thank you for interpreting.

I'm not complaining. More so laughing at the fact that people would choose to waste hours of their night watching their favorite teams last game of the season and hoping or "cheering" for them to lose

Just my opinion, carry on

In my state of frustration, I kept myself from posting pictures of unicorns with rainbows flying out of their rear ends and other cynical responses, because I know I'm feeling quite prickly. I wasted 0 time watching this game. I hate actively cheering against the Flyers, and the few games I caught in the latter part of the season, I found myself illogically hoping they would win. Such is the life of a fan. However, the season allowed me to pretty easily divorce myself from my usual scoreboard watching and hoping for wins on the whole because they were without value.

It's painful to say but the consolation prize for a failed season is the prospect of improving the club's personnel. That is how the draft is structured, and it is the tow-haired stepchild of leagues promoting parity. Basic mathematics indicate that the higher you pick, the more choice you have and the more flexibility to choose the player whom your scouts believe has the brightest future.

What do you make of a professional sports franchise that repeatedly wilts under the pressure of contention for advancement to the playoffs, yet finds their legs when the pressure is off? I own up to the pettiness of not wanting the players to feel any relief after spending most of the season playing mediocre level hockey and I do not care at all about individual stats and accolades.

Detached objectivism says that a loss would have increased the chance of this team's future prospects. Maybe they pick wisely, maybe not. I fully agree with Jojo's point that considering tiers in draft classes is as important as individual picks. Three slots is a lot of real estate to relinquish to one's opponents.

 

[Striiker]

My favorite ever draft argument on here was when we got 29 from Tampa and there were pages of posts about how no one good ever gets drafted at 29.

I believe a certain poster (you can probably guess who) kept going on about how it was "basically a second round pick" and nothing to be happy about.

 

[eramosat]

Top 3 % difference is the most meaningful part of it.

Most people don't seem to understand probability (if you think polls were wrong because Trump won, you are one of them).

Hey, if you can rationalize to Wayne Simmonds why you have to lose the 82nd game of the season to move from a 2.4% chance of landing a Top 3 pick to a 3.4% chance, then go for it! I don't think it's a question of probability...

 

[Magua]

I get that. I would have preferred they lose too. But all of the *****ing and moaning about it implies someone should have done something differently to not pick up the point, I.e. tank the game.

If not that, then what is all the carrying on about?

We told Striiker to just this once not use the bathroom all game long. And can you believe it? He did! 3 times! That's what we've been carrying on about.

 

[BillDineen]

Hey, if you can rationalize to Wayne Simmonds why you have to lose the 82nd game of the season to move from a 2.4% chance of landing a Top 3 pick to a 3.4% chance, then go for it! I don't think it's a question of probability...

I was never saying they should tank, just that it matters. The math is 14.4% of top 3 vs 7.2%.