Player Discussion #8 - Ben Chiarot: Swing Low, Sweet Chiarot

[RationalExpectations]

They changed the rule recently. The cap recapture cannot be more than his AAV but it will last longer.

Cool thanks for the info !

 

[RationalExpectations]

Danault is a decent 2C and a great 3C. He is charged with the task of shutting down the other teams top scorer night in and night out. He would produce more offence if he didn't spend so much of his ice time with Dzone starts and actually saw some exploitable matchups. That being said he centers a line that has consistently outscored the leagues top lines in head to head matchups and that is all that matters.

Chiarot is not slow and plays in a system where there are almost no transition outlets in the middle of the ice. He is absolutely a top 4 dman (more specifically a #4) who would look the part in a better system than the ultra conservative system that is currently being used. Ideally Weber's spot in the lineup would be held by a more traditional PMD but that is not Chiarot's fault

If Ben Chiarot is on your bottom pairing then you likely have an elite Dcorps but this fact does not make him a typical candidate for bottom pairing duties.

Agree to disagree. He has been great over the last games but was a liability this season, and as you say maybe it is only due to the fact that they are not complementary with Weber.

regarding Danault, I am curious as to what he could do playing with a Kaprizov or a Marner offensively.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Danault is a decent 2C and a great 3C. He is charged with the task of shutting down the other teams top scorer night in and night out. He would produce more offence if he didn't spend so much of his ice time with Dzone starts and actually saw some exploitable matchups. That being said he centers a line that has consistently outscored the leagues top lines in head to head matchups and that is all that matters.

Chiarot is not slow and plays in a system where there are almost no transition outlets in the middle of the ice. He is absolutely a top 4 dman (more specifically a #4) who would look the part in a better system than the ultra conservative system that is currently being used. Ideally Weber's spot in the lineup would be held by a more traditional PMD but that is not Chiarot's fault

If Ben Chiarot is on your bottom pairing then you likely have an elite Dcorps but this fact does not make him a typical candidate for bottom pairing duties.

I agree though you might be VERY SLIGHTLY overrating both. And I mean very slightly. The heart of what you're saying is right. Both were phenomenal with the chips down. Anyone saying different are in their echo chambers and let them be.

If Romanov was farther along and we had another more natural PMD we'd have a great D corps imo. There's really good pieces they're just not in their ideal fits.

 

[dcyhabs]

Chiarot is great in the playoffs where he can get away with more contact. He had a rough regular season.

The habs have too many D that aren't good handling the puck.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Chiarot Edmundson aren't priorities to retain. Easily replaceable

They were key players in upsetting Toronto. Absolutely key.

To manage the locker-room, Bergevin just has to talk with Francis, get assurances that they are not taking Weber, and instead of it being a negative, it will be seen within the team as a brilliant team-building move.

The most easily replaceable of Edmundson, Chiarot and Allen is Allen. Yes, we had troubles with backups before, but we were spending $1M, not $3M on them. You can find decent guys for $3M.

 

[Miller Time]

They were key players in upsetting Toronto. Absolutely key.

To manage the locker-room, Bergevin just has to talk with Francis, get assurances that they are not taking Weber, and instead of it being a negative, it will be seen within the team as a brilliant team-building move.

The most easily replaceable of Edmundson, Chiarot and Allen is Allen. Yes, we had troubles with backups before, but we were spending $1M, not $3M on them. You can find decent guys for $3M.

Key to Price cementing his legacy as a HOF great? Sure.

Chiarot key to winning series because his hit on Tavares accidentally led to Tavares going down? Sure.

That's about it. Contributing nothing offensively while being negatives in shot suppression, puck possession and zone exits are not qualities difficult to replace.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Key to Price cementing his legacy as a HOF great? Sure.

Chiarot key to winning series because his hit on Tavares accidentally led to Tavares going down? Sure.

That's about it. Contributing nothing offensively while being negatives in shot suppression, puck possession and zone exits are not qualities difficult to replace.

The people who play in and comment on the NHL do not agree with you.

Of course his metrics are not great when he is contantly palying against top players, but in the end those players did not score much, and Chiarot was very, very strong on the PK.

That being said, surely you don't think Seattle will take Weber if he is exposed, do you?

 

[Miller Time]

The people who play in and comment on the NHL do not agree with you.

Of course his metrics are not great when he is contantly palying against top players, but in the end those players did not score much, and Chiarot was very, very strong on the PK.

That being said, surely you don't think Seattle will take Weber if he is exposed, do you?

Right... You mean the same ppl from which not one predicted the series win?

Appealing to perceived authority does little to support your argument... Undermines it moreso.

Players can & do play poorly and get rewarded. Especially in a short/small sample size. Chiarot was a liability on the ice, fortunately his HOF goalie backed him up. Mistaking that for quality or impactful play is a recipe for poor roster decisions... A regular occurrence by our GM, who has a wealth of playing and management experience.

 

[Archijerej]

Chiarot is better with the puck than people on this board give him credit for, unfortunately his ambition to demonstrate this is hindered by the creativity void instilled by Ducharme's system. I am personally hoping that Ducharme has simply managed to establish a framework for defensive responsibilities and will allow the system to evolve into a more fluid 200 foot system........not holding my breath on that one though.

I think this will definitely happen with a full training camp and some modifications to the roster. After all it was Ducharme who helped to implement a system that saw us breaking out through the middle consistently.

What he's been doing this season was clearly crisis management.

 

[le_sean]

They were key players in upsetting Toronto. Absolutely key.

To manage the locker-room, Bergevin just has to talk with Francis, get assurances that they are not taking Weber, and instead of it being a negative, it will be seen within the team as a brilliant team-building move.

The most easily replaceable of Edmundson, Chiarot and Allen is Allen. Yes, we had troubles with backups before, but we were spending $1M, not $3M on them. You can find decent guys for $3M.

Team building? The team would be better with $8m of cap space and Weber gone. Send that $8m to Dougie Hamilton and all of a sudden they become legit.

 

[tazsub3]

Key to Price cementing his legacy as a HOF great? Sure.

Chiarot key to winning series because his hit on Tavares accidentally led to Tavares going down? Sure.

That's about it. Contributing nothing offensively while being negatives in shot suppression, puck possession and zone exits are not qualities difficult to replace.

Perfect measure him through analytics , you see how far that lead the leafs and oilers. lol
I shit on him all season, but he was a warrior in that first round. Even I cant deny him that.

 

[MadMslm]

Can’t see how anyone can hate on the guy.

He does make some mistakes and give the puck over and I know people don’t like when he goes up and his shot doesn’t connect, but that guy is a warrior. Big defensemen who will hit and make the players pay the price.

He’s the guy who played the most minutes against Matthews by far. And yeah Price made some big saves but in the end Matthews didn’t have much success with Chiarot there.

You won’t catch me hating on him or any of the other top 4. It’s clear 3 of those have some injuries and they still are coming up in a huge way for this team.

Props to them.

 

[LaP]

Agree to disagree. He has been great over the last games but was a liability this season, and as you say maybe it is only due to the fact that they are not complementary with Weber.

regarding Danault, I am curious as to what he could do playing with a Kaprizov or a Marner offensively.

He had a pretty rough season imo. I would not hesitate one sec to expose him.

 

[nilan30]

Can’t see how anyone can hate on the guy.

He does make some mistakes and give the puck over and I know people don’t like when he goes up and his shot doesn’t connect, but that guy is a warrior. Big defensemen who will hit and make the players pay the price.

He’s the guy who played the most minutes against Matthews by far. And yeah Price made some big saves but in the end Matthews didn’t have much success with Chiarot there.

You won’t catch me hating on him or any of the other top 4. It’s clear 3 of those have some injuries and they still are coming up in a huge way for this team.

Props to them.

One underrated skill is he actually skates well with the puck. I don't mean fast or while dangling but he is actually pretty good at ragging the puck and bringing it into the o-zone and buying time for teammates to change or get open or whatever,

 

[LaP]

They were key players in upsetting Toronto. Absolutely key.

To manage the locker-room, Bergevin just has to talk with Francis, get assurances that they are not taking Weber, and instead of it being a negative, it will be seen within the team as a brilliant team-building move.

The most easily replaceable of Edmundson, Chiarot and Allen is Allen. Yes, we had troubles with backups before, but we were spending $1M, not $3M on them. You can find decent guys for $3M.

There's no reality where Chiarot was a key player in eliminating Toronto. Granted i did not watch the first game but he certainly was not a key player in the 6 other games. He was a liability all season long.

 

[CAUFIELD]

There's no reality where Chiarot was a key player in eliminating Toronto. Granted i did not watch the first game but he certainly was not a key player in the 6 other games. He was a liability all season long.

Cut the crap seriously

he is a #4 D paid like a #4 D

Physical, Nasty, good mobility. Not good bringing offense .

you want him to play like Hedman?? We wonder after why players want out of MTL; because of delusional fan like you

 

[LaP]

Cut the crap seriously

he is a #4 D paid like a #4 D

Physical, Nasty, good mobility. Not good bringing offense .

you want him to play like Hedman?? We wonder after why players want out of MTL; because of delusional fan like you

We are definitely not watching the same games.

 

[CAUFIELD]

We are definitely not watching the same games.

You think a D playing 25+ minutes against the best players of the league won’t make mistakes sometimes??

 

[jokesondee]

As a Jets fan i can say the vast majority of us would love to have Chiarot back. He was a victim of our cap situation at the time and i know the team didnt want to lose him. He'll make the odd boneheaded play now and again but he plays a heavy game and his pros for sure outweigh his cons. We'll even give you something called a Forbort for him!

 

[RationalExpectations]

Cut the crap seriously

he is a #4 D paid like a #4 D

Physical, Nasty, good mobility. Not good bringing offense .

you want him to play like Hedman?? We wonder after why players want out of MTL; because of delusional fan like you

Come on, the Weber Chiarot pairing has been a disaster all regular season. With Edmunson and Chiarot you have twice the same players but they can t move the puck, actually almost three times with Weber without his shot. I am not sure where you see mobility in his game.

that has worked great against TOR and I hope as a fan it works again vs WPG, however, how many teams have won the cup with 0 puck moving Dman ? It is not Chiarot s fault, he is who he is and I like this type of player but you need a player to complement him.

MTL has won a series and now Chiarot cannot be replaced, typical

 

[azcanuck]

Chiarot is great in the playoffs where he can get away with more contact. He had a rough regular season.

The habs have too many D that aren't good handling the puck.

He hasnt been great by any stretch. He eats a lot of minutes but his ass has been saved by Price too many times.
His analytics are awful. (36% in expected goals percentage, compare that to Edmundson at 53)

 

[Miller Time]

Perfect measure him through analytics , you see how far that lead the leafs and oilers. lol
I shit on him all season, but he was a warrior in that first round. Even I cant deny him that.

warrior, sure, fully agree with that.

effective? not at all... the stats tell the clear story, as does the eye-test. That Price played superman and kept the puck out of the net doesn't make the weak performance by the dmen in front of him any better, just like the weak goal Campbell gave up to Gally doesn't reflect the play of the laffs dman that kept him to the outside and gave up the perimeter shot from distance.

i don't even know why this is contentious at all. If the habs lose game 5 or 6, both OT games that one bounce could have ended the series in the laffs favour, does that make all the statistical evidence (and eye- test evidence) all of a sudden proof of poor play in your mind? what a ridiculous notion.

there is always a gap between performance and outcome... sometimes a favourable one (as we experienced vs the leafs), sometimes an unfavourable one (as the leafs experienced vs us)... an analysis or take that is solely based on hindsight and uses the outcome to go back and re-imagine the performance is about as useful as a sport almanac without a delorian

 

[azcanuck]

As a Jets fan i can say the vast majority of us would love to have Chiarot back. He was a victim of our cap situation at the time and i know the team didnt want to lose him. He'll make the odd boneheaded play now and again but he plays a heavy game and his pros for sure outweigh his cons. We'll even give you something called a Forbort for him!

How come I watched almost every Jets/Canadiens game and dont know the name Forbort (i looked him up and he plays a fair amount)

 

[Do or Die]

As a Jets fan i can say the vast majority of us would love to have Chiarot back. He was a victim of our cap situation at the time and i know the team didnt want to lose him. He'll make the odd boneheaded play now and again but he plays a heavy game and his pros for sure outweigh his cons. We'll even give you something called a Forbort for him!

But wait! If you call in the next 30 minutes, we will even thrown in Nathan Beaulieu !

 

[jokesondee]

How come I watched almost every Jets/Canadiens game and dont know the name Forbort (i looked him up and he plays a fair amount)

Well i hope you dont hear his name this series either cause it means he's playing good! He doesnt really do anything well so the only time you hear his name is when he's made an egregious error. He's basically just there to hang back and let Pionk do his thing.