Player Discussion #8 - Ben Chiarot: Swing Low, Sweet Chiarot

[CAUFIELD]

Come on, the Weber Chiarot pairing has been a disaster all regular season. With Edmunson and Chiarot you have twice the same players but they can t move the puck, actually almost three times with Weber without his shot. I am not sure where you see mobility in his game.

that has worked great against TOR and I hope as a fan it works again vs WPG, however, how many teams have won the cup with 0 puck moving Dman ? It is not Chiarot s fault, he is who he is and I like this type of player but you need a player to complement him.

MTL has won a series and now Chiarot cannot be replaced, typical

If a player winning 7,8m$ brings the same than a limited D earning 3,5m$...

What I wanted to say, is that Chariot wasn’t the problem on that line. It’s Weber declining this year.

indeed , we are missing a PMD badly and Chariot would look way better playing with that PMD

 

[Miller Time]

Can’t see how anyone can hate on the guy.

He does make some mistakes and give the puck over and I know people don’t like when he goes up and his shot doesn’t connect, but that guy is a warrior. Big defensemen who will hit and make the players pay the price.

He’s the guy who played the most minutes against Matthews by far. And yeah Price made some big saves but in the end Matthews didn’t have much success with Chiarot there.

You won’t catch me hating on him or any of the other top 4. It’s clear 3 of those have some injuries and they still are coming up in a huge way for this team.

Props to them.

i don't know why pointing out his limitations needs to be considered "hating"...

You do realize that he played matthews a lot in the regular season as well, results weren't so flattering, were they?

Had we seen a legit reduction in Matthews opportunities... sure, praise the impact.
reality is that Matthews was just as, if not more, dangerous than he was in regular season (shots per game went up from 4 in the regular season to 5 in the series, and through at least 5 games, they were in the same high-quality % as his regular season numbers)... he just went cold and ran into a peak Price.

That's neither Chiarot's fault nor attributable to his play on him...

the guy played his arse off... no doubt. Competed hard and battled through a lot of pain. He gets full props and respect for grinding out minutes way above his ability level. And. he wasn't very effective. If anything, our best case scenario is that some other GM overinflates his effectiveness and offers us something way above his value this offseason!

 

[RationalExpectations]

If a player winning 7,8m$ brings the same than a limited D earning 3,5m$...

What I wanted to say, is that Chariot wasn’t the problem on that line. It’s Weber declining this year.

indeed , we are missing a PMD badly and Chariot would look way better playing with that PMD

oh sorry if I misunderstood, then we are aligned I guess

 

[MadMslm]

i don't know why pointing out his limitations needs to be considered "hating"...

You do realize that he played matthews a lot in the regular season as well, results weren't so flattering, were they?

Had we seen a legit reduction in Matthews opportunities... sure, praise the impact.
reality is that Matthews was just as, if not more, dangerous than he was in regular season (shots per game went up from 4 in the regular season to 5 in the series, and through at least 5 games, they were in the same high-quality % as his regular season numbers)... he just went cold and ran into a peak Price.

That's neither Chiarot's fault nor attributable to his play on him...

the guy played his arse off... no doubt. Competed hard and battled through a lot of pain. He gets full props and respect for grinding out minutes way above his ability level. And. he wasn't very effective. If anything, our best case scenario is that some other GM overinflates his effectiveness and offers us something way above his value this offseason!

Fair enough.

As I said in my post, Price made some big saves. He’s the player of that series and without him this ends in four games.

You have your opinion, and I get it. Chiarot and the rest of the top 4 doesn’t always look pretty and have their share of mistakes, but I will never see how this win can’t be attributable to the guy who played the most against Matthews (after Price obviously).

What we see from our living room, basement or bathrooms for some, is not always representative of what is happening on the ice. Things Chiarot do, that they look pretty or not, have an impact on other players on the ice that can’t be quantified by the eye.

I’m not telling you he’s a premier shut down defensemen and when he plays against top players in the league I dont expect him to come out on top. No one should, if you play 20 shifts against Mcdavid and he gets 1-2 on those shifts I won’t hold it against you because the 18-19 other shifts nothing went in.

I can see him have less success this series because of the Jets top 6 being bigger, stronger and harder to intimidate. Those guys are older and have more experience in this league. Even last year against big players against Flyers he was to put them down.

I won’t ask of more from a 4th D, when I go around and watch other teams there’s a lot of mistakes from the Ds all around the league that looks way worse.

 

[Miller Time]

I won’t ask of more from a 4th D, when I go around and watch other teams there’s a lot of mistakes from the Ds all around the league that looks way worse.

thing is, he was used as our #1B d this series (top pairing minutes, more ice time than weber in 2 of the 3 elimination games)... and he clearly wasn't up to the task (no fault of his own), but luckily the combo of Price's genius and Matthews/Marner going ice cold as shooters, allowed us to eek out a successful outcome despite not because of the level of play he was able to muster.

i fully agree, as a 4th d, he's a very solid player, and i fully agree that he did his best against Matthews...

i just don't attribute Matthews snakebitten shooting to the impact of Chiarot's play. As you said, for any dman going up against a player of that caliber, there's only so much you can expect. I didn't expect any more from Chiarot, I'm just not inclined to exaggerate his performance.

If it was his impact... the "little things" he did, as you suggest, that shut down Matthews productivity, than it would only be fair to suggest that he's among the, if not THE best shut down dman in the league.

That is not the case... or at least, that's not my assessment of his performance level.

 

[MadMslm]

thing is, he was used as our #1B d this series (top pairing minutes, more ice time than weber in 2 of the 3 elimination games)... and he clearly wasn't up to the task (no fault of his own), but luckily the combo of Price's genius and Matthews/Marner going ice cold as shooters, allowed us to eek out a successful outcome despite not because of the level of play he was able to muster.

i fully agree, as a 4th d, he's a very solid player, and i fully agree that he did his best against Matthews...

i just don't attribute Matthews snakebitten shooting to the impact of Chiarot's play. As you said, for any dman going up against a player of that caliber, there's only so much you can expect. I didn't expect any more from Chiarot, I'm just not inclined to exaggerate his performance.

If it was his impact... the "little things" he did, as you suggest, that shut down Matthews productivity, than it would only be fair to suggest that he's among the, if not THE best shut down dman in the league.

That is not the case... or at least, that's not my assessment of his performance level.

Feels like maybe you interpreted something wrong from my initial post here.

Matthews being shutdown is not Chiarot himself, far from it. It’s group effort that starts with Price, the top 4 and forwards.

What i’m saying here is Chiarot had the most minutes against Matthews by far. To not give him credit about Matthews being off the scoreboard is wrong in my eyes. Like Weber, Petry, Edmundson and Price should get credit for it. No one is saying Chiarot by himself took Matthews out, that would never happen. Yet he deserve full credit like the rest of those guys and more than others because of the sheer amount of time he spent on the ice against him.

You really think that Chiarot constant harassment of Matthews, always hitting him, crosschecking him, going to him after the whistle had nothing to do with Matthews or Marner doing more ? You think that Chiarot being in those guys face every second on the ice (even with giveaways and turnovers here and there) taking out space and time didn’t mess with those guys ability to create chances and score goals ?

I respect that from him, even when Matthews didn’t want anything to do with it, Chiarot was always dancing the legal line with him every single shift. At one point it was even embarrassing how much Chiarot wouldn’t stop. He put it has a mission in his head.

For me he, and others will get credit for that. As much as I dont like that coaching staff, they played him that much for a reason and im 100% sure that if you were behind that bench and saw how it is in their world you would have had Chiarot there playing the most minutes.

Yes Price, Price and Price I will always agree and I will never blame Price and what ever success this team get will always be Price. But you can’t just not give credit to the guy.

And I agree as a 4th he’s really good in that chair. Sadly it’s the NHL, go look around the league and you will see players playing places that is not exactly the fit for them but that’s a reality for every team.

 

[Miller Time]

Feels like maybe you interpreted something wrong from my initial post here.

Matthews being shutdown is not Chiarot himself, far from it. It’s group effort that starts with Price, the top 4 and forwards.

What i’m saying here is Chiarot had the most minutes against Matthews by far. To not give him credit about Matthews being off the scoreboard is wrong in my eyes. Like Weber, Petry, Edmundson and Price should get credit for it. No one is saying Chiarot by himself took Matthews out, that would never happen. Yet he deserve full credit like the rest of those guys and more than others because of the sheer amount of time he spent on the ice against him.

You really think that Chiarot constant harassment of Matthews, always hitting him, crosschecking him, going to him after the whistle had nothing to do with Matthews or Marner doing more ? You think that Chiarot being in those guys face every second on the ice (even with giveaways and turnovers here and there) taking out space and time didn’t mess with those guys ability to create chances and score goals ?

I respect that from him, even when Matthews didn’t want anything to do with it, Chiarot was always dancing the legal line with him every single shift. At one point it was even embarrassing how much Chiarot wouldn’t stop. He put it has a mission in his head.

For me he, and others will get credit for that. As much as I dont like that coaching staff, they played him that much for a reason and im 100% sure that if you were behind that bench and saw how it is in their world you would have had Chiarot there playing the most minutes.

Yes Price, Price and Price I will always agree and I will never blame Price and what ever success this team get will always be Price. But you can’t just not give credit to the guy.

And I agree as a 4th he’s really good in that chair. Sadly it’s the NHL, go look around the league and you will see players playing places that is not exactly the fit for them but that’s a reality for every team.

i understood what you meant, i just don't agree.

if he was affecting AM, we'd have seen signs of it in terms of Matthews play... we didn't. He was going to the same places, creating the same chances, and engaging in physical play as much or more than normal.

the only noticeable difference was that his shooting percentage went dramatically down despite generating chances from his typical areas... coinciding with the play of a HOF goalie at the top of his game.

the impact you seem to imply from Chiarot's play is noticeable in only 1 area... granted, the most important area, but given the entire context, the conclusion you draw i don't think fits what took place.