Player Discussion #8 - Ben Chiarot: Swing Low, Sweet Chiarot

[Habs Halifax]

Sad thing is that while you are right, the first pair is awful too. Mete probably doesn't even belong in the NHL. As fast as he is. That's all he is. And Weber shows signs of being old. That's the healthy and ready to go Weber. I think he looked better last year when he was hurt.

Better keep Mete with Weber cause Weber needs him! lol. I like Mete's game and would like to see him in attack mode in terms of puck movement. He is a good passer but sometimes, I'd like to see him keep the puck and use his speed to his advantage. Stop looking for pass first!

 

[Whitesnake]

Ben Chiarot....Aim Low....Aim Chariot.

 

[jaffy27]

Why did Bergevin trade Sergachev, why they let Markov go, why did he gut the left side of his D in one fell swoop, why did it take so long (and failed) to sign Radulov, why why why........

Because Bergevin and Chevy went to the same school of planning and foresight.

Sure......

 

[JoelWarlord]

Douglas Murray 2019 baby

 

[Whitesnake]

Still laugh at the people saying how Bergevin finally adapted to what the NHL is about....He is still living in the truculence era. They are tough! Chiarot is tough! You know the stupid and insane tough to play against! lol

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Still laugh at the people saying how Bergevin finally adapted to what the NHL is about....He is still living in the truculence era. They are tough! Chiarot is tough! You know the stupid and insane tough to play against! lol

Top teams in the league have bigger guys on D to help clear the front of their net and make their goalies job easier. The NHL hasn't adapted to top teams needing a whole D core of fast skating puck moving D, you need a combination of puck movers as well as some stay at home guys to help clear the front of the crease.

St. Louis won a cup with guys like Parayko, Edmunson and Bortuzzo doing a lot of the dirty work and letting Binnington see the puck. Boston made the finals with a 50 year old Chara, guys like Carlo and Clifton more known for being hard to play against and making Rask/Halak's job easier.

Paying a guy like Chiarot $3.5M to play on the second pairing isn't an issue, lacking a legit top 4 guy to play with Weber is.

 

[Habs]

Did you watch the game? Chariot was not the problem last night. Is he a top 4D? I'd say he is a fringe top 4D but where not paying him like a for sure top 4D. We are paying him as a bottom 4D but playing him with Petry. I think we should play Chariot with Fleury on the last pairing and try Kulak with Petry again

Gallagher: -3
Danault: -2
Tatar -2
Weber: -1
Weal -1
Reilly -1
Folin -1

No kidding, Weal is the Desharnais, overused beyond explanation. 2 bad games for Tatar, he hasn't been called out much. Stupid penalties yet again, time to sit some vets like Byron soon if they don't start contributing.

Also didn't mind Folin last night either, but man Reilly is awful

 

[Habs Halifax]

Still laugh at the people saying how Bergevin finally adapted to what the NHL is about....He is still living in the truculence era. They are tough! Chiarot is tough! You know the stupid and insane tough to play against! lol

Don't under estimate toughness in the skill/skating/size formula

 

[JoelWarlord]

Top teams in the league have bigger guys on D to help clear the front of their net and make their goalies job easier. The NHL hasn't adapted to top teams needing a whole D core of fast skating puck moving D, you need a combination of puck movers as well as some stay at home guys to help clear the front of the crease.

St. Louis won a cup with guys like Parayko, Edmunson and Bortuzzo doing a lot of the dirty work and letting Binnington see the puck. Boston made the finals with a 50 year old Chara, guys like Carlo and Clifton more known for being hard to play against and making Rask/Halak's job easier.

Paying a guy like Chiarot $3.5M to play on the second pairing isn't an issue, lacking a legit top 4 guy to play with Weber is.

Parayko and Edmundson threw 70 less hits than Jeff Petry last year. The Canadiens were 3rd in the league in hits and the Blues were 24th. This "big bad Blues" narrative has gotten really out of hand. Yes they have some physical guys but every team does, and the Blues didn't play a notably physical game compared to most playoff teams. Neither did the Bruins for that matter, they still have some grease with Marchand/DeBrusk but they're nothing like the early 2010s Bruins for physicality.

The problem with this "clearing the crease" physicality stuff is there will just never be enough of it if it's a thing you start chasing. Shea Weber was supposed to be the man mountain clearing the crease for Price, then suddenly we needed to overpay Alzner to do the same job, then he sucked just liek everyone predicted. Then we signed another Alzner to do the same job that Weber was supposed to do (and we've got Folin on the roster to do the same thing). Yes, teams need defensive dmen, especially because you can usually find them for cheaper than they should cost for their impact, but that doesn't mean you need to overpay fringy #5ish DFD because they can do specific things.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Parayko and Edmundson threw 70 less hits than Jeff Petry last year. The Canadiens were 3rd in the league in hits and the Blues were 24th. This "big bad Blues" narrative has gotten really out of hand. Yes they have some physical guys but every team does, and the Blues didn't play a notably physical game compared to most playoff teams. Neither did the Bruins for that matter, they still have some grease with Marchand/DeBrusk but they're nothing like the early 2010s Bruins for physicality.

The problem with this "clearing the crease" physicality stuff is there will just never be enough of it if it's a thing you start chasing. Shea Weber was supposed to be the man mountain clearing the crease for Price, then suddenly we needed to overpay Alzner to do the same job, then he sucked just liek everyone predicted. Then we signed another Alzner to do the same job that Weber was supposed to do (and we've got Folin on the roster to do the same thing). Yes, teams need defensive dmen, especially because you can usually find them for cheaper than they should cost for their impact, but that doesn't mean you need to overpay fringy #5ish DFD because they can do specific things.

You don't need to solely focus on hitting to be physical... you can be hard on the puck and cause turnovers and use your body position effectively cause you are big and strong. However, if you can't skate to escape pressure, you are like Alzner

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Parayko and Edmundson threw 70 less hits than Jeff Petry last year. The Canadiens were 3rd in the league in hits and the Blues were 24th. This "big bad Blues" narrative has completely gotten out of hand, yes they have some physical guys but so does every team and the Blues didn't play a notably physical game compared to most playoff teams. Neither did the Bruins for that matter, they still have some grease with Marchand/DeBrusk but they're nothing like the early 2010s Bruins for physicality.

The problem with this "clearing the crease" physicality stuff is there will just never be enough of it if it's a thing you start chasing. I thought Shea Weber was supposed to be the man mountain clearing the crease for Price, then suddenly we needed to overpay Alzner to do the same job, then he sucked just liek everyone predicted so we signed another Alzner to do the same job that I thought Weber was supposed to do. We've got Folin on the roster to do the same thing. Yes, teams need defensive dmen, especially because you can usually find them for cheaper than they should cost for their impact, but that doesn't mean you need to overpay fringy #5ish DFD because they can do specific things.

I am not referring to hitting, I am talking about them being tough to play against in the defensive zone where they keep the majority of shots to the outside, limit deflections and keeping guys from screening their goaltender. Ideally your scouts are able find these types of guys after the first round in the draft like Boston/St. Louis were able to get with Carlo/Parayko after the first round so you don't have to overpay for them in free agency, meanwhile we've drafted guys like Lernout/Koberstein/Tinordi.

At the start of last year Price was letting in a ton of goals from deflections and by not being able to see the puck and having soft plugs like Schlemko/Alzner/Ouellet get dominated in the higher risk defensive areas, when Weber came back him and Benn did a good job of letting Price actually see the puck and as a result his save % was like .925 in the last 5 months of the season. Emelin was underrated while here as he was a guy who helped make it difficult for guys to get in Price's face as well.

As bad as we've looked defensively, I just find the Chiarot/Petry pairing have been fine.. the Weber pairing and whoever we've thrown out as our 3rd pairing have been bad.

 

[Whitesnake]

Top teams in the league have bigger guys on D to help clear the front of their net and make their goalies job easier. The NHL hasn't adapted to top teams needing a whole D core of fast skating puck moving D, you need a combination of puck movers as well as some stay at home guys to help clear the front of the crease.

St. Louis won a cup with guys like Parayko, Edmunson and Bortuzzo doing a lot of the dirty work and letting Binnington see the puck. Boston made the finals with a 50 year old Chara, guys like Carlo and Clifton more known for being hard to play against and making Rask/Halak's job easier.

Paying a guy like Chiarot $3.5M to play on the second pairing isn't an issue, lacking a legit top 4 guy to play with Weber is.

EVery single guy you named can move a puck. Every single guy. Fine with me if on top of it they are big, but this is not their greatest quality. Incredibly that you compare Parayko to Chiarot....Same with Carlo. Clifton and Bortuzzo are irrelevant to any team and are not being paid like Chiarot is. 1.3 Bortuzzo. 1.3M$ . Top 4 D of St-Louis: Parayko, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester and Faulk. Tell me again who is their Chiarot in that list. 'Cause Chiarot is seen as top 4 here. And will also play on the 1st pairing with Weber when Mete doesn't look good. Makes no sense to name St-Louis when talking about Chiarot.

 

[Whitesnake]

Don't under estimate toughness in the skill/skating/size formula

Well I do now. That poster talked about St-Louis and yet those guys have Bouwmeester, Parayko, Pietrangelo and Faulk as their top 4. Who the heck is the tough guy there? Yes, they are big, but their game is IQ, stick placement and some more than otherse, good feet. And transition game. Forget toughness and truculence. It's absolutely irrelevant. We have the meanest SOB on that team. Shea Weber. I have no idea that he's probably the most feared player in the NHL. Tell me how it's working out now?

I think that Weber's fear is best towards the refs. They don't call things on him 'cause he is SHea Weber. I believe that. But his game does not make our players bigger. And his game does not change how the opponent plays. They are still outshooting us. And outchancing us. Incredible that Price is still not seen weak and yet gives 3-4 goals a night. He actually he's miraculous right now. And that despite having the meanest SOB of the league and the really really tough guy that is Chiarot.....

 

[Miller Time]

Still laugh at the people saying how Bergevin finally adapted to what the NHL is about....He is still living in the truculence era. They are tough! Chiarot is tough! You know the stupid and insane tough to play against! lol

He's got some good tools, but at this point the decision-making is so brutal that it makes them useless...

Bad turnovers, out of position, poor timing on hits that drag him out of position, puck brain farts...

Is it just nerves& adjustment? At 29, that's a bad sign either way (if he hasn't mastered his nerves yet, unlikely to do so at this point... If it's not nerves, then it's just bad processing skills, again too late to expect that to improve).

 

[Whitesnake]

He's got some good tools, but at this point the decision-making is so brutal that it makes them useless...

Bad turnovers, out of position, poor timing on hits that drag him out of position, puck brain farts...

Is it just nerves& adjustment? At 29, that's a bad sign either way (if he hasn't mastered his nerves yet, unlikely to do so at this point... If it's not nerves, then it's just bad processing skills, again too late to expect that to improve).

He's not the worst d-man of the league. But he was not worth the money and term he got. And to me, it's not even about him, it's about the supposed plan that our supposed GM has. It's about the fact that he thought he was an answer. With the team we have, he was not. Just find it strange that it made sense to ship Shaw away for playing the kids....but it did make sense to sign Chiarot to not play a kid. Mind you, the whole Shaw to play kids myth was debunked....obviously the vets are getting Shaw's icetime....

Just saying that Chiarot can not part of a plan. He has and had to be a filler to an already good team.

 

[ahmedou]

No one could have predicted he would not be suited to a top four role and paid that money.

No one.

Tbh, I had the presentiment. But I favored to gave him the benefit of the doubt. Practically the similar type of defenseman than we already have...

 

[TheGoalJudge]

Cross-checking a forward in the face after he enjoys a dangerous scoring chance is literally less than useless.

 

[The Real Timo]

Of all people, Picard isn't one to criticize anyone's play. As far as I am concerned, he'd be lucky to tie Chiarot's skates. What an @sshat.

Un ancien défenseur du CH écorche Ben Chiarot - TVA Sports

 

[Tyson]

Alzner 2.0

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

Did you watch the game? Chariot was not the problem last night. Is he a top 4D? I'd say he is a fringe top 4D but where not paying him like a for sure top 4D. We are paying him as a bottom 4D but playing him with Petry. I think we should play Chariot with Fleury on the last pairing and try Kulak with Petry again

Gallagher: -3
Danault: -2
Tatar -2
Weber: -1
Weal -1
Reilly -1
Folin -1

I did and while he was not the worst player out there (not saying much considering the type of team we’re icing), I just don’t get the appeal of this guy. At best he’s a marginal upgrade over Benn. And don’t fool yourself, Bergevin signed him hopping he’d magically become a top 4 D to somehow redeem his pathetic summer. He’s been what 95% of this board thought he’d be, a bottom pairing D with some physicality and not much else to offer.

Our defense is arguably the worst in the league, fans have every reason to be livid.

 

[OldCraig71]

Top teams in the league have bigger guys on D to help clear the front of their net and make their goalies job easier. The NHL hasn't adapted to top teams needing a whole D core of fast skating puck moving D, you need a combination of puck movers as well as some stay at home guys to help clear the front of the crease.

St. Louis won a cup with guys like Parayko, Edmunson and Bortuzzo doing a lot of the dirty work and letting Binnington see the puck. Boston made the finals with a 50 year old Chara, guys like Carlo and Clifton more known for being hard to play against and making Rask/Halak's job easier.

Paying a guy like Chiarot $3.5M to play on the second pairing isn't an issue, lacking a legit top 4 guy to play with Weber is.

Accepting that Chiarot can play second pairing is a bigger issue. He is completely lost, he has zero composure with the puck on his stick and randomly throws the puck to no one. Weber is also at the stage of his career where he needs a Chabot type to play beside him, we had that and Bergevin threw it away for a little winger that we didn't really need. We need not forget the past.

 

[Whitesnake]

Of all people, Picard isn't one to criticize anyone's play. As far as I am concerned, he'd be lucky to tie Chiarot's skates. What an @sshat.

Un ancien défenseur du CH écorche Ben Chiarot - TVA Sports

lol What does that mean? Is that fine for Joel Bouchard a less than average d-man to teach superstars kids? So because you can't play as good you can't criticize?

 

[dinodebino]

Of all people, Picard isn't one to criticize anyone's play. As far as I am concerned, he'd be lucky to tie Chiarot's skates. What an @sshat.

Un ancien défenseur du CH écorche Ben Chiarot - TVA Sports

You don't need to be a Hall of Famer to criticize a hockey player. In that case, Serge Savard had all the rights in the world to call out Marc Bergevin, right?

Chiarot is not very efficient right now. He will look good against Western Conference teams that rely on size and physicality. But in the East, he'll suffer, because the East is all about skating. And he can't skate. Heck, he has trouble pivoting from the right. Look at that exact play in the video and you can see that he has trouble pivoting. I mean, Christ man, you're in the freaking NHL. Guy is efficient in the West. In the East, he will look lost many times.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You don't need to be a Hall of Famer to criticize a hockey player. In that case, Serge Savard had all the rights in the world to call out Marc Bergevin, right?

Chiarot is not very efficient right now. He will look good against Western Conference teams that rely on size and physicality. But in the East, he'll suffer, because the East is all about skating. And he can't skate. Heck, he has trouble pivoting from the right. Look at that exact play in the video and you can see that he has trouble pivoting. I mean, Christ man, you're in the freaking NHL. Guy is efficient in the West. In the East, he will look lost many times.

what Chariot is a good skater

 

[ECWHSWI]

I am not referring to hitting, I am talking about them being tough to play against in the defensive zone where they keep the majority of shots to the outside, limit deflections and keeping guys from screening their goaltender. Ideally your scouts are able find these types of guys after the first round in the draft like Boston/St. Louis were able to get with Carlo/Parayko after the first round so you don't have to overpay for them in free agency, meanwhile we've drafted guys like Lernout/Koberstein/Tinordi.

At the start of last year Price was letting in a ton of goals from deflections and by not being able to see the puck and having soft plugs like Schlemko/Alzner/Ouellet get dominated in the higher risk defensive areas, when Weber came back him and Benn did a good job of letting Price actually see the puck and as a result his save % was like .925 in the last 5 months of the season. Emelin was underrated while here as he was a guy who helped make it difficult for guys to get in Price's face as well.

As bad as we've looked defensively, I just find the Chiarot/Petry pairing have been fine.. the Weber pairing and whoever we've thrown out as our 3rd pairing have been bad.

should try listening to games, you'd be impressed how many times per game Chiarot is being called for a bad play... that and "Quel arret de Price" are what you'd hear the most.