Post-Game Talk: #78 | Flyers at Blue Jackets | April 6, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP | Loss

[Flyerfan4life]

How are they doing nothing?

First year, you identify problems and make the necessary subtractions - done and done successfully (aside from the Hart issue but I suspect there were no takers and really, nobody wants to get into that)
Second year (this year) build a strong foundation, a solid culture to build from. Done. Team lacks talent for sure, but they work much harder than in previous years, they didn't quit on a lot of games, and their overall team attitude was much improved.
Third year (next year) you start building off that foundation and adding talent. This remains to be seen, but Michkov eventually is part of that.

I see no problem with what is happening.

clearly...

 

[Beef Invictus]

How are they doing nothing?

First year, you identify problems and make the necessary subtractions - done and done successfully (aside from the Hart issue but I suspect there were no takers and really, nobody wants to get into that)
Second year (this year) build a strong foundation, a solid culture to build from. Done. Team lacks talent for sure, but they work much harder than in previous years, they didn't quit on a lot of games, and their overall team attitude was much improved.
Third year (next year) you start building off that foundation and adding talent. This remains to be seen, but Michkov eventually is part of that.

I see no problem with what is happening.

The only "subtractions" were guys Tortorella dictated. Who had the least value, because everyone knew they were going to be forced out. The guys they should be moving don't get moved. It's not a rebuild. They should be building for the Michkov era, and so far they don't have much and they're content to pretend the team is fine. There's very little to distinguish last offseason from those that came before. Especially with signing Staal, and at the TDL spending to get a slob washed up dman for no reason at all. That first stage you described? That's the "easy" part of GMing, and the job the Flyers did considering it's supposedly a rebuild was not very solid. They either fail to understand the team's position and situation or they fail to be able to identify the obvious moves.

Everything from here on out is really hard, especially with a minimum of picks and letting all your assets deprecate. They refuse to move the people they need to move. Michkov will hit his prime surrounded by aging-out players at this rate. His career will be wasted like Giroux's. It's the exact same path; I remember when people here predicted that they'd regret not going full rebuild in 2011 and trading guys like Briere and Hartnell and Timonen along with Richards and Carter. Those posters were called negative, and I didn't agree with them. They ended up being right and I was wrong. Unlike the Flyers, I've learned.

Culture is useless. It's bullshit. It's an excuse this team trots out and glorifies chiefly to slam former players as they scapegoat them one after the other. Glorifying it, of course, feeds Clarke's ego because he always gets held up as the standard, and stroking Clarke's ego is the most important function of this team apparently. No team wins on culture. Many teams across sports win with terrible culture, in fact. Building for culture is a sign you're building to lose, because you're valuing players for non-hockey things. Build for effectiveness at playing hockey and culture follows. Trying to force culture always fails; it's a thing that has to happen on its own. The Flyers have been talking about rebuilding culture nonstop since they traded Richards and Carter so clearly they suck at it.

They haven't built a foundation. Everything should be in service of Michkov's prime. Anything established now will be dust and ash by then, anyway. What have they "built" now that will be vital then? A foundation would look like Michkov and the horde of young talent they plan on bringing up with him all on the same timeline to maximize the chance of winning. Not Tortorella's whining.

 

[Boocowski]

The only "subtractions" were guys Tortorella dictated. Who had the least value, because everyone knew they were going to be forced out. The guys they should be moving don't get moved. It's not a rebuild. They should be building for the Michkov era, and so far they don't have much and they're content to pretend the team is fine. There's very little to distinguish last offseason from those that came before. Especially with signing Staal, and at the TDL spending to get a slob washed up dman for no reason at all. That first stage you described? That's the "easy" part of GMing, and the job the Flyers did considering it's supposedly a rebuild was not very solid. They either fail to understand the team's position and situation or they fail to be able to identify the obvious moves.

Everything from here on out is really hard, especially with a minimum of picks and letting all your assets deprecate. They refuse to move the people they need to move. Michkov will hit his prime surrounded by aging-out players at this rate. His career will be wasted like Giroux's. It's the exact same path; I remember when people here predicted that they'd regret not going full rebuild in 2011 and trading guys like Briere and Hartnell and Timonen along with Richards and Carter. Those posters were called negative, and I didn't agree with them. They ended up being right and I was wrong. Unlike the Flyers, I've learned.

Culture is useless. It's bullshit. It's an excuse this team trots out and glorifies chiefly to slam former players as they scapegoat them one after the other. Glorifying it, of course, feeds Clarke's ego because he always gets held up as the standard, and stroking Clarke's ego is the most important function of this team apparently. No team wins on culture. Many teams across sports win with terrible culture, in fact. Building for culture is a sign you're building to lose, because you're valuing players for non-hockey things. Build for effectiveness at playing hockey and culture follows. Trying to force culture always fails; it's a thing that has to happen on its own. The Flyers have been talking about rebuilding culture nonstop since they traded Richards and Carter so clearly they suck at it.

They haven't built a foundation. Everything should be in service of Michkov's prime. Anything established now will be dust and ash by then, anyway. What have they "built" now that will be vital then? A foundation would look like Michkov and the horde of young talent they plan on bringing up with him all on the same timeline to maximize the chance of winning. Not Tortorella's whining.

Nope. What you describe is the Buffalo plan exactly and they are still at it after 13 years. Culture is what they do not have there. Their young stars just lose their love for hockey and go win elsewhere. Culture matters. For you to say it doesn't makes me think you've never played on a hockey team. I'm right aren't I? (video games don't count).

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Oh man. I always love that one.

 

[freakydallas13]

Nope. What you describe is the Buffalo plan exactly and they are still at it after 13 years. Culture is what they do not have there. Their young stars just lose their love for hockey and go win elsewhere. Culture matters. For you to say it doesn't makes me think you've never played on a hockey team. I'm right aren't I? (video games don't count).

Bro Buffalo finished ahead of the Flyers last season. They have more wins than the Flyers do this season.

 

[Boocowski]

Bro Buffalo finished ahead of the Flyers last season. They have more wins than the Flyers do this season.

But not many and still out of the playoffs.

Point is there's a team that did what a bunch of people here want. Lose for several years to get high draft picks. They have more first round picks on their roster than anybody else. Two first overall picks on D no less. Still losing and out of the playoffs for 13 years. Yet some people here don't want to learn from that lesson and think it's a good idea. Good luck with that approach, you'll need it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Bro Buffalo finished ahead of the Flyers last season. They have more wins than the Flyers do this season.

shhh there will be no facts allowed in this..

 

[Magua]

Buffalo has undergone 2 rebuilds. The Murray-Botterrill one was objectively poorly managed beyond high picks. Enviable stuff! We want that!

Buffalo needs a positively impactful coach — they underachieved this year. But it’s boringly misleading to say “13 years.” They weren’t even rebuilding for the first few years and the limbo years pre-Adams. This second rebuild, with a few pieces from the first (sort of like Colorado!), is simply too talented to not take the next step.

How about all the other objectively successful rebuilds? Or is it a two team league where the Flyers are still last?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I see we are at the "NOPE" stage.

Wonder what it says that the Flyers have heavily focused on "culture" since 2011 and it evidently still sucks.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

But not many and still out of the playoffs.

Point is there's a team that did what a bunch of people here want. Lose for several years to get high draft picks. They have more first round picks on their roster than anybody else. Two first overall picks on D no less. Still losing and out of the playoffs for 13 years. Yet some people here don't want to learn from that lesson and think it's a good idea. Good luck with that approach, you'll need it.

I’m sorry. But why exactly are you so fixated on Buffalo? You give me Buffalo, I’ll give you the Penguins. You give me the Sens, I’ll give you Edmonton. There are more examples of a rebuild (done properly) being successful (i.e being an actual contender), than the Buffalos of the world, who ironically enough, also have a much brighter future prospect wise than the Flyers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course, the Flyers aren't TB or Colorado, though. Or even middling in competency. They'd absolutely do a rebuild wrong. It's why step 1 is firing everyone.

 

[freakydallas13]

But not many and still out of the playoffs.

Point is there's a team that did what a bunch of people here want. Lose for several years to get high draft picks. They have more first round picks on their roster than anybody else. Two first overall picks on D no less. Still losing and out of the playoffs for 13 years. Yet some people here don't want to learn from that lesson and think it's a good idea. Good luck with that approach, you'll need it.

"It didn't work for one team we should never use that strategy"

Nevermind you are admitting you think the Flyers management is as bad as Buffalo's. I have bad news if your alternative to getting high picks is being an eternal playoff tweener, because it it means we'll just be another Minnesota/Calgary/Columbus for the rest of the franchise's life.

If that's all you want, fill your boots. Personally, I actually want to see them win a cup in my lifetime.

 

[freakydallas13]

I see we are at the "NOPE" stage.

Wonder what it says that the Flyers have heavily focused on "culture" since 2011 and it evidently still sucks.

No you see we can't draft high because Buffalo. But we have to keep doing it the Flyers way despite the decade of mediocre tire spinning because.......reasons.

 

[Boocowski]

I’m sorry. But why exactly are you so fixated on Buffalo? You give me Buffalo, I’ll give you the Penguins. You give me the Sens, I’ll give you Edmonton. There are more examples of a rebuild (done properly) being successful (i.e being an actual contender), than the Buffalos of the world, who ironically enough, also have a much brighter future prospect wise than the Flyers.

I used Buffalo simply because they have the longest non playoff run in all of pro sports. Also because quite a few people here seem to think Flyers would be better off to be really bad and tank rather than trying to win right now. Buffalo has done that and failed. Learn from history.
Now you mention Pens and Oilers. So McDavid and Crosby. Yup, getting a superstar is a good thing. Maybe that'll be Michkov.
Besides, drafting isn't the only way. Look at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.
I'd simply rather win games than lose them and you won't convince me that being worse now is a good idea.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I'm learning from this guy that it's better to build your team without talent than with it. He must be employed by the flyers

 

[Boocowski]

"It didn't work for one team we should never use that strategy"

Nevermind you are admitting you think the Flyers management is as bad as Buffalo's. I have bad news if your alternative to getting high picks is being an eternal playoff tweener, because it it means we'll just be another Minnesota/Calgary/Columbus for the rest of the franchise's life.

If that's all you want, fill your boots. Personally, I actually want to see them win a cup in my lifetime.

I'm not lumping all management in one category as if it's a fungus or mold. THIS management is in year 2. We aren't winning and competing by year 4 then you need to start over again but Briere and Jones aren't responsible for what Fletcher or Hextall or even Holmgren etc. did. That's my timeline.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

No you see we can't draft high because Buffalo. But we have to keep doing it the Flyers way despite the decade of mediocre tire spinning because.......reasons.

i think you meant decadeS....

 

[LegionOfGloom]

I used Buffalo simply because they have the longest non playoff run in all of pro sports. Also because quite a few people here seem to think Flyers would be better off to be really bad and tank rather than trying to win right now. Buffalo has done that and failed. Learn from history.
Now you mention Pens and Oilers. So McDavid and Crosby. Yup, getting a superstar is a good thing. Maybe that'll be Michkov.
Besides, drafting isn't the only way. Look at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.
I'd simply rather win games than lose them and you won't convince me that being worse now is a good idea.

Are there other aspects of your life that you live by disregarding something that doesn't occur every single time?

 

[Boocowski]

Are there other aspects of your life that you live by disregarding something that doesn't occur every single time?

My life? I don't let the past dictate my future. You?

 

[LegionOfGloom]

My life? I don't let the past dictate my future. You?

I look at the past in assessing the most likely successful route in the future.

 

[trostol]

CULTURE!!!!! i dunno which word is worse culture or tanking

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm not lumping all management in one category as if it's a fungus or mold. THIS management is in year 2. We aren't winning and competing by year 4 then you need to start over again but Briere and Jones aren't responsible for what Fletcher or Hextall or even Holmgren etc. did. That's my timeline.

May wanna check and see how long they've all been employed by the team. It's longer than 2 years. In many cases, far longer.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

The only culture that is growing within the Flyers is that surrounding Flahr’s toilet.

 

[Boocowski]

I look at the past in assessing the most likely successful route in the future.

You can learn from the past but, as the saying goes in finance, past performance does not guarantee future returns.
For one example, any comparison to anything pre salary cap is absolutely useless.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

May wanna check and see how long they've all been employed by the team. It's longer than 2 years. In many cases, far longer.

pssst i dont think he knows next season is the rebuild complete!

"this is ur competing team roster "...