Post-Game Talk: #78 | Flyers at Blue Jackets | April 6, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP | Loss

[Hollywood Cannon]

Pre salary cap, you say?

What about pre allowable two line passes?

 

[Nizzle]

Look at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.

Pastrnak is pretty good.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I'm not lumping all management in one category as if it's a fungus or mold. THIS management is in year 2. We aren't winning and competing by year 4 then you need to start over again but Briere and Jones aren't responsible for what Fletcher or Hextall or even Holmgren etc. did. That's my timeline.

What are your thoughts on Lombardi, Clarke, Barber, and Hanrahan?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Pastrnak is pretty good.

And Krejci. And Marchand.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

And Krejci. And Marchand.

we dont discuss facts round here...

 

[Boocowski]

Pastrnak is pretty good.

True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.

What are your thoughts on Lombardi, Clarke, Barber, and Hanrahan?

I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.

 

[Appleyard]

Look at Boston. Aside from McAvoy they haven't drafted anybody worth much since Bergeron and they're near the top of the league. So that argument falls apart too.

Bergeron
Krejci
Kessel (moved for the Seguin and Hamilton picks)
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin (moved for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser)
Hamilton (moved for picks they wasted aha)
Pastrnak
McAvoy

in a 13 year span.

That is quite a lot of star level guys.

Of their best 3 players over the last 15 years? 2+ have always been from the draft. Including right now where all of their best 3 players were drafted. At times all of their best 5 players were drafted.

Now, yeh, that are probably (alongside Vegas who are a pretty special circumstance) the team that have relied on the draft LEAST to build a contender.

But relying on the draft the least yet having 5 of your most important ~8 players in terms of success over the past ~15 years being drafted by the club? Yeh, kind of shows how important it is to draft well.

The Bruins actually made some awful trades at times, and threw away draft picks... but were "saved" funnily enough by having the top end guys that they got through the draft.

 

[FlyerNutter]

True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.


I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.

Why not prefer to go there?

The men that make up the FO are the biggest constant about the franchise, that finds itself struggling for success.

Replacing GM’s while keeping the same group of men around them doesn’t mean much.

The Flyers are run like a modern political party. You don’t change course by just electing a new “face”, when all the people around them remain the same.

The Flyers GM title is simply more of a spokesperson anyway. What’s different about the team now then when Fletcher was here? They fired Chuck to appease a fanbase hungry for blood, but even kept Flahr after the fallout.

It was a PR move. This is the same perpetual retool nonsense it’s always been.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Boston hasn't drafted anyone of note since taking a top 5 Defenseman in the world while still having Marchand and Pastrnak and also only being months out of Bergeron's career. That's where we are in this conversation. Cut bait, friends.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah but let's talk bring this back to Buffalo and talk about them more.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Bergeron
Krejci
Kessel (moved for the Seguin and Hamilton picks)
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin (moved for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser)
Hamilton (moved for picks they wasted aha)
Pastrnak
McAvoy

in a 13 year span.

That is quite a lot of star level guys.

Of their best 3 players over the last 15 years? 2+ have always been from the draft. Including right now where all of their best 3 players were drafted. At times all of their best 5 players were drafted.

Now, yeh, that are probably (alongside Vegas who are a pretty special circumstance) the team that have relied on the draft LEAST to build a contender.

But relying on the draft the least yet having 5 of your most important ~8 players in terms of success over the past ~15 years being drafted by the club? Yeh, kind of shows how important it is to draft well.

The Bruins actually made some awful trades at times, and threw away draft picks... but were "saved" funnily enough by having the top end guys that they got through the draft.

Helps that Marchand & Bergeron aged like fine wine well into their 30’s. Add in McAvoy like you said who’s probably been a top 5 defensemen for majority of his time in the league so far & Pastrnak who’s been one of the top scoring wingers in the league for some time now.

If you look at the Flyers previous core Giroux was the only one that aged really well into their 30’s. Couturier I guess it’s TBD but it doesn’t look great right now. The rest of them fell off to secondary players or worse pretty early into their 30’s. They never drafted two players in the caliber range of McAvoy & Pastrnak. Sanheim & Konecny would be the closest & while they’re to good too very good players they’re not at that level.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

These conversations are oddly familiar.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Boston hasn't drafted anyone of note since taking a top 5 Defenseman in the world while still having Marchand and Pastrnak and also only being months out of Bergeron's career. That's where we are in this conversation. Cut bait, friends.

Boston’s definitely felt the impact of no Bergeron this year & no Krejic to a lesser degree given what is/was behind him. But their goaltending has still been the best in the league this year mitigating that drop off in overall perception.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Boston has gotten away with a ton of bad moves because their drafting in the 00s gave them such a luxurious cushion to break their falls. Gonna be interesting to see how that goes as the crowd retires out.

 

[dragonoffrost]

True. Not a top pick though. He fell in the draft and was missed by lots of people. But yes, that makes 2.


I'm not getting into that sort of speculative discussion. I know what some people think of the old boys club and so forth. I prefer not to go there.

 

[Boocowski]

Bergeron
Krejci
Kessel (moved for the Seguin and Hamilton picks)
Lucic
Marchand
Seguin (moved for Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser)
Hamilton (moved for picks they wasted aha)
Pastrnak
McAvoy

in a 13 year span.

That is quite a lot of star level guys.

Of their best 3 players over the last 15 years? 2+ have always been from the draft. Including right now where all of their best 3 players were drafted. At times all of their best 5 players were drafted.

Now, yeh, that are probably (alongside Vegas who are a pretty special circumstance) the team that have relied on the draft LEAST to build a contender.

But relying on the draft the least yet having 5 of your most important ~8 players in terms of success over the past ~15 years being drafted by the club? Yeh, kind of shows how important it is to draft well.

The Bruins actually made some awful trades at times, and threw away draft picks... but were "saved" funnily enough by having the top end guys that they got through the draft.

No, that's true. I went too far back. Really I was thinking of the last period of time where they pretty much trade away all their picks and prospects. They are not really a built through the draft model but it doesn't matter. Flyers have lots of picks. They can do both.

 

[Boocowski]

Why not prefer to go there?

The men that make up the FO are the biggest constant about the franchise, that finds itself struggling for success.

Replacing GM’s while keeping the same group of men around them doesn’t mean much.

The Flyers are run like a modern political party. You don’t change course by just electing a new “face”, when all the people around them remain the same.

The Flyers GM title is simply more of a spokesperson anyway. What’s different about the team now then when Fletcher was here? They fired Chuck to appease a fanbase hungry for blood, but even kept Flahr after the fallout.

It was a PR move. This is the same perpetual retool nonsense it’s always been.

I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.
Does Clarke make any decisions still or does he just a comfy chair and a free buffet along with his thanks for your service? Nobody really knows and everybody just spins all that to validate their own already decided belief.

I prefer to just take Briere and Jones at face value and evaluate them by what they do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.
Does Clarke make any decisions still or does he just a comfy chair and a free buffet along with his thanks for your service? Nobody really knows and everybody just spins all that to validate their own already decided belief.

I prefer to just take Briere and Jones at face value and evaluate them by what they do.

Yet in another thread you just tried to pretend they didn't do what they did.

 

[Boocowski]

Yet in another thread you just tried to pretend they didn't do what they did.

What are you on about?

 

[Beef Invictus]

What are you on about?

"They didn't add anyone."

You tried to pretend they weren't buyers in FA. They were. The best they could buy was shabby.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I don't go there because it gets one nowhere. It's purely speculative in terms of how the decisions are made or who has a veto or who gets final say. You can spin it either way. You can say it's an old boys club with old guys pulling puppet strings and only hiring ex-Flyer yes men, or you can say they hire ex-Flyers because they want loyalty to the jersey and what they want the Flyers to stand for and the history from way back. Trust even.
Does Clarke make any decisions still or does he just a comfy chair and a free buffet along with his thanks for your service? Nobody really knows and everybody just spins all that to validate their own already decided belief.

I prefer to just take Briere and Jones at face value and evaluate them by what they do.

We do know though.

The last 2 GMs (Hextall/Fletcher) they chose to hire were complete morons.

Those were crippling mistakes, yet the men responsible for both hires are still around. Not only still around, but got to influence the hiring of Briere.

The Flyers seem somehow allergic to finding a superstar or two, yet they are infused into the league every season. Whether that’s top 5 picks, or later.

Yet the same good ol’ boys continue to staff the scouting department, and the advisors are overall still around.

It’s not speculative. The stagnation is very much on display. They remain there. The team remains a f***ing joke.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We do know though.

The last 2 GMs (Hextall/Fletcher) they chose to hire were complete morons.

Those were crippling mistakes, yet the men responsible for both hires are still around. Not only still around, but got to influence the hiring of Briere.

The Flyers seem somehow allergic to finding a superstar or two, yet they are infused into the league every season. Whether that’s top 5 picks, or later.

Yet the same good ol’ boys continue to staff the scouting department, and the advisors are overall still around.

It’s not speculative. The stagnation is very much on display. They remain there. The team remains a f***ing joke.

Influenced the hiring of the coach and his ridiculous empowerment, too. That was done over Fletcher's head, I think? Guy was Pres of Hockey Ops and an alt governor, there aren't really many people shy of Clarke and his little shitty circle with that kind of pull.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Influenced the hiring of the coach and his ridiculous empowerment, too. That was done over Fletcher's head, I think? Guy was Pres of Hockey Ops and an alt governor, there aren't really many people shy of Clarke and his little shitty circle with that kind of pull.

They hired a third party firm to handle the coaching search. A third party that, if IIRC, had represented Tortorella in the past.

 

[Boocowski]

We do know though.

The last 2 GMs (Hextall/Fletcher) they chose to hire were complete morons.

Those were crippling mistakes, yet the men responsible for both hires are still around. Not only still around, but got to influence the hiring of Briere.

The Flyers seem somehow allergic to finding a superstar or two, yet they are infused into the league every season. Whether that’s top 5 picks, or later.

Yet the same good ol’ boys continue to staff the scouting department, and the advisors are overall still around.

It’s not speculative. The stagnation is very much on display. They remain there. The team remains a f***ing joke.

Nope. Don't agree. Hextall's resume said he was a good choice. At first he seemed to be. Then he wasn't. At the time, seemed like a good hire. Not that terrible really either. He was right about a few things, but that's the past so I don't care. It's over.
Fletcher was horrible. Totally agree. Big name, over rated guy. Big mistake. So is what it was and now we have a new era. Year two. So far I think they are doing a better job, but it's too early to be sure. Lots of decisions to be made in the next couple years.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They hired a third party firm to handle the coaching search. A third party that, if IIRC, had represented Tortorella in the past.

And who happened to settle on the guy Clarke wanted. Why, it's almost like the whole thing was a contrived little scam for appearances.