Post-Game Talk: #77 | FLYERS 2 at Stars 3 (OT)| Tue., Mar. 27, 2018, 8:30 pm ET

[deadhead]

If Hextall wanted to make the playoffs this year, he could have easily traded for a better goalie than Mrazek if he was willing to trade a 1st or a top prospect, and added a top 4 defenseman and a 3C, if he was willing to trade 3-4 more solid assets.
Flyers would have ended up with 100 points, lost in the 2nd round and the rebuild would have been slowed to a halt.

That's what you do if you think G & V are the heart of the team and you have to win in the next 2-3 years before they seriously decline.

 

[JXC]

I think the coaching job Sullivan did to psychoanalyze his players and stop them from chasing stupid penalties like jackasses has more to do with the recent success of that team against the Flyers

That’s a really good point.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And Berube used to beat the Penguins.
2013-14 Flyers 4-1-0
2014-15 Flyers 4-0-0
2015-16 Flyers 1-3-0
2016-17 Flyers 2-2-0
2017-18 Flyers 0-2-0

Seems to have less to do with coaches than matchups and talent.
Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Sheary - Brassard - Kessel

Oleksiak - Letang
Dumoulin - Schultz
Maata - Ruhwedel

We don't approach this kind of depth.
The Penguins mortgaged their future, but with Crosby (30) and Malkin (31), the future is now.

Berube was facing the Penguins under Bylsma, who was far, far, far less adept at managing his roster. At that point it was roster vs roster more than coach v coach, and oh look...we came out on top.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I love the way the Penguins played in their own end in last year’s playoffs. Super hardworking.

But only two points separates us and them. It’s mystifying to me, sincerely.

I think it's not. I think you'll push any fecal nonsense you need to to keep the bickering going.


I mean, what is your assertion here, that Hakstol is nearly Sullivan's equal? Do you even have a point?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

You know why the 2 points seperates the 2 teams? Philly has EIGHT more loser points than Pittsburgh.
The Flyers have the fewest wins out if any current playoff team. East or west.
only reason the Flyers are even in contention is because the NHL awards teams to lose games.

 

[Jtown]

You know why the 2 points seperates the 2 teams? Philly has EIGHT more loser points than Pittsburgh.
The Flyers have the fewest wins out if any current playoff team. East or west.
only reason the Flyers are even in contention is because the NHL awards teams to lose games.

Its ruined the game imo

 

[JXC]

I mean, what is your assertion here, that Hakstol is nearly Sullivan's equal? Do you even have a point?

Point One: Sullivan’s roster is markedly superior to Hakstol’s

Point Two: the Pens lead the Flyers by two points after 75 games

Point Three: it is therefore ludicrous to proclaim Sullivan to be markedly better than Hakstol

Point Four: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Five: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Six: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Seven: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

====

The Real Point: it’s almost impossible to compare coaches

I’m going to need to see Hakstol with a full NHL roster prior to judging him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

is Fixed It For You permitted here?

Let me know if not.



Fixed It For You

Nobody is arguing that the Flyers and Penguins have comparable rosters. So, no, you haven't fixed it. You've built another strawman, because you cannot actually argue the real points with any kind of logical lucidity. So, you fabricate different points and pretend that's what people are saying.

Nobody is arguing the rosters are equal. The argument is that unlike Hakstol, Sullivan actually gets the most out of what he has and creates a product greater than the sum of its parts. You've been gazing at the rankings and wondering why they are only two points apart. Maybe you failed to think your reasoning through, but the only thing you could be arguing by slopping that forth is that you think the coaches are equivalent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Point One: Sullivan’s roster is markedly superior to Hakstol’s

Point Two: the Pens lead the Flyers by two points after 75 games

Point Three: it is therefore ludicrous to proclaim Sullivan to be markedly better than Hakstol

Point Four: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Five: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Six: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

Point Seven: the Pens lost to Detroit last night, 5-2

====

The Real Point: it’s almost impossible to compare coaches

I’m going to need to see Hakstol with a full NHL roster prior to judging him.

It is very easy to look at how the coaches manage what they have and determine who is markedly superior. We have seen, twice in a row, Sullivan gameplan to exploit opposition's weaknesses while hiding his own. We've seen him work around major injuries to major players. We've seen him get the better matchups and neuter opposing teams. We've seen him come into each series with a fresh plan separate from what they were doing in the prior season.

We've yet to see anything like that from Hakstol, who takes damned near half a season to make some VERY obvious adjustments, and who maximizes his team's weaknesses rather than hiding them. Example: Chasing a Flip/MacDonald/Hagg matchup against top lines.

We've seen what the Penguins roster was like under Bylsma. We saw what it could do under Sullivan. Hakstol is just another Bylsma, a coach who takes a roster and gets less out of it.



Why do all your points rely strictly on a single game out of 82? Are they supposed to never lose? is your point really that feeble?

 

[JXC]

You know why the 2 points seperates the 2 teams? Philly has EIGHT more loser points than Pittsburgh.

I just looked but I cannot find overtime and shootout records for this year.

 

[JXC]

You've been gazing at the rankings and wondering why they are only two points apart.

I have indeed.

Is Sullivan is a far superior coach with a markedly better roster, how is he only 2 points ahead of Hakstol? It’s mysterious.

Oh, and Sullivan lost to Detroit last night, 5-2.

 

[JXC]

It is very easy to look at how the coaches manage what they have and determine who is markedly superior.

No, it’s not.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have indeed.

Is Sullivan is a far superior coach with a markedly better roster, how is he only 2 points ahead of Hakstol? It’s mysterious.

Oh, and Sullivan lost to Detroit last night, 5-2.

Yeah, it's amazing how you just cannot address any of my points so you keyboard-vomit this nonsense instead. You're humiliating yourself here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, it’s not.

It is. I explained it. Did you read past the first sentence? Try it, you'll learn something. Maybe at least make an attempt of looking like you're arguing in good faith rather than creating issues.

 

[deadhead]

What a coach can do is dependent on the players available to him.
Sullivan had a lot of AHL marinated "rookies" he could plug in.
In two years, when the Flyers have injuries, they won't have to pull Lehtera or Weise out of the pressbox or Read, Goul or Alt out of LHV.
Sullivan can field three top lines that he can use to create mismatches.
He has 3 solid pairs of D-men that means he doesn't have to protect any pair at any time.

Lavi was smart when he had a deep, talented team, Lavi was dumb when a couple players got old and his depth dissipated.
Sullivan went from brilliant to dunce in Boston, two years later Julien was brilliant.

The fact that this team may reach 95 points is indisputable, that is certainly getting the most out of this limited group and its bad goaltending.
Give Columbus, NJ or Florida our goaltenders and they'd be lucky to sniff 85 points this year.

Hextall won't fire Hakstol because Hextall knows he put Hakstol in a bad spot this season, he could have upgraded the depth at both forward and defense last offseason, but he didn't, instead he traded a top 9 forward for draft picks.
He could have brought up Lindblom two months earlier and NAK now, but he didn't.
He could have gotten better goaltenders, but he didn't.

Ron deliberately refused to use any assets to improve this team, until he was forced to acquire Mrazek.
That was part of his "grand strategy," but it certainly didn't make Hakstol's job any easier.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I just looked but I cannot find overtime and shootout records for this year.

Philly is 2-7 in shootouts
Pittsburgh is 2-2.
Philly is 8-7 in the 5 minute overtime.
not sure what Pittsburgh's record is.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What a coach can do is dependent on the players available to him.
Sullivan had a lot of AHL marinated "rookies" he could plug in.
In two years, when the Flyers have injuries, they won't have to pull Lehtera or Weise out of the pressbox or Read, Goul or Alt out of LHV.
Sullivan can field three top lines that he can use to create mismatches.
He has 3 solid pairs of D-men that means he doesn't have to protect any pair at any time.

Lavi was smart when he had a deep, talented team, Lavi was dumb when a couple players got old and his depth dissipated.
Sullivan went from brilliant to dunce in Boston, two years later Julien was brilliant.

The fact that this team may reach 95 points is indisputable, that is certainly getting the most out of this limited group and its bad goaltending.
Give Columbus, NJ or Florida our goaltenders and they'd be lucky to sniff 85 points this year.

Hextall won't fire Hakstol because Hextall knows he put Hakstol in a bad spot this season, he could have upgraded the depth at both forward and defense last offseason, but he didn't, instead he traded a top 9 forward for draft picks.
He could have brought up Lindblom two months earlier and NAK now, but he didn't.
He could have gotten better goaltenders, but he didn't.

Ron deliberately refused to use any assets to improve this team, until he was forced to acquire Mrazek.
That was part of his "grand strategy," but it certainly didn't make Hakstol's job any easier.

And Hakstol has numerous players that he flagrantly misuses or refuses to use, hence why he is a bad coach.

 

[Ruck Over]

Lavi was smart when he had a deep, talented team, Lavi was dumb when a couple players got old and his depth dissipated.

Lavi was brilliant because he best utilized his roster. When aforementioned players were no longer available, he did not change his coaching ways, and that was the dumb moment.

Being able to adapt to situations is what makes coaches brilliant. Staying the unsuccessful course is what makes them dumb.

Hakstol has not shown much in being adaptable, especially not in game, nor in roster manipulation.

 

[PHILOUDELPHIA]

Good to see Sanheim back to lowest ice time as well. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Haag back in Tomm for him.

Does hak even watch the game. I see sanhiem or manhiem lol milbury he is looking great showing improvement and confidence he should be getting double minutes.

I wish hak would be let go

 

[JXC]

Philly is 2-7 in shootouts
Pittsburgh is 2-2.
Philly is 8-7 in the 5 minute overtime.
not sure what Pittsburgh's record is.

I am amazed that that info (OT records) is not readily available.

 

[JXC]

What a coach can do is dependent on the players available to him.
Sullivan had a lot of AHL marinated "rookies" he could plug in.
In two years, when the Flyers have injuries, they won't have to pull Lehtera or Weise out of the pressbox or Read, Goul or Alt out of LHV.
Sullivan can field three top lines that he can use to create mismatches.
He has 3 solid pairs of D-men that means he doesn't have to protect any pair at any time.

Lavi was smart when he had a deep, talented team, Lavi was dumb when a couple players got old and his depth dissipated.
Sullivan went from brilliant to dunce in Boston, two years later Julien was brilliant.

The fact that this team may reach 95 points is indisputable, that is certainly getting the most out of this limited group and its bad goaltending.
Give Columbus, NJ or Florida our goaltenders and they'd be lucky to sniff 85 points this year.

Hextall won't fire Hakstol because Hextall knows he put Hakstol in a bad spot this season, he could have upgraded the depth at both forward and defense last offseason, but he didn't, instead he traded a top 9 forward for draft picks.
He could have brought up Lindblom two months earlier and NAK now, but he didn't.
He could have gotten better goaltenders, but he didn't.

Ron deliberately refused to use any assets to improve this team, until he was forced to acquire Mrazek.
That was part of his "grand strategy," but it certainly didn't make Hakstol's job any easier.

I think this is all accurate.

Especially the goaltending point.

If Hexy gives Hakstol a better roster next year and the team doesn’t perform, Hak will get gone, I am sure of it.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not even diving into the number aspect of it just applying common sense. No game is a gimme in the NHL on any given night despite fans looking too much into it the discrepancies of rosters. It’s not Alabama football versus the Citadel on Saturday’s. Consistency for better or worse throughout the course of a season is what separates the pack.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's not about Points, it's about how you're playing. Don't take my word for it. Hextall said it.

A coach's job is to maximize every angle he possibly can while building a culture around the team. He's failing miserably at both of those. You don't get credit for being in a bad roster situation when you helped create it and compounded it further.

Philly is 2-7 in shootouts
Pittsburgh is 2-2.
Philly is 8-7 in the 5 minute overtime.
not sure what Pittsburgh's record is.

Pittsburgh is 10-4. They have the most OT Wins in the league.

I am amazed that that info (OT records) is not readily available.

NHL.com - Stats

Then Goals Against in Overtime is a few columns to the right.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think this is all accurate.

Especially the goaltending point.

If Hexy gives Hakstol a better roster next year and the team doesn’t perform, Hak will get gone, I am sure of it.

Hakstol already has players he doesn't use in critical situations.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lavi was brilliant because he best utilized his roster. When aforementioned players were no longer available, he did not change his coaching ways, and that was the dumb moment.

Being able to adapt to situations is what makes coaches brilliant. Staying the unsuccessful course is what makes them dumb.

Hakstol has not shown much in being adaptable, especially not in game, nor in roster manipulation.

Yep. That's another huge difference between Hak and Sullivan, for instance. Hak adapts at glacial pace. Sullivan, especially in the playoffs, adapts not just game to game but period to period.