GDT: #76: FLYERS at Capitals, Sunday, March 24, 2019, 12:30 p.m. ET

[MarAlain MongYeo]

There's no reason to think Frost can't play in the NHL. He's ultra skilled, smart, a great skater, responsible defensively... Just use him properly and there shouldn't be any problem. We don't need a center, we just need a coach will balls who realizes using a young player isn't the end of the world. Plus, it's not like we need him to step into the top 6 immediately... playing semi-sheltered minutes on the 3rd line isn't exactly asking much.

Also, Panarin is a LW.

Well, Wing positions are pretty arbitrary most of the time, in this case we could just put G at the Right side, my point remains.

As for Frost it doesnt matter how skilled we think he is, he has to earn his way onto the team. We should be gunning to win a cup next year, we can't just hold a spot for Frost assuming he's good enough, when he may not be ready yet. I dont want our third line center to be sheltered next year, we need our 3rd line center to be legit good. If Frost is the 3C next year it should be because he earned it, or we struck out somewhere else, but that shouldnt be the plan.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

No we need wingers. We don't need centers blocking Patrick and Frost from top 6 roles for 7 years.

Right now the way Patrick is playing is blocking him from playing in the top 6.

 

[Striiker]

Well, Wing positions are pretty arbitrary most of the time, in this case we could just put G at the Right side, my point remains.

As for Frost it doesnt matter how skilled we think he is, he has to earn his way onto the team. We should be gunning to win a cup next year, we can't just hold a spot for Frost assuming he's good enough, when he may not be ready yet. I dont want our third line center to be sheltered next year, we need our 3rd line center to be legit good. If Frost is the 3C next year it should be because he earned it, or we struck out somewhere else, but that shouldnt be the plan.

This isn't some mediocre CHL player... he completely dominated that level and has no real holes in his game. CHL players can make the jump without AHL time and he certainly has done everything possible to make us think he can be one of those players. There's no reason to be scared of giving him a chance, we have nothing to lose and a ton to gain.

At some point he needs a shot and there's no reason it can't be next year. The team is unlikely to win a cup anyway, so at least use the year to get him experience.

This ridiculous fear of giving young players a chance is exactly why we're not in a playoff spot right now.

 

[baudib1]

Well, Wing positions are pretty arbitrary most of the time, in this case we could just put G at the Right side, my point remains.

As for Frost it doesnt matter how skilled we think he is, he has to earn his way onto the team. We should be gunning to win a cup next year, we can't just hold a spot for Frost assuming he's good enough, when he may not be ready yet. I dont want our third line center to be sheltered next year, we need our 3rd line center to be legit good. If Frost is the 3C next year it should be because he earned it, or we struck out somewhere else, but that shouldnt be the plan.

It's not about Frost earning his way onto the team. He's an upgrade on at least 1/4th of the lineup, we need to make space for him.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

It's not about Frost earning his way onto the team. He's an upgrade on at least 1/4th of the lineup, we need to make space for him.

Id arther make some sort of deal for some no doubt about it top 6 center. If not, then we shoulld completely rebuild and trade off the vets. Right now we're trying to play it half way and that will get us no where

 

[Striiker]

Adding a top tier forward prospect to an already good forward group isn't "trying to play it half way", it's normal roster building.

Frost should be 3C next year, signing a center would be stupid and merely block him.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I completely missed this game. Date with the wife this afternoon. We were kidless for 4 hours!!

We suck balls or what?

 

[FlyerNutter]

I completely missed this game. Date with the wife this afternoon. We were kidless for 4 hours!!

We suck balls or what?

Made me wish there were some men that pulled out some of these goofs were created.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

This isn't some mediocre CHL player... he completely dominated that level and has no real holes in his game. CHL players can make the jump without AHL time and he certainly has done everything possible to make us think he can be one of those players. There's no reason to be scared of giving him a chance, we have nothing to lose and a ton to gain.

At some point he needs a shot and there's no reason it can't be next year. The team is unlikely to win a cup anyway, so at least use the year to get him experience.

This ridiculous fear of giving young players a chance is exactly why we're not in a playoff spot right now.

Which young players have we not given a chance to this year? Sanheim has had playing time all year, eleveated under wilson/Gordon of course but it's not like Hak refused to play him. Provy has gotten top line minutes, Konecny has received fair minutes, Lindblom ditto, Patrick ditto. I mean unless Phil Myers was the missing link??? That really wouldnt have changed much as far as team success goes.

The point is, we assumed Provy was going to come in and prove himself as a bonafide #1, he hasnt. Patrick has been the up and down player he was last year, with slightly more ups. Konecny is a good offensive player, nothing too special but he is good. Lindblom is solid, nothing special but solid. Sanheim has made bigger strides, hes probably been the best D man on the team.

Point is, we need more proven talent. Whether it be Karlsson, Duchene, Panarin, or someone we pick up in a trade. This team has young talent, but we need more than this.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The odds of Fletcher legitimately filling multiple holes (top six forward, top nine center, & top four defender) this offseason through trades &/or free agency is pretty much slim to none. We’ll be forunate if he fills one of them legitimately let alone multiple.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Made me wish there were some men that pulled out some of these goofs were created.

 

[Striiker]

Which young players have we not given a chance to this year? Sanheim has had playing time all year, eleveated under wilson/Gordon of course but it's not like Hak refused to play him. Provy has gotten top line minutes, Konecny has received fair minutes, Lindblom ditto, Patrick ditto. I mean unless Phil Myers was the missing link??? That really wouldnt have changed much as far as team success goes.

The point is, we assumed Provy was going to come in and prove himself as a bonafide #1, he hasnt. Patrick has been the up and down player he was last year, with slightly more ups. Konecny is a good offensive player, nothing too special but he is good. Lindblom is solid, nothing special but solid. Sanheim has made bigger strides, hes probably been the best D man on the team.

Point is, we need more proven talent. Whether it be Karlsson, Duchene, Panarin, or someone we pick up in a trade. This team has young talent, but we need more than this.

-Sanheim getting least icetime of all defensemen, while Hagg and MacDonald played in the top 4
-TK bouncing around the lineup and struggling to crack 15 min per game, despite being a legit top line scorer and tied for 2nd most even strength goals on this team
-Myers being in the AHL instead of replacing one of Hag/Mac
-Lindblom playing on the 4th line after being replaced in the top 6 by Weise
-Patrick playing with Laughton and Simmonds on the 3rd line

Then if we want to talk about more youth misuse, Hagg and Provorov have been used too much.

The positive impact of many were lessened, while the negative impact of others was maximized. It shouldn't even be contested that this misuse cost us games and a playoff spot.



What this boils down to is you failing to properly evaluate these young players. You managed to undersell most of our youth, either intentionally or unintentionally, and are then underestimating Frost.

We don't need proven talent, we have proven talent. We need the talent we have to be properly used and then the 3C spot being taken by a rookie wouldn't be so horrifying to some.

 

[Lotusflower]

One of the good things about the front office not tanking is they brought up Gordon who exposed himself as incompetent.

Think about it, we might have a top 5 pick this year...but Gordon would still be coaching the young players in the AHL.
We retain a year on Hart's ELC...but he spends that year being coached in the minors by Gordon.

Small Victories.

Now you can throw him out with the rest of the trash and get some continuity, both in strategy and execution, between your NHL staff and your AHL coaching staff

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hart’s contract was counting this year regardless if he played in the AHL &/or NHL. You can’t slide 20-21 year old seasons.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

-Sanheim getting least icetime of all defensemen, while Hagg and MacDonald played in the top 4
-TK bouncing around the lineup and struggling to crack 15 min per game, despite being a legit top line scorer and tied for 2nd most even strength goals on this team
-Myers being in the AHL instead of replacing one of Hag/Mac
-Lindblom playing on the 4th line after being replaced in the top 6 by Weise
-Patrick playing with Laughton and Simmonds on the 3rd line

Then if we want to talk about more youth misuse, Hagg and Provorov have been used too much.

The positive impact of many were lessened, while the negative impact of others was maximized. It shouldn't even be contested that this misuse cost us games and a playoff spot.



What this boils down to is you failing to properly evaluate these young players. You managed to undersell most of our youth, either intentionally or unintentionally, and are then underestimating Frost.

We don't need proven talent, we have proven talent. We need the talent we have to be properly used and then the 3C spot being taken by a rookie wouldn't be so horrifying to some.

Doesnt change the fact that Nolan Patrick, the guy we have all awarded #2C playing time goes absent for any given month at a time. In February he had 9 points in 13 games which is good, but so far in March he sonly had 4 in 10, which is honestly more than I would have thought. In January he had 6 points in 11 games, but only HAD points in 2 of the 11 games. I dont care which players he played with, that blows. Not to mention he has all of 13 SOGs in 11 games THIS month. Thats not even close to #2 C production.

If we get a bonafide top 6 C in the off season he isnt going to stop developing, and having him as our 3rd guy would be an advantage. But going into next year that's not good enough. And if we deem that it is, then just unload G, Jake, JVR, and the rest of the vets to rebuild around the other prospects we have.

I agree with you that if we had properly deployed the young talent from the beginning of the year, we may have been a playoff team. But what Im syaing is that Im tired of just being and in again out again playoff team, I want to make a run. I just dont think we can afford to go into the off season assuming that the young guys are going to take these big steps forward

 

[tucson83]

I agree with you that if we had properly deployed the young talent from the beginning of the year, we may have been a playoff team. But what Im syaing is that Im tired of just being and in again out again playoff team, I want to make a run. I just dont think we can afford to go into the off season assuming that the young guys are going to take these big steps forward

i dont think the fo is thinking that way, they know they need more talent, that's why they traded most of their players so we can have salary cap space to spend in the summer, they want to win, making all the changes is clearly sending the message we are going all in.

it's the only reason why the young forwards/dmen are playing because they were shredding cap space.

 

[Foggy14]

 

[Striiker]

Doesnt change the fact that Nolan Patrick, the guy we have all awarded #2C playing time goes absent for any given month at a time. In February he had 9 points in 13 games which is good, but so far in March he sonly had 4 in 10, which is honestly more than I would have thought. In January he had 6 points in 11 games, but only HAD points in 2 of the 11 games. I dont care which players he played with, that blows. Not to mention he has all of 13 SOGs in 11 games THIS month. Thats not even close to #2 C production.

If we get a bonafide top 6 C in the off season he isnt going to stop developing, and having him as our 3rd guy would be an advantage. But going into next year that's not good enough. And if we deem that it is, then just unload G, Jake, JVR, and the rest of the vets to rebuild around the other prospects we have.

I agree with you that if we had properly deployed the young talent from the beginning of the year, we may have been a playoff team. But what Im syaing is that Im tired of just being and in again out again playoff team, I want to make a run. I just dont think we can afford to go into the off season assuming that the young guys are going to take these big steps forward

The only reason we’ve been missing the playoffs is coaching. This roster is easily good enough to make it, which is why adding a rookie 3C isn’t a problem.

The only way we miss the playoffs next year is if the coaching is still completely f***ed or if we have a major injury problem. I guarantee you it won’t be because we have a rookie 3C, even if he disappoints.

This roster has way too many legit players on it to be swayed by something like that.

And yes, if we add an overpaid/overrated C like Duchene, it absolutely could hurt the development of our key young players. We’ve seen how vets get used over kids, even if the kids are easily better.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I completely missed this game. Date with the wife this afternoon. We were kidless for 4 hours!!

We suck balls or what?

You made the right call missing the game. Unintentional or not. Hope you had a good day out

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

The only reason we’ve been missing the playoffs is coaching. This roster is easily good enough to make it, which is why adding a rookie 3C isn’t a problem.

The only way we miss the playoffs next year is if the coaching is still completely ****ed or if we have a major injury problem. I guarantee you it won’t be because we have a rookie 3C, even if he disappoints.

This roster has way too many legit players on it to be swayed by something like that.

And yes, if we add an overpaid/overrated C like Duchene, it absolutely could hurt the development of our key young players. We’ve seen how vets get used over kids, even if the kids are easily better.

I dont care if we make the playoffs, that isnt the point. We had almost no chance to do anything in 14, we had absolutely no chance of doing anything in 16, and BIG SHOCKER, we didnt do shit in 2018 either. If we stay the course, the same will happen in 2020.

Duchenne is just one name we could go after. If our prime concern at this point is a CHL player being "blocked", then that's a losing mentality. If it is, then we may as well just trade Giroux, Jake, JVR and the gang and start from scratch.

 

[baudib1]

If we get a bonafide top 6 C in the off season he isnt going to stop developing, and having him as our 3rd guy would be an advantage. But going into next year that's not good enough. And if we deem that it is, then just unload G, Jake, JVR, and the rest of the vets to rebuild around the other prospects we have.

Almost everyone around here is on board with getting Panarin. My plan B is trading for Spurgeon and Zucker.

But we have to have faith in Patrick and Frost to be 2C/4c at least next year, and 2C/3C by 2020. Because otherwise we don't have a viable plan to contend. We can't go out and get Panarin and a veteran D and a UFA 2C and a 3C.

If Patrick and Frost end up being busts, THEN we go out and dump Giroux and Voracek because the past 6 years of rebuilding would have been a total waste.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Fell asleep and missed the third. How were they?

They were tank-y, but not tank-y enough, because we as a collective group didn't wish for it hard enough. We suck.

 

[MarAlain MongYeo]

Almost everyone around here is on board with getting Panarin. My plan B is trading for Spurgeon and Zucker.

But we have to have faith in Patrick and Frost to be 2C/4c at least next year, and 2C/3C by 2020. Because otherwise we don't have a viable plan to contend. We can't go out and get Panarin and a veteran D and a UFA 2C and a 3C.

If Patrick and Frost end up being busts, THEN we go out and dump Giroux and Voracek because the past 6 years of rebuilding would have been a total waste.

Well, it's Chuck's job to get creative. Im not going to abandon ship if Patrick is our #2 C next year, but if big moves arent made then I iwll most certainly be a pessimist about the entire process.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

That group would be so talented that not even Hakstol could **** it up. We already have a great forward core, but adding Panarin and Frost, and pushing Laughton and Hartman to the 4th line, would give us a ridiculous amount of scoring potential. Not to mention the skilled defensemen we have...

Is that a dare...?

 

[TheKingPin]

Glad I missed this one. I thought we need a 1D, 2C and 1LW and a good goalie?