Prospect Info: 61st overall Egor Sokolov LW, CB, QMJHL

[RAFI BOMB]

Pretty sure that's a troll post there. Doubt it's serious. However, there is a grain of truth in that PD and current scout team don't focus enough on high end talent and skill, and value grit and safe picks too much. There needs to be an adjustment in the drafting philosophy to go after high risk, high reward players with potentially high offensive ceiling if they pan out of us. We have enough depth and hard-nosed middle of the pack type prospects in the system to take those gambles. I was advocating they do that starting with this recent draft, but they went completely in the opposite direction unfortunately. This would have been the perfect year to take some ch

The Sens shouldn't make any adjustments to their drafting philosophy. They are drafting in order to win the Stanley Cup not the President's Trophy. Fans will be skeptical and doubt the drafting philosophy until they see the results in the playoffs where this strategy will have the ability to demonstrate its effectiveness. The Sens are doing an excellent job building this team from a drafting and development standpoint. They also don't lack skill in their prospect pool. It won't take very long before the Sens are a very good regular season team and an excellent playoff team.

 

[SENStastic]

The Sens shouldn't make any adjustments to their drafting philosophy. They are drafting in order to win the Stanley Cup not the President's Trophy. Fans will be skeptical and doubt the drafting philosophy until they see the results in the playoffs where this strategy will have the ability to demonstrate its effectiveness. The Sens are doing an excellent job building this team from a drafting and development standpoint. They also don't lack skill in their prospect pool. It won't take very long before the Sens are a very good regular season team and an excellent playoff team.

Yes they've done a pretty good job in drafting and developing, not doubting that. But we do lack high end skill in the prospect pool, that's for sure, that's why I wanted them to start taking more chance on high reward/high risk player. I certainly hope they are drafting for the playoffs and the cup, and I think they've done a good job in selecting playoff warrior types, but that is not enough, we need a good mix of skilled players in there as well. The playoff success utilizing this current drafting strategy alone is FAR from certain, time will only tell, but we're definitely lacking in skill, we need more of it soon.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yes they've done a pretty good job in drafting and developing, not doubting that. But we do lack high end skill in the prospect pool, that's for sure, that's why I wanted them to start taking more chance on high reward/high risk player. I certainly hope they are drafting for the playoffs and the cup, and I think they've done a good job in selecting playoff warrior types, but that is not enough, we need a good mix of skilled players in there as well. The playoff success utilizing this current drafting strategy alone is FAR from certain, time will only tell, but we're definitely lacking in skill, we need more of it soon.

We aren’t lacking high end skill. Nor are we lacking in high risk picks.

 

[aragorn]

Yes they've done a pretty good job in drafting and developing, not doubting that. But we do lack high end skill in the prospect pool, that's for sure, that's why I wanted them to start taking more chance on high reward/high risk player. I certainly hope they are drafting for the playoffs and the cup, and I think they've done a good job in selecting playoff warrior types, but that is not enough, we need a good mix of skilled players in there as well. The playoff success utilizing this current drafting strategy alone is FAR from certain, time will only tell, but we're definitely lacking in skill, we need more of it soon.

They don't need high end skill, they have plenty of skill. They need players who can put the puck in the net consistently & they don't need fancy danglers for that given that most of the goals in the NHL are scored within 10 feet of the net. They are building a big tough team with players that can crash the net & score in those tight spaces with lots of traffic where most skilled players don't like to go. They are building a team that can be physically dominating & not get pushed around or quit when the going gets tough as we see in the playoffs every yr.

 

[SENStastic]

We aren’t lacking high end skill. Nor are we lacking in high risk picks.

we'll agree to disagree then

 

[SENStastic]

They don't need high end skill, they have plenty of skill. They need players who can put the puck in the net consistently & they don't need fancy danglers for that given that most of the goals in the NHL are scored within 10 feet of the net. They are building a big tough team with players that can crash the net & score in those tight spaces with lots of traffic where most skilled players don't like to go. They are building a team that can be physically dominating & not get pushed around or quit when the going gets tough as we see in the playoffs every yr.

Agreed, and the current group just doesn't have enough of it, both in playmaking, creativity/vision and scoring. I say we definitely need more of that in our talent pool. I get we're building a big tough team to play against, but I don't see it as enough frankly. I don't understand how people don't see that with Stutzle being the only potential elite offensive talent, it's not going to be enough. Really odd.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Agreed, and the current group just doesn't have enough of it, both in playmaking, creativity/vision and scoring. I say we definitely need more of that in our talent pool. I get we're building a big tough team to play against, but I don't see it as enough frankly. I don't understand how people don't see that with Stutzle being the only potential elite offensive talent, it's not going to be enough. Really odd.

The only guy in the top six right now that may not score 20 is Pinto, and that’s hedging because he’s a rookie. Bath, Stu and Brady all have 30 potential, and if Brown from last season is our new Brown he can push for it too.

Goal scoring has not been a problem for this team, like at all. I think some people are confusing a lack of fancy with a lack of putting the puck in the net. For a bunch of kids and rookies last year we filled the net nicely.

That team was never shut out; remarkable feat.

 

[SENStastic]

The only guy in the top six right now that may not score 20 is Pinto, and that’s hedging because he’s a rookie. Bath, Stu and Brady all have 30 potential, and if Brown from last season is our new Brown he can push for it too.

Goal scoring has not been a problem for this team, like at all. I think some people are confusing a lack of fancy with a lack of putting the puck in the net. For a bunch of kids and rookies last year we filled the net nicely.

That team was never shut out; remarkable feat.

They were playing in the north division, they're not exactly defensive powerhouses, it was the weakest one too

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Yes they've done a pretty good job in drafting and developing, not doubting that. But we do lack high end skill in the prospect pool, that's for sure, that's why I wanted them to start taking more chance on high reward/high risk player. I certainly hope they are drafting for the playoffs and the cup, and I think they've done a good job in selecting playoff warrior types, but that is not enough, we need a good mix of skilled players in there as well. The playoff success utilizing this current drafting strategy alone is FAR from certain, time will only tell, but we're definitely lacking in skill, we need more of it soon.

The skill in the prospect pool is just fine. You are undervaluing the skill level of the prospects and the type of skills that are necessary to succeed in the playoffs. I think a lot of people are having a similar reaction to you about how the Sens are building the team. I think people are perplexed because they have a set of assumptions about how a team should be built. It is an idea that skill and grit are separated when building a successful team. People think you combine high end pure skill types with gritty hard working support types and that is the recipe for playoff success. The implication and assumption is that gritty hard working types that are physical must lack skill and that simply isn't true. The Sens have decided to target skilled prospects who are also gritty, tough and hardworking. They are building a team that relies on the contributions of all lines and all players rather than a select few.

Be patient with this process and you will see the results. The Sens are going against popular conceptions so people will doubt them until they prove the merit of their approach. The Sens are building a team for the playoffs; it is designed specifically to succeed in playoff style hockey. It is a different approach than a lot of organizations take. It is going to surprise a lot of people.

 

[Ice-Tray]

They were playing in the north division, they're not exactly defensive powerhouses, it was the weakest one too

That’s an excuse. The boys scored the goals and have earned the praise. If they can’t score against other divisions this year then your point will have some validation.

I don’t think they’ll struggle to score goals.

 

[SENStastic]

The skill in the prospect pool is just fine. You are undervaluing the skill level of the prospects and the type of skills that are necessary to succeed in the playoffs. I think a lot of people are having a similar reaction to you about how the Sens are building the team. I think people are perplexed because they have a set of assumptions about how a team should be built. It is an idea that skill and grit are separated when building a successful team. People think you combine high end pure skill types with gritty hard working support types and that is the recipe for playoff success. The implication and assumption is that gritty hard working types that are physical must lack skill and that simply isn't true. The Sens have decided to target skilled prospects who are also gritty, tough and hardworking. They are building a team that relies on the contributions of all lines and all players rather than a select few.

Be patient with this process and you will see the results. The Sens are going against popular conceptions so people will doubt them until they prove the merit of their approach. The Sens are building a team for the playoffs; it is designed specifically to succeed in playoff style hockey. It is a different approach than a lot of organizations take. It is going to surprise a lot of people.

Yep pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There is a proven strategy that has worked the most in recent memory with a combination of highly skilled players supported by hard nosed gritty ones. A good balance of both to get you the cup. The Sens strategy seems to fly against it in accumulating and focusing on jack of all trade types, master of none. Decent in skill, good in tenacity, motor and toughness, but not super talented. I don't see that as good enough frankly. You summed it nicely, but I just don't agree that it's the best strategy to give us the best shot at a cup, especially when there is another strategy that already demonstrated it is a winning formula. We disagree on the building composition of the team. I say we still need more skill, you say we don't really need it as long as we stay with the current mold. We'll see in a few years, but we're not in agreement here.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yep pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There is a proven strategy that has worked the most in recent memory with a combination of highly skilled players supported by hard nosed gritty ones. A good balance of both to get you the cup. The Sens strategy seems to fly against it in accumulating and focusing on jack of all trade types, master of none. Decent in skill, good in tenacity, motor and toughness, but not super talented. I don't see that as good enough frankly. You summed it nicely, but I just don't agree that it's the best strategy to give us the best shot at a cup, especially when there is another strategy that already demonstrated it is a winning formula. We disagree on the building composition of the team. I say we still need more skill, you say we don't really need it as long as we stay with the current mold. We'll see in a few years, but we're not in agreement here.

None of the guys we have picked in the first are “Jack of all trades master of none” guys at all. I think your assessment of skill and value is seriously flawed.

You seem to feel as though Hoffman type guys are what we need, despite seriously flaws in their game. We definitely disagree there.

 

[SENStastic]

That’s an excuse. The boys scored the goals and have earned the praise. If they can’t score against other divisions this year then your point will have some validation.

I don’t think they’ll struggle to score goals.

Hope you're right, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Hope you're right, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.

Fair enough

 

[SENStastic]

None of the guys we have picked in the first are “Jack of all trades master of none” guys at all. I think your assessment of skill and value is seriously flawed.

You seem to feel as though Hoffman type guys are what we need, despite seriously flaws in their game. We definitely disagree there.

None of them have high ceiling is what I meant. Boucher is a prime example, great at hitting, but average in everything else. That's what I meant by jack of all trades, but not really a standout in offensive tools, which again, is what I hope we start going after. High ceiling potential players, not just high floor/low ceiling types

 

[aragorn]

Agreed, and the current group just doesn't have enough of it, both in playmaking, creativity/vision and scoring. I say we definitely need more of that in our talent pool. I get we're building a big tough team to play against, but I don't see it as enough frankly. I don't understand how people don't see that with Stutzle being the only potential elite offensive talent, it's not going to be enough. Really odd.

What's funny is that I don't see Stutzle as being the elite player others do, I see him as a perimeter player who needs bigger tougher players to make room for him & protect him otherwise he's just another player. He can score goals & make some nice plays occasionally, but he is still far from being a solid two way player but he certainly has the potential to be. Batherson IMO is a great playmaker, Tkachuk makes some beautiful passes, L. Brown IMO has the potential to be an excellent passer & playmaker, Formenton has great speed & Chabot is an elite skater IMO.

Scoring IMO is the most important skill & the dangling & skating around the perimeter I could do without honestly & as long as we have guys who can go to the net & score & win hockey games is what is most important. I prefer a physical hard hitting game like we saw in the playoffs & the dangling & perimeter stuff is regular season play that doesn't work as much in the playoffs. I think Ottawa has several players & prospects coming who are & could be just as good as Stutzle & better in other areas. Chabot, Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson, Pinto, L. Brown, Sanderson, Boucher, C. Brown, Sokolov, Grieg & even Formenton can all do some things just as well as Stutzle at the moment anyway & other things better. That is not to say that he won't become elite, he's not there yet & could still be a few yrs away, we'll see how he does next yr.

 

[yogibear]

They were playing in the north division, they're not exactly defensive powerhouses, it was the weakest one too

Didn’t the Sens kicked the SC finalist???

 

[SENStastic]

Didn’t the Sens kicked the SC finalist???

haha yes indeed. it was fun while it lasted

 

[Ice-Tray]

None of them have high ceiling is what I meant. Boucher is a prime example, great at hitting, but average in everything else. That's what I meant by jack of all trades, but not really a standout in offensive tools, which again, is what I hope we start going after. High ceiling potential players, not just high floor/low ceiling types

That’s just it, he’s not just average at everything. He missed almost the entire year! They see potential that was unrealized due to missed games, they see a steal. PD was very clear that they love his offensive upside.

Brady is not average skilled either.

Stu is high skill

Sanderson is high skill

The Giants kid has a really high ceiling skill wise as well.

I think goal scoring in junior is seriously over rated at the NHL level, but we have that covered regardless with Bath and Sokolov.

We already have Chabot for offensive skill as well.

We obviously don’t agree on the level of skill on the team, or the level of skill possessed by guys taken after Boucher, or about Boucher’s skill level.

All good, finally some legit hockey arguments

 

[Korpse]

You don't need to do fancy things with the puck to be skilled.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Yep pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There is a proven strategy that has worked the most in recent memory with a combination of highly skilled players supported by hard nosed gritty ones. A good balance of both to get you the cup. The Sens strategy seems to fly against it in accumulating and focusing on jack of all trade types, master of none. Decent in skill, good in tenacity, motor and toughness, but not super talented. I don't see that as good enough frankly. You summed it nicely, but I just don't agree that it's the best strategy to give us the best shot at a cup, especially when there is another strategy that already demonstrated it is a winning formula. We disagree on the building composition of the team. I say we still need more skill, you say we don't really need it as long as we stay with the current mold. We'll see in a few years, but we're not in agreement here.

For clarity purposes, do you consider Patrice Bergeron as highly skilled? Or how do you evaluate his skill?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

For clarity purposes, do you consider Patrice Bergeron as highly skilled? Or how do you evaluate his skill?

I vote Highly Skilled

 

[Cosmix]

The Sens shouldn't make any adjustments to their drafting philosophy. They are drafting in order to win the Stanley Cup not the President's Trophy. Fans will be skeptical and doubt the drafting philosophy until they see the results in the playoffs where this strategy will have the ability to demonstrate its effectiveness. The Sens are doing an excellent job building this team from a drafting and development standpoint. They also don't lack skill in their prospect pool. It won't take very long before the Sens are a very good regular season team and an excellent playoff team.

I will wait to see the results before stating that the Senators are doing an excellent rebuilding job.

 

[TheDebater]

Good guy Egor

 

[SENStastic]

For clarity purposes, do you consider Patrice Bergeron as highly skilled? Or how do you evaluate his skill?

Not purely offensively, but as a 2 way center then yes he is very skilled. But he is also playing with other elite talents in Marchand and Pasta, which helps alot. We don't have those in our system