Post-Game Talk: #44 | Flyers at Blues | January 15, 2024 | Flyers win 4-2

[Beef Invictus]

I watched a fair amount of this last night and finished it this AM. Zamula was pretty darn good, as was the entire Frost line. It's fun watching Tippett when he's fully confident. Uses his size and speed so well. He made a couple of low-IQ plays, but those were minimized by Frost and TK...TK is TK, not much more to say other than that.

Frost was on fire last night. He was the best I had ever seen him, not just offensively. He was engaged all night, and challenged the D anytime he had the puck. At one point, he found TK in the middle of the ice, and of course TK flubbed he pass. Mark that down as another HD scoring chance for TK that was originated from Frost. I'd love for them to keep the Tippett-Frost-TK line together for the foreseeable future. It's a pretty good compliment of skill sets imo.

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This roster, both forwards and defense, is much better than it's been over the last two seasons. It's been fun to see the growth of certain players, Tippett, Frost, Farabee, TK etc. The defense has been much better than I originally thought it might be. Seeler is continuing good play, Walker came out of no where, Zamula always had potential, but over the last 2-3 weeks has started to step forwards. It's nice to see. I am not holding any hopes that this team is 'dangerous' but I'm just enjoying the ride. It would be stupid not to trade Walker and/or Seeler, but whatever. I don't expect them to make the hard decisions, so if they do, it will be a plesant surprise.

Playing the guys with upside works

 

[deadhead]

If they keep winning idk, don’t you just let them keep the squad together and see what happens? At this point who f***ing knows, team has trouble losing lol

One D-man almost has to go at the TDL, another this summer. Probably Walker. With seven D-men deserving to start, it's a bit crowded, and if you're not going to extend Walker, you need to move him. Seeler would make more sense to extend, cheaper, shorter contract and would bring less in a trade - and he adds a physical presence they lack.

Andrae and Attard should push to start next year, with York, Sanheim, Drysdale, Zamula and Risto.
Bonk will be here in two years, maybe push in TC if he adds strength this summer.

At forward they have 10 forwards for 9 top 9 slots (11 if they want Poehling up in the lineup). So moving a forward at the TDL is a possibility, may depend on Brink stepping up, he's struggled for the last month and they may decide he's not ready for a full-time role.

Also watch the Lycksell - Laczynski - Tuomaala line in LHV, they're playing at a high level, if they sustain it for a while a promotion or two may be in order (but probably not Tuomaala, given his lack of experience).

 

[BillDineen]

The Flyers are one of the 2 or 3 most likely teams to go to the finals right now from the Eastern conference, and they should think they are. They get every goal and save when they need it. They play 60 minutes every game almost without exception. Every player has bought in. The coaching staff outside of the power play have been excellent. And the teams behind them who are supposed to be better are just not putting together, some of them specifically because of goaltending, which they don’t seem to be capable of addressing. There’s no evidence right now that this doesn’t continue. Just re-sign Walker and Seeler, and make Bonk and Andrae and Attard if that’s still a thing take the job away.

If you resign both, than Zamula doesn't have a spot. There is a logjam.

 

[Jettany]

This is the exact reason we need to be selling at the deadline.

Imagine this team with another 3 or 4 first round talents. That's how you build winners. We have the opportunity to make the playoffs AND sell. I'm looking for 2 first rounders at the deadline, which gives us 5 over the next two years.

That's vital not only to building a winning franchise, but a contender. I think Walker gets a first, Seeler probably commands a second at this point, Laughton will get a low first because of his PK ability.

Cates replaces Laughton
Drysdale replaces Walker
Staal/Belpedio/Attard/Mete replaces Seeler.

Do we take a hit? Absolutely. Is it worth taking a hit? Absolutely.

Can bring up Attard and/or Andrae to replace Seeler. I still say we are 2 months to the deadline. Lots of time for them to hit many potholes. Best part of the run is they are getting a lot from the young players.

 

[ybnvs]

Look what the cat dragged in...

 

[GKJ]

This is the exact reason we need to be selling at the deadline.

Imagine this team with another 3 or 4 first round talents. That's how you build winners. We have the opportunity to make the playoffs AND sell. I'm looking for 2 first rounders at the deadline, which gives us 5 over the next two years.

That's vital not only to building a winning franchise, but a contender. I think Walker gets a first, Seeler probably commands a second at this point, Laughton will get a low first because of his PK ability.

Cates replaces Laughton
Drysdale replaces Walker
Staal/Belpedio/Attard/Mete replaces Seeler.

Do we take a hit? Absolutely. Is it worth taking a hit? Absolutely.

That makes sense to do if you’re rebuilding, but they’re not rebuilding. This is not a rebuild. I just never heard of a team that’s second in the division and reacting to the way they are playing by sending people out for future assets.

If you resign both, than Zamula doesn't have a spot. There is a logjam.

Contending teams always have extra defensemen.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I hear you and agree that there will be an enormous missed opportunity to take multiple swings at top-end talent. How much Briere and company fool themselves into thinking this team is sustainably good remains to be seen. This will happen despite my mood about them.

Yeah I'm happy for anybody that can buy into the team. I want to be able to becauae at this point it is what it is. Hopefully by playoffs I'm feeling it more.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I was told the losses are really staring to pile up.

More than halfway through the season, the Flyers are 2nd in the Metro and 11th in the NHL in points percentage. Fire Torts.

BackStreets Back Alright !!!!

Walker has to 10000% be traded.

Are there any actual reports on Drysdale and Couts ?

 

[BernieParent]

Yeah I'm happy for anybody that can buy into the team. I want to be able to becauae at this point it is what it is. Hopefully by playoffs I'm feeling it more.

I wouldn't say I am buying into what they are doing because I don't see a path to success beyond just this oddball season. For one, they have had very good injury luck: Couturier walking in from the hospital bed of the past couple of seasons to pick up his 1C play, no injuries to top line/pairing players, Ersson standing on his head while Hart took a few sick days, Cates not being missed while he got back to health. I still believe this orange juggernaut will turn back into a pumpkin at some point so I am trying to see the happiness in wins and losses for now.

 

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

It’s crazy the pace Zamula is developing at, dudes huge 6’3 200, smooth player. Idk there aint a damn person on this board who coulda expected all this, insanity lol

 

[Random Forest]

That makes sense to do if you’re rebuilding, but they’re not rebuilding. This is not a rebuild. I just never heard of a team that’s second in the division and reacting to the way they are playing by sending people out for future assets.




Contending teams always have extra defensemen.

I’m just not interested in parsing the definition of “rebuild” and then being mad because they don’t meet it. I’m much more concerned with making smart roster moves and building a competitive long term team than I am with them narrowly focusing on what it means to “rebuild”.

They have five u24 players regularly in the top six (Foerster, Frost, Brink, Tippett, Farabee). They have three u23 defenders playing core roles (Zamula, York, Drysdale). All of them are getting serious minutes and showing strong signals of positive development. They’re not depleted in terms of prospects, and they have several high value picks in the next couple drafts. They have non-core assets that could be sold for more picks.

Yes, you could sell everyone over the age of 26, and make it a formal “rebuild”, and you can make a case that it would be the optimal strategy, but it comes down to whether you think it’s possible to build a sustainable, competitive team without doing that. There’s also developmental risk in tearing it all down. Would those u24 players show strong development on a basement team? Maybe Frost would be better off because it means more forced opportunity, but I think Foerster, Brink, Tippett, Farabee, York, and Zamula all would be negatively impacted by having to play a couple years on a basement team. That matters too.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Look what the cat dragged in...

weird how both left at the sametime and returned same way.

thats odd

 

[BritainStix]

That makes sense to do if you’re rebuilding, but they’re not rebuilding. This is not a rebuild. I just never heard of a team that’s second in the division and reacting to the way they are playing by sending people out for future assets.




Contending teams always have extra defensemen.

I mean, they have literally stated we are rebuilding. Multiple times. This run changes nothing. We aren't contenders right now, and we won't be for another year or two at best.

This is where good GMs make bank. When your team is overperforming and pumping their own trade value. You sell high on that while continuing to foster an environment for young players to succeed.

We must have one of the youngest teams in the entire league. That core will grow over 4-5 years. You don't throw that away for a one and done.

 

[GKJ]

I mean, they have literally stated we are rebuilding. Multiple times. This run changes nothing. We aren't contenders right now, and we won't be for another year or two at best.

This is where good GMs make bank. When your team is overperforming and pumping their own trade value. You sell high on that while continuing to foster an environment for young players to succeed.

We must have one of the youngest teams in the entire league. That core will grow over 4-5 years. You don't throw that away for a one and done.

Just because they said it doesn’t mean they’re doing it. They could easily just be saying it because they think they’re supposed to because one of the biggest criticisms of the Fletcher reign was the lack of clear direction, and the only way to have a clear message is to say you’re rebuilding. And this is definitely the dumbest fan base in the city, they’ll eat up whatever shit they serve you and thank them for it. But what you’re doing and what people believe is not necessarily the same

 

[VladDrag]

I’m just not interested in parsing the definition of “rebuild” and then being mad because they don’t meet it. I’m much more concerned with making smart roster moves and building a competitive long term team than I am with them narrowly focusing on what it means to “rebuild”.

They have five u24 players regularly in the top six (Foerster, Frost, Brink, Tippett, Farabee). They have three u23 defenders playing core roles (Zamula, York, Drysdale). All of them are getting serious minutes and showing strong signals of positive development. They’re not depleted in terms of prospects, and they have several high value picks in the next couple drafts. They have non-core assets that could be sold for more picks.

Yes, you could sell everyone over the age of 26, and make it a formal “rebuild”, and you can make a case that it would be the optimal strategy, but it comes down to whether you think it’s possible to build a sustainable, competitive team without doing that. There’s also developmental risk in tearing it all down. Would those u24 players show strong development on a basement team? Maybe Frost would be better off because it means more forced opportunity, but I think Foerster, Brink, Tippett, Farabee, York, and Zamula all would be negatively impacted by having to play a couple years on a basement team. That matters too.

The one thing that is getting me is the best players on this team are 26 and older (TK, Sanheim, Couts), and apart from Drysdale, there really isn't anything on the current roster that suggest potentially elite talent. Obviously, you have Michkov coming, but you need players with him. We saw what happens when you have a top 10 forward in the league and nothing else on the team with Giroux. I'm not interested in that again.

So, the team needs 1-2 more pieces of elite talent IMO. They will not be picking top 5 anytime soon (barring a statistical anomaly), so they need to figure out other ways to acquire that. Those other ways are going to cost assets. So, they have to acquire assets when they can. Walker is that - he should bring back at minimum a second round pick.

 

[Curufinwe]

I mean, they have literally stated we are rebuilding. Multiple times.

They didn't trade Laughton. They healthy scratched their only good center aged under 30 eleven times already. They healthy scratched Zamula many times for a vet on his last legs. They're going to extend 30 year old Seeler. Deslauries has played 30 more games than he should have.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

 

[Random Forest]

The one thing that is getting me is the best players on this team are 26 and older (TK, Sanheim, Couts), and apart from Drysdale, there really isn't anything on the current roster that suggest potentially elite talent. Obviously, you have Michkov coming, but you need players with him. We saw what happens when you have a top 10 forward in the league and nothing else on the team with Giroux. I'm not interested in that again.

So, the team needs 1-2 more pieces of elite talent IMO. They will not be picking top 5 anytime soon (barring a statistical anomaly), so they need to figure out other ways to acquire that. Those other ways are going to cost assets. So, they have to acquire assets when they can. Walker is that - he should bring back at minimum a second round pick.

Sure, but Walker isn’t going to get you the elite talent anyway.

I don’t think it’s strange that the best players are 26 and older. None of those guys took the step to being elite/high impact players until they were ~25. Obviously you wish you could have a franchise player at age 20, but those are very rare pieces. And we might actually have one with Michkov.

I guess I just don’t get what the problem is. You’re right that we need elite young talent, but Michkov and Drysdale are pretty good foundational pieces. And you have to hope Frost, Farabee, Foerster, and Brink continue developing (like Konecny and Sanheim did) so that at least one or two of them can be high impact players at age 25.

And then in a year or two when hopefully the team continues developing and you really need that “one missing piece”, that’s when you start considering the price you might pay to acquire one. It’s just not obvious to me that the tear down option gives the team a higher chance of being a contender. Let’s say they blew it all up tomorrow and win the lottery — obviously not going to happen, but for discussion’s sake — is the team better positioned with Celebrini + Michkov if it means trading Konecny, Couturier, and Sanheim? Maybe. But it’s not obvious that it would work out, and there are plausible paths this team can take to get competitive without doing that.

 

[Random Forest]

They didn't trade Laughton. They healthy scratched their only good center aged under 30 eleven times already. They healthy scratched Zamula many times for a vet on his last legs. They're going to extend 30 year old Seeler. Deslauries has played 30 more games than he should have.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

They’re also investing heavily in the development of several quality u24 players. Your points are not wrong, but you’re omitting context that doesn’t confirm you assessment of the team’s direction.

York is playing quality minutes. Zamula is QBing PP1. Foerster is getting a ton of ice time. Frost is getting 1C time with Couturier out. Tippett is getting quality opportunity and making good with it. All are equally true as your points. Neither narrative is 100% true.

 

[ajgoal]

They didn't trade Laughton. They healthy scratched their only good center aged under 30 eleven times already. They healthy scratched Zamula many times for a vet on his last legs. They're going to extend 30 year old Seeler. Deslauries has played 30 more games than he should have.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

 

[Jettany]

They didn't trade Laughton. They healthy scratched their only good center aged under 30 eleven times already. They healthy scratched Zamula many times for a vet on his last legs. They're going to extend 30 year old Seeler. Deslauries has played 30 more games than he should have.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

You would have thought playing the bums would have helped the tank. Is that confirmed on Seeler? I only saw a hypothetical.

The one thing that is getting me is the best players on this team are 26 and older (TK, Sanheim, Couts), and apart from Drysdale, there really isn't anything on the current roster that suggest potentially elite talent. Obviously, you have Michkov coming, but you need players with him. We saw what happens when you have a top 10 forward in the league and nothing else on the team with Giroux. I'm not interested in that again.

So, the team needs 1-2 more pieces of elite talent IMO. They will not be picking top 5 anytime soon (barring a statistical anomaly), so they need to figure out other ways to acquire that. Those other ways are going to cost assets. So, they have to acquire assets when they can. Walker is that - he should bring back at minimum a second round pick.

I do believe sanheim and Tk each have 6 good years left barring injury. Coots is Coots.

 

[BritainStix]

They didn't trade Laughton. They healthy scratched their only good center aged under 30 eleven times already. They healthy scratched Zamula many times for a vet on his last legs. They're going to extend 30 year old Seeler. Deslauries has played 30 more games than he should have.

Pay attention to what they do, not what they say.

Might want to take your own advice there.

Their going to extend Seeler? So now we are just taking things that might happen as fact?

The Laughton trade rumour was debunked by the actual team he was rumoured to join.

The handling of Frost and Zamula has been poor IMO, but then they are both playing exceptionally well right now. I'm not sure why that has any relation to selling while we are rebuilding though.

Just because they said it doesn’t mean they’re doing it. They could easily just be saying it because they think they’re supposed to because one of the biggest criticisms of the Fletcher reign was the lack of clear direction, and the only way to have a clear message is to say you’re rebuilding. And this is definitely the dumbest fan base in the city, they’ll eat up whatever shit they serve you and thank them for it. But what you’re doing and what people believe is not necessarily the same

Sigh....we're gonna do this shit again? You're literally complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet.

You are aware that we replaced our GM right?

 

[Random Forest]

Might want to take your own advice there.

Their going to extend Seeler? So now we are just taking things that might happen as fact?

The Laughton trade rumour was debunked by the actual team he was rumoured to join.

The handling of Frost and Zamula has been poor IMO, but then they are both playing exceptionally well right now. I'm not sure why that has any relation to selling while we are rebuilding though.


Sigh....we're gonna do this shit again? You're literally complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet.

You are aware that we replaced our GM right?

I think the misanthropes have a tendency to take one or two legitimate or semi-legitimate gripes and extrapolate them across everything.

Frost has been jerked around? —> “OMG all the kids are being screwed and this team never gives them a fair shake!!!”

Laughton wasn’t traded? —> “AHHH this team doesn’t know that it needs to sell assets!!”

And then every other little thing (eg, Brink being scratched) or even thing that hasn’t even come to fruition yet (eg, Seeler, Walker) is contrived into being evidence of those gripes. Then when you push back citing contrary evidence, you get references to things that happened under Fletcher (eg, Gostisbehere) as if it’s evidence that these things are still systematic issues.

 

[mr4tno]

I mean, they have literally stated we are rebuilding. Multiple times. This run changes nothing. We aren't contenders right now, and we won't be for another year or two at best.

This is where good GMs make bank. When your team is overperforming and pumping their own trade value. You sell high on that while continuing to foster an environment for young players to succeed.

We must have one of the youngest teams in the entire league. That core will grow over 4-5 years. You don't throw that away for a one and done.

That is actually the Flyers creedo, only with a "do" replacing the "don't". They have been doing that for the past 50-ish years. Always buyers but never really buying anything that is worth much....

 

[Beef Invictus]

Might want to take your own advice there.

Their going to extend Seeler? So now we are just taking things that might happen as fact?

The Laughton trade rumour was debunked by the actual team he was rumoured to join.

The handling of Frost and Zamula has been poor IMO, but then they are both playing exceptionally well right now. I'm not sure why that has any relation to selling while we are rebuilding though.


Sigh....we're gonna do this shit again? You're literally complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet.

You are aware that we replaced our GM right?

We replaced our GM with someone from the old regime, trained by them! The old guy's intern! The old regime is the new regime! I positively think that's great though. Look at that continuity! Look at the steady employment! It's good for the economy.

 

[Random Forest]

Does Briere not have his own brain independent of Chuck Fletcher’s? Was not aware that Fletcher created an avatar designed to look and talk like Danny Briere but carry out Fletcher’s every last thought. That’s pretty nifty, though I would have picked someone a little better looking, tbh.