#43 wake up or trade him before 2020 season

[4thline]

Well, actually it is:

Rank	Team	Points	Cap Hit for Top 3 Centres
1	TBL	88	9.85
2	WPG	75	14.33
	San Jose	75	18.63
4	Calgary	74	13.68
5	Toronto	73	27.10
6	NYI	72	7.86
	Boston	72	15.05
8	NSH	71	18.10
9	Montreal	69	7.16
10	WSH	69	18.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If Tampa's combined hit is 9.85 then Toronto's is in the 16 range. Do try to post honestly

 

[Durrr]

If Tampa's combined hit is 9.85 then Toronto's is in the 16 range. Do try to post honestly

That's what struck me as odd. Stamkos is more then 10% by himself on his current cap hit. Just realized those are not percentages though, oopsie. Tampa is still not at 9.85.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

He had a nice game last night, if he has more of those I doubt he's ever traded. If he's not able to produce offensively however you could easily have a cheaper option as third line center. Both of these statements are true and not an attack or a defense of Kadri.

Personally I think he stays with us until his contract is up and then walks as a UFA, We won't be able to afford the salary he wants, nor should we pay it. That's not Kadri being greedy either, he deserve to make market value.

 

[RLF]

That's what struck me as odd. Stamkos is more then 10% by himself on his current cap hit. Just realized those are not percentages though, oopsie. Tampa is still not at 9.85.

If you use Stamkos, Point, Cirelli it is about $9.9M. That said, The Leafs right now are only about $19.2 even if Matthews gets all of his bonuses.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadri is playing great, coming into stride again after a cold streak, and is on an extremely team friendly contract.
Its like there is a screw loose is some people's brains, you can't argue with them.

I hate to say it but it looks like you're right.

Don't trade him until at least 2021.

Yeah always listen to offers of course but I think the odds of him going anywhere before the 2021 TDL are very slim.

He had a nice game last night, if he has more of those I doubt he's ever traded. If he's not able to produce offensively however you could easily have a cheaper option as third line center. Both of these statements are true and not an attack or a defense of Kadri.

Personally I think he stays with us until his contract is up and then walks as a UFA, We won't be able to afford the salary he wants, nor should we pay it. That's not Kadri being greedy either, he deserve to make market value.

Cheaper options are always possible at any position, the problem in Kadri's case is that because he's been outperforming his cap hit for years, a cheaper option is likely to be a big downgrade. I think the likelihood of Kadri being traded depends less on how he plays and more on who his replacement would be and there's nobody in sight ATM. Not just at the C position but we're also lacking in the grit dept. and that's pretty important as well, at least I think it is.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Well, actually it is:

Rank	Team	Points	Cap Hit for Top 3 Centres
1	TBL	88	9.85
2	WPG	75	14.33
	San Jose	75	18.63
4	Calgary	74	13.68
5	Toronto	73	27.10
6	NYI	72	7.86
	Boston	72	15.05
8	NSH	71	18.10
9	Montreal	69	7.16
10	WSH	69	18.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

LOL. This chart is a joke and you know it. Come on, you're better than this.

 

[Pookie]

So you're just going to include Matthews future AAV on our cap, but not update any of the other teams? Point in Tampa? Connor in Winnipeg? The kid who's name I can't spell in Montreal? Barzal in NYI? Leaving out comparable teams who have won the cup like the Pens and Hawks .


That list is a joke.

If they don't have contracts, you can't make up a value. I did count those that did.

However, for Montreal to reach 27M or NYI to reach that, they have to hand out $20M contracts to Kotkaniemi or Barzal

You are welcomed to the do the whole league if you like. For starters, I can give you what you asked for:

Pittsburgh $19.45M
Chicago: $15.863

See, what tends to happen league wide is that teams pay their stars and then have to find ELC replacements for the bottom 6.

There's a joke here but it's not the list.

 

[Durrr]

If they don't have contracts, you can't make up a value. I did count those that did.

However, for Montreal to reach 27M or NYI to reach that, they have to hand out $20M contracts to Kotkaniemi or Barzal

You are welcomed to the do the whole league if you like. For starters, I can give you what you asked for:

Pittsburgh $19.45M
Chicago: $15.863

See, what tends to happen league wide is that teams pay their stars and then have to find ELC replacements for the bottom 6.

There's a joke here but it's not the list.

Yeah, sure. You could have easily slotted Point in for a 10-11 million dollar deal, included their actual #3 C and labeled it as such, but didn't because it takes away from your narrative.

 

[Pookie]

If Tampa's combined hit is 9.85 then Toronto's is in the 16 range. Do try to post honestly

Here:
Centers: Point, Stamkos, Cirelli
Team Line Combinations

Cap:
Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Point (.686) no deal for 2019-2020
Stamkos (8.5)
Pirelli (.738) signed through next year

For San Jose, Couture's cap hit goes up by 2M next year, like Matthews', it was included in the list.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah, sure. You could have easily slotted Point in for a 10-11 million dollar deal, included their actual #3 C and labeled it as such, but didn't because it takes away from your narrative.

Put Point in for 11M if you like and guess away at each roster spot that will change over in the off season.

It won't change the fact that we have committed the most $$$ towards C's by a long shot.

Narrative is simply reflecting the facts.

And regardless of how we stack up... we clearly have a Cap issue with Muzzin on the books and Marner about to go on it.

Like every other team in the league, they need to find value in the bottom 6 to feed the top 6.

Deal with it.

 

[4thline]

Yeah, sure. You could have easily slotted Point in for a 10-11 million dollar deal, included their actual #3 C and labeled it as such, but didn't because it takes away from your narrative.

Pfft, comparative consistency is so last year.

 

[Pookie]

LOL. This chart is a joke and you know it. Come on, you're better than this.

Explain...

The Original Point was: 33% OF CAP SPENT ON 3 Cs is not insane

Methodology: OP included Matthews' Extension in making that point

Test: That's a list of the top performing teams in the league. It took every team's top 3 C's and referenced data for their committed cap hits going forward.

Where extensions (ie. Matthews, Couture) where inked, they were included. Where a player didn't have an extension, the current amount was included. Some teams have no pending RFA's/UFAs. Their current amounts were also included.

How else would you address the OP's point? Make up data for the other teams in the league?

C'mon

 

[Durrr]

Explain...

The Original Point was: 33% OF CAP SPENT ON 3 Cs is not insane

Methodology: OP included Matthews' Extension in making that point

Test: That's a list of the top performing teams in the league. It took every team's top 3 C's and referenced data for their committed cap hits going forward.

Where extensions (ie. Matthews, Couture) where inked, they were included. Where a player didn't have an extension, the current amount was included. Some teams have no pending RFA's/UFAs. Their current amounts were also included.

How else would you address the OP's point? Make up data for the other teams in the league?

C'mon

The list would be better if you just included top 3 paid forwards....the fact that Toronto has 3 fantastic centers is not a negative in anyway. It makes us the deepest team in the league upfront.

 

[Pookie]

Pfft, comparative consistency is so last year.

Psst...

It's weird that a team would spend 33% of their cap on 3 centre's who are currently the top 4 forwards on the team. That's insane

Do you think @wmark included Matthews' extension in that 33%?

So including it while addressing his point is considered responding to the argument.

If you don't like the picture, that's fine. Ignore it for a few more months. It will be on display next year.

 

[Durrr]

Psst...



Do you think @wmark included Matthews' extension in that 33%?

So including it while addressing his point is considered responding to the argument.

If you don't like the picture, that's fine. Ignore it for a few more months. It will be on display next year.

You realize that poster was probably being sarcastic right?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Kadri gives us the top 1-2-3 centres in the league. So yeah we are going to pay more for being the best. That is life. I would rather be strong at centre then anywhere else. Defense next. Then goalie. I write goalie last because outside of Roy and Brodeur not many others who could play strong every year on a big contract. Even Price has issues. He is likely still the best but too much in a goalie is really risky.

 

[araisarena]

think you won't see Kadri pushed out for another 2-4 years as I see us probably drafting a center first round next year in a deep 2020 draft and develop him and when he's ready then either package Kadri or sign him back cheap to finish his career as a 3/4

 

[Pookie]

The list would be better if you just included top 3 paid forwards....the fact that Toronto has 3 fantastic centers is not a negative in anyway. It makes us the deepest team in the league upfront.

We could do that. But that wasn't what was asked.

So JT, AM and PM? And PM replaced by MM next year so update it again?

Does making another list make our cap crunch go away?

 

[4thline]

Psst...

Do you think @wmark included Matthews' extension in that 33%?

So including it while addressing his point is considered responding to the argument.

If you don't like the picture, that's fine. Ignore it for a few more months. It will be on display next year.

I think that when doing a comparison using tangential related current year performances and future costs while not atleast attempting to budget to keep things apples to apples shows analytic incompetence at best, out right dishonesty at worst.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri gives us the top 1-2-3 centres in the league. So yeah we are going to pay more for being the best. That is life. I would rather be strong at centre then anywhere else. Defense next. Then goalie. I write goalie last because outside of Roy and Brodeur not many others who could play strong every year on a big contract. Even Price has issues. He is likely still the best but too much in a goalie is really risky.

This year it's fine.

Next year is the challenge.

 

[Pookie]

I think that when doing a comparison using (out of date) current year performances and future costs while not atleast attempting to budget to keep things apples to apples shows analytic incompetence at best, out right dishonesty at worst.

Well then @wmark... please don't say we are spending 33% of our cap on 3Cs.

We can revisit this next year.

 

[4thline]

Well then @wmark... please don't say we are spending 33% of our cap on 3Cs.

We can revisit this next year.

Wmark made a ballpark statement in isolation, that was factually correct.
You either incompetently or dishonestly created a misleading comparison

He didn't make you do it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wmark made a ballpark statement in isolation, that was factually correct.
You either incompetently or dishonestly created a misleading comparison

He didn't make you do it.

Maybe it was the devil.

 

[NoName]

What, trade our "third line" centre who is really a very good 2C, who also provides some grit and physicality (on what is otherwise much more of a "soft" skill team) on a very undermarket value contract?

Um... why?

This is a team about to face a cap-crunch and Kadri is extremely cheap for what he provides; this is not a contract we should be looking to unload, espeially because we don't have anyone behind him to take his role.

 

[Pookie]

Wmark made a ballpark statement in isolation, that was factually correct.
You either incompetently or dishonestly created a misleading comparison

He didn't make you do it.

I created a comparison using his criteria.

That’s generally how responding works.

So....

Cap issue next year? Yes or no?