Post-Game Talk: #39 | Coyotes at Flyers | January 5, 2023

[deadhead]

Yet you've spent many, many posts justifying them.

You've spent a ton of time defending the woeful handling of Ghost. You celebrated bringing in Yandle because Ghost is, as you described him, a 7D. Your playoff stat cherrypicking was already debunked.

Are you ready to admit you were wrong about all of this?

What cherry picking? The round robin games were glorified practices.
In 16 "real" playoff games Ghost had 1 assist, that's a fact, and that's a dismal performance for an offensive defenseman.

I've always considered Ghost to be a third pair, PP QB on a good team.
He'd be useful in a sheltered role at 5x5 and as a QB on PP1.

But I don't think he's been a top 4 D-man since his injuries started, forget Zona, AMac was on the first pair for the Islanders, that didn't make him a top 4 D-man, as the Flyers discovered.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What cherry picking? The round robin games were glorified practices.
In 16 "real" playoff games Ghost had 1 assist, that's a fact, and that's a dismal performance for an offensive defenseman.

Focusing on raw points is laughable. Ignoring the most cowardly coaching performance in NHL history is laughable. Ignoring all context is laughable.

I've already given the full context to you. You reject it because it destroys your pro-management narrative.

 

[FlyerNutter]

What cherry picking? The round robin games were glorified practices.
In 16 "real" playoff games Ghost had 1 assist, that's a fact, and that's a dismal performance for an offensive defenseman.

Is your belief the franchise cares more about winning in the next few years.

Or is the notion of holding jobs, fetishizing the past, and trying to make it relevant to today’s game the actual goal here.

As an ardent defender, If you could give even two examples to say how they actually are trying to be successful. I’d be curious.

Nothing this franchise does shows they care about the product, or building anything close to a modern/entertaining winner.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is your belief the franchise cares more about winning in the next few years.

Or is the notion of holding jobs, fetishizing the past, and trying to make it relevant to today’s game the actual goal here.

As an ardent defender, If you could give two examples to say how they actually are trying to be successful. I’d be curious.

"Hiring Tortorella"

 

[FlyerNutter]

"Hiring Tortorella"

Nope. That’s a negative.

Try again.

This franchise doesn’t care about winning, as much as they preach about it. It’s about retaining jobs, and fondling over how they can make the past a part of today’s game.

It’s all a charade, and f*** all the bastards that cheer it on.

Such. Rebels. Outlaws.

 

[freakydallas13]

You guys realize that’s an AI, right?

Whoever it is, it's blocked now.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I don’t trade TK. He could get a great return. But Chuck is too goddamn stupid to get max value.

He will have potentially a great next couple years. Then the Flyers will do what the Flyers do. Give him an 8 year big money deal that will have diminishing returns sooner rather than later.

Agree with your post. Also the love him Laughton and the rest of the gang. So imo they wont move any of them.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

I mean sven bartschi did great in the ahl, boys he's really tore up the nhl hasn't he? I mean there has been alot of really good ahl players that have never been able to play in the nhl, the ahl is a terrible development league if we are being honest @deadhead

 

[Curufinwe]

He will have potentially a great next couple years. Then the Flyers will do what the Flyers do. Give him an 8 year big money deal that will have diminishing returns sooner rather than later.

They gave him a 6 year, medium money deal which he is more than living up to.

 

[04hockey]

all I know and SEE is they're playing their best hockey since before the first plandemic stoppage.....

how is that not encouraging ?

and

legitimately have young players showing consistent improvement.
enjoying watching their games

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They gave him a 6 year, medium money deal which he is more than living up to.

Where was it said he wasn't? Clearly talking about going forward.

 

[deadhead]

I mean sven bartschi did great in the ahl, boys he's really tore up the nhl hasn't he? I mean there has been alot of really good ahl players that have never been able to play in the nhl, the ahl is a terrible development league if we are being honest @deadhead

It's worse in the SHL, KHL and Liiga, professional leagues where development is an afterthought and most of the top players are veterans in their mid 20s to early 30s. Yet young players who dominate come over and are often successful in the NHL.

Reason is simple, at 19-22, playing against "men" who are physical mature and experienced players is the best preparation there is for the NHL. You often see prospects in the SHL get minimal PT at 18, gradually working their way into starting roles by 20 or so, and breaking out a year or two later as they develop confidence and experience.

Now one difference, Allsvenskan is a higher league than Metsis or the MHL, so Swedish players have less of a jump from lower to higher leagues.

Andrae dominating Allsvenskan at 19 and being a top SHL D-man at 20 is very impressive - 12th in scoring by D-men, only one player above him is a draft pick, Wallinder #32 in the same draft. And Andrae is doing this on a bad team.

Lycksell didn't break out until he was 22, and has continued that play in the AHL this season. Like most SHL players, he needs time to adjust to NHL ice (smaller ice, smaller windows and different angles).

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

You guys realize that’s an AI, right?

 

[04hockey]

edit, wrong thread

 

[Flyerfan4life]

People don’t care about success. Neither does the franchise.

It cares more about protecting a history, and image.

It’s all it’s about.

sadly this ^^^

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Can we talk about how it was stated that Kucherov wasn’t “killing it” in the playoffs?

Yeah, he’s only led the league in playoff scoring two out of the last three years (27, 32, 34).

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Is your belief the franchise cares more about winning in the next few years.

Or is the notion of holding jobs, fetishizing the past, and trying to make it relevant to today’s game the actual goal here.

As an ardent defender, If you could give even two examples to say how they actually are trying to be successful. I’d be curious.

Nothing this franchise does shows they care about the product, or building anything close to a modern/entertaining winner.

"be a f***ing Flyer"...

nuff said..

 

[FlyerNutter]

"be a f***ing Flyer"...

nuff said..

All it’s been about.

Keep the Flyers, the Flyers.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Focusing on raw points is laughable. Ignoring the most cowardly coaching performance in NHL history is laughable. Ignoring all context is laughable.

I've already given the full context to you. You reject it because it destroys your pro-management narrative.

Idiotstick is a f***ing mark for Uncle Schmuck and the useless management ass wipes.

 

[renberg]

so you are much happier that we tear the whole team down for bedard and if we dont get him then what? you are miserable now and if we dont get bedard, how are you going to feel watching a product full of 19 and 20 year old rookies and no talent at all and losing every year?

Unlike NJ, the Flyers are not going to be gifted a string of high draft choices like Pittsburgh had in the early 00's. ('03-Fluery; '04-Malkin; '05-Crosby; '06-J. Staal) I can see moving out the marginal or underperforming guys that are +26 years old but throwing guys under the bus for draft choices isn't always the best move. Some draft choices hits; sometimes they bust.
Looking at the Flyers, they do lack elite talent but the bottom end of the forwards and most of the defense has the potential to be solid. There is a base from which to build. Better that than the opposite such as Edmonton who have McDavid and Draisatl and little else.

 

[Beef Invictus]

so you are much happier that we tear the whole team down for bedard and if we dont get him then what? you are miserable now and if we dont get bedard, how are you going to feel watching a product full of 19 and 20 year old rookies and no talent at all and losing every year?

seems like all you care about is bedard and nothing else, we can crap the bed every year as long as we have him and yet, he can pull an eichel and left with nothing. seems like to you losing doesnt matter to these players, it matters alot.

Do you want the previous decade to just be repeated over and over and over? Do you think the last few years were good? Would you like to continue doing the last few years repeatedly?

Will you stop being a fan if the team takes steps to become good?

Will you still be enraged if they ever win more than one Cup?

 

[FlyerNutter]

It's worse in the SHL, KHL and Liiga, professional leagues where development is an afterthought and most of the top players are veterans in their mid 20s to early 30s. Yet young players who dominate come over and are often successful in the NHL.

Reason is simple, at 19-22, playing against "men" who are physical mature and experienced players is the best preparation there is for the NHL. You often see prospects in the SHL get minimal PT at 18, gradually working their way into starting roles by 20 or so, and breaking out a year or two later as they develop confidence and experience.

Now one difference, Allsvenskan is a higher league than Metsis or the MHL, so Swedish players have less of a jump from lower to higher leagues.

Andrae dominating Allsvenskan at 19 and being a top SHL D-man at 20 is very impressive - 12th in scoring by D-men, only one player above him is a draft pick, Wallinder #32 in the same draft. And Andrae is doing this on a bad team.

Lycksell didn't break out until he was 22, and has continued that play in the AHL this season. Like most SHL players, he needs time to adjust to NHL ice (smaller ice, smaller windows and different angles).

Not one example?

 

[deadhead]

Is your belief the franchise cares more about winning in the next few years.

Or is the notion of holding jobs, fetishizing the past, and trying to make it relevant to today’s game the actual goal here.

As an ardent defender, If you could give even two examples to say how they actually are trying to be successful. I’d be curious.

Nothing this franchise does shows they care about the product, or building anything close to a modern/entertaining winner.

What is the "franchise" these days?

Torts wants to build a team, he's been explicit about the need to add more talent and that it's a 3-5 year process.

Fletcher probably wants to hold on to his paycheck as long as possible. So he wants to win enough games to postpone his firing.

If Scott is going to retire after this year, he probably doesn't give a flying F anymore.

I don't think Torts and Fletcher are on the same page, but Torts and Briere might be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not one example?

I called it.

 

[Hurricane28]

Unlike NJ, the Flyers are not going to be gifted a string of high draft choices like Pittsburgh had in the early 00's. ('03-Fluery; '04-Malkin; '05-Crosby; '06-J. Staal) I can see moving out the marginal or underperforming guys that are +26 years old but throwing guys under the bus for draft choices isn't always the best move. Some draft choices hits; sometimes they bust.
Looking at the Flyers, they do lack elite talent but the bottom end of the forwards and most of the defense has the potential to be solid. There is a base from which to build. Better that than the opposite such as Edmonton who have McDavid and Draisatl and little else.

Sure there is a base, and I don't think anyone argues against that. They have some good players. There's no elite talent in this system or on the team and they don't have the pieces/picks to go get that elite talent. That leaves the only way coming through the draft. Which you are rarely going to get picking outside the top 5.

These moral victories mean nothing. You can build other ways, but this team, as is, cannot. The only way is picking in the top 3.