Post-Game Talk: #39 | Coyotes at Flyers | January 5, 2023

[Magua]

The Avs and Devils took a decade.

This is year 3 for the Flyers. And they haven’t even begun asset accumulation and have zero elite u25 players/prospects; assets are still going out; they have a GM who still hasn’t mentally prepared this is a rebuild. Tell me with a straight face this team isn’t taking nearly a decade.

 

[Striiker]

It's funny when "fans" on here and twitter complain that a full rebuild could take a few years of being bad, as if the current path Fletcher has us on doesn't guarantee the team will remain bad permanently.

If the options are be bad for ~5 years or be bad forever, the correct answer is obvious.

 

[Flyer lurker]

He's still out hustled by macewen on a regular basis which should be a huge red flag for a guy who has had to learn to play at pace since he was drafted. Macewen made space for frost earlier in the year which I said back then it would be interesting to see how he works with a legit power forward which this team lacks.

Putting Zac in same sentence as power forward is like like putting Drouin in the same sentence as hustle and defense.

 

[deadhead]

Oh so there wasn't a revolving door? Then why did you conclude there would be? Your analysis was that he was intent on a rebuild and would be ordering Fletcher to let him play a bunch of youth. As much as possible. And it was gonna be all about evaluating and developing them.

This is one of your more legendary backpedals, especially considering how vehemently you argued this at length for months. Your assumed start-of-season lineups had more prospects in them than we have now, and that was before the real process was supposed to start. Hilarious stuff, this.

No it wasn't. That's YOUR analysis.
I provided a clear description of what Torts did in CBJ (and to a similar fashion, in TB.

He doesn't play every prospect in the system, he starts by auditioning the veterans, then he plays the NHL ready kids to see what they can handle, finally auditions the future prospects toward the end of the season to judge their NHL readiness.

This is year 1, floundering is not rebuilding. Torts has started the rebuild, not sure Fletcher got the memo.

 

[Flyer lurker]

It's funny when "fans" on here and twitter complain that a full rebuild could take a few years of being bad, as if the current path Fletcher has us on doesn't guarantee the team will remain bad permanently.

If the options are be bad for ~5 years or be bad forever, the correct answer is obvious.

The parade for being the 25th best team is still on.

Risto can have his own float dressed as Nickelson joker and be throwing money away at the crowd but it has Flusher picture on it instead,

Torts float can have useless benches that don't work but having people kissing Tort's tail saying good job.

44/ZAC float can be filled with plether couches for fake toughness.

and the snider float which will feature a graveyard with Ed rolling over in his grave.

NUMBER TWENTY FIVE IS ALIVE!

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Love the irony of contrarians poo-pooing trying to rebuild through the draft because of a low percentage of winning the first overall, but charging straight ahead with the idea that this team can be competitive without drafting near the top of the draft. Which has an even lower percentage of happening.

Percentages Perscmentages. Be a f***ing Flyer already

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Avs took a decade...and won a Cup! Flyers took a decade...from my life. Very similar

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Avs took a decade...and won a Cup! Flyers took a decade...from my life. Very similar

and another decade and another... rinse repeat...

 

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

They're the level of dumpster fire the Penguins were before Crosby. Only way we get out is Bedard, organization is a dumpster fire and no ones getting fired, find a new team or quit hockey till it changes. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING.

 

[captainpaxil]

I love how you edited my comment to strawman my point. How clever

MacEwen is not outhustling or outworking Frost. Or really anyone but Hayes. He just happens to look like he's trying harder because he's so inefficient. Flailing around more does not mean harder working. Frost can actually win his puck and possession battles in ways MacEwen does not. He just doesn't look like a try-hard as he does it. The empty, pointless, losing churning of MacEwen is not impressive or a positive. He could be readily replaced and it would make the team immediately better.

Frost wins possession by beating players to the puck. If him and macewen were battling it's coming out with an ahl+ player attached to it. Recognizing your shortcomings is key to finding success.
Frost reminds me of a low budget version of voracek. He's skilled enough that he excelled at lesser levels but lacks the drive to be greater than his toolset. Voracek had size to fall back on which frost lacks which is why one was a 60 point guy and the other is hoping for 40.
Frost is as much a symptom of how bad this team is as any of the other players. He's not some glimmer of hope in the muck. He's laughton before going to the ahl and figuring out he's not a real first line forward despite being a first Rd pick.

 

[Larry44]

This is year 3 for the Flyers. And they haven’t even begun asset accumulation and have zero elite u25 players/prospects; assets are still going out; they have a GM who still hasn’t mentally prepared this is a rebuild. Tell me with a straight face this team isn’t taking nearly a decade.

At this point it will take 8-10 years to build a Cup-competitive team, IF they actually start now. None of the current players will be around then. Trade them all.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how the Avs “took a decade.”

 

[Curufinwe]

He's still out hustled by macewen on a regular basis which should be a huge red flag for a guy who has had to learn to play at pace since he was drafted. Macewen made space for frost earlier in the year which I said back then it would be interesting to see how he works with a legit power forward which this team lacks.

What a weird parody post.

 

[Striiker]

There must be multiple Frosts on this team because half the posts I see can't possibly be talking about #48 Morgan Frost.

 

[deadhead]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how the Avs “took a decade.”

Starting in 2008-09:
2009 draft, Duchene #3
2011 draft, Landeskog #2
2013 draft, McKinnon #1
2015 draft, Rantanen #10
2016 draft, Jost #10
2017 draft, Makar #4
2019 draft, Byranm #4 [pick for Duchene, along with Girard]

 

[Strawberry Fields]

You ever wrestle an Amish man? This is rhetorical.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Starting in 2008-09:
2009 draft, Duchene #3
2011 draft, Landeskog #2
2013 draft, McKinnon #1
2015 draft, Rantanen #10
2016 draft, Jost #10
2017 draft, Makar #4
2019 draft, Byranm #4 [pick for Duchene, along with Girard]

Talk to me when the Flyers make the playoffs four times during this “decade.” They’re already three years in so they better get stepping!

You know what, I’ll make it even simpler… talk to me when they have one season with 112 points during this coming time period.

While I’m here, remember when you said that you would want Fletcher out if he failed to make the playoffs consecutive seasons? What changed?

 

[FlyerNutter]

This team has done absolutely nothing to signify they are serious about acquiring top end talent through the draft. Not one damn thing.

Bullshit.

It's nice they had yet another alumni night to celebrate the past though.

 

[deadhead]

Talk to me when the Flyers make the playoffs four times during this “decade.” They’re already three years in so they better get stepping!

You know what, I’ll make it even simpler… talk to me when they have one season with 112 points during this coming time period.

While I’m here, remember when you said that you would want Fletcher out if he failed to make the playoffs consecutive seasons? What changed?

Nothing. When have I lobbied to keep Fletcher?
I just want the senior advisors and Scott to go with him.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Nothing. When have I lobbied to keep Fletcher?
I just want the senior advisors and Scott to go with him.

All those times that you minimize and absolve him of blame are an endorsement of him.

Stating that the man has made one error is an endorsement of him.

Comparing him to other general managers in a glowing light is an endorsement of him.

 

[freakydallas13]

I love how you edited my comment to strawman my point. How clever

Sorry, I thought your post was intimating MacEwan was a power forward, but on re-reading it I don't think it does.

Though this team doesn't have a power forward, so I'm unsure who you were talking about.

 

[deadhead]

All those times that you minimize and absolve him of blame are an endorsement of him.

Stating that the man has made one error is an endorsement of him.

Comparing him to other general managers in a glowing light is an endorsement of him.

No. It's just perspective. People here go to extremes, overrate their favorite players and exaggerated opinions.

Like how they could have gotten so much more for Giroux, yet no one can show me an example of a 34 year old rental forward who scores at less than a 2.0 pp/60 rate garnering a huge package at the TDL.

Fletcher did what the powers that be hired him to do, he got them to the playoffs in 2019-20, he doubled down in the summer of 2021 b/c they didn't want to fire AV and eat $15M. He's tried to both reload and compete b/c that's what the FO wants.

He may have not executed this strategy well, but it was a bad strategy to begin with, and that was the FO consensus.
So to me, it's not enough to fire Fletcher, you need to change the FO to one that embraces a rebuild and is willing to sell it to the fans.

 

[pit]

In the past 15 years, only 2008 Detroit and the 2019 Blues did not have a top 5 pick.

The Blues had Pietrangelo, who was 4th overall in 2008.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No it wasn't. That's YOUR analysis.
I provided a clear description of what Torts did in CBJ (and to a similar fashion, in TB.

He doesn't play every prospect in the system, he starts by auditioning the veterans, then he plays the NHL ready kids to see what they can handle, finally auditions the future prospects toward the end of the season to judge their NHL readiness.

This is year 1, floundering is not rebuilding. Torts has started the rebuild, not sure Fletcher got the memo.

It's literally what you argued for months. I always replied, simply, "they aren't going to do that." And they aren't.

Again, legendary backpedal.

Why were you so wrong!

 

[Beef Invictus]

I love how you edited my comment to strawman my point. How clever


Frost wins possession by beating players to the puck. If him and macewen were battling it's coming out with an ahl+ player attached to it. Recognizing your shortcomings is key to finding success.
Frost reminds me of a low budget version of voracek. He's skilled enough that he excelled at lesser levels but lacks the drive to be greater than his toolset. Voracek had size to fall back on which frost lacks which is why one was a 60 point guy and the other is hoping for 40.
Frost is as much a symptom of how bad this team is as any of the other players. He's not some glimmer of hope in the muck. He's laughton before going to the ahl and figuring out he's not a real first line forward despite being a first Rd pick.

Frost also wins possession by winning on the boards. He also has been using his body to shield the puck.

There is nothing MacEwen does that Frost doesn't also do, and do with better results.