Post-Game Talk: #35 | FLYERS (A) vs. Sabres (H) | Wednesday, Mar. 31, 2021 | Loss 6-1

[Beef Invictus]

At this point I think it's worth asking how much of the D structure that still existed last year was just leftover from Hakstol, and it's steadily decayed now with nothing put in its place.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You’re nitpicking over nothingburgers.

There are no nothing burgers in a capped league, especially since those guys have actually harmed the team by playing.

Everything matters. You have to seek efficiency from top to bottom instead of doing your friends favors.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Fletcher is well aware of what this team needs & that it needs changes. He’s been trying hard to make trades since the off-season. Unfortunately, the flat-cap, short season, & expansion draft make trades extremely difficult. And he’s not going to do something stupid just for the sake of making a trade.

He’s not afraid to make deals. Hell, he’s the son of “Trader Cliff,” who made more big trades than anyone.

Let’s take a breath & see what happens in the full off-season, after the expansion draft & hopefully with at least a somewhat increased cap. Unfortunately you cannot force trades if other teams are either unwilling or trying to rip you off.

Young players being called out publicly and benched constantly is what they need then ? See Morin and Farabee ice time is yesterdays shit kicking.

 

[MayonnaiseOreo]

I'd say anyone not named Couturier, Farabee, Provorov, or Hart should be on the trading block. I know some of these contracts borderline can't be moved but I'm sick of this core. I love Giroux but even I feel like he's potentially tradable. At least he'd have a chance to win a Cup.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Maybe because just trading players...for other ones...won't fix the system/coaching issue.

Hell...you might end up with Thompson playing against top lines instead of your Selke C. See how that "change" made us worse due to the coach?

So now there isn’t a player issue. Gotcha.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Young players being called out publicly and benched constantly is what they need then ? See Morin and Farabee ice time is yesterdays shit kicking.

Stop with the coddling of these marshmallow soft young players. Why do you think the vets are pissed at them?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wahhhh, the big mean boss called out Hart & his 4.04 GAA & .869 save %.

Wahhhh, Morin, who has barely played in years, let alone in the NHL, & is still frequently out of position, only played 10 minutes.

Wahhhh, Farabee didn’t get the minutes of $8M Jake or $5M TK.

Wahhhh, Sanheim plays timid because the coach is too mean.

Get outta here. No wonder this team stinks. They’ve got a bunch of soft kids who can’t handle a little adversity or criticism, & the fanbase wants to indulge them.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Stop with the coddling of these marshmallow soft young players. Why do you think the vets are pissed at them?

I hate kids today, but they need to be treated differently, just like every other top team does.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Wahhhh, the big mean boss called out Hart & his 4.04 GAA & .869 save %.

Wahhhh, Morin, who has barely played in years, let alone in the NHL, & is still frequently out of position, only played 10 minutes.

Wahhhh, Farabee didn’t get the minutes of $8M Jake or $5M TK.

Wahhhh, Sanheim plays timid because the coach is too mean.

Get outta here. No wonder this team stinks. They’ve got a bunch of soft kids who can’t handle a little adversity or criticism, & the fanbase wants to indulge them.

PYS

 

[Starat327]

You're right, you did say that.

I've been critical of AV as well. I don't like his lineup decisions. I think he needs to be fired for a shakeup. But I also think its wrong to over focus on him. To me the main issue of this team is individual regression more so than AV, although both areas are major issues.

This season's failure isnt entirely on AV, I agree 100%. The goaltending sucks. Some of the younger players are playing worse than they did last year. Some are having bad gaffes and stretch of bad play. Progression isnt linear, so if you (general, not you in particular) looked at last year and said "Sanheim was here this year, next year hell be here", you were setting yourself up to fail. Players have ups and downs. Im perfectly fine with saying Hart has played like shit (I believe if you were bored enough to search my post history, youll find me posting multiple times cautioning people about getting their hopes up and annointing him a 'franchise' goalie after his 1 season of play).

However, when you have this many people on the team all playing relatively poorly to their own respective levels? That's not normal. It would be normal for Hart to regress and Sanheim to progress, and maybe Myers levels out this year. But to have most of our young players all playing poorly (Save for Farabee) -- to me that sounds very much like a coaching issue. Im not in the room or on the ice, so i wont speak in definitives, but its statistically unlikely that this many young players (add Lindblom and Provorov into this group as well) are all having poor years at the same exact time on their own accord.

I dont think getting rid of AV magically fixes this team, and we win a cup as soon as we fire him and his gang of cronies behind the bench. That's also silly, and not a logical train of thought.

However, even ignoring the fact that making huge trades is hard right now because teams are keeping an eye on revenue/cap spend in light of COVID - whats easier to change, your entire roster, or your coaching staff? Again, it seems unlikely to me that this many players are just coincidentally all having bad years at the same time. If AV doesnt know how to get through to them, the logical answer isnt "ok, well then the player should go." There are very few coaches in any sport whose impact on the game itself is worth building your franchise around. Coaches need to be flexible in systems, and need to be able to work with the players they have - even if they arent fully succesful. AV demonstrated he could do it last year before the playoffs. There shouldnt be a reason he cant do it again.

 

[BernieParent]

As an aside, can we christen the month the team just made us suffer through as the Bataan Death March 2021?

 

[TheKingPin]

Retain and get a first for Laughton and do nothing else. Coaching sucks. Team playing like crap. Covid issues and other injuries. Expansion draft. This just such a lost season.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Retain and get a first for Laughton and do nothing else. Coaching sucks. Team playing like crap. Covid issues and other injuries. Expansion draft. This just such a lost season.

Raffl Laughton Haag, Braun, Gus, sell them all. Not one of them has a future with the team less Laughton but his salary makes it impossible.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'd say anyone not named Couturier, Farabee, Provorov, or Hart should be on the trading block. I know some of these contracts borderline can't be moved but I'm sick of this core. I love Giroux but even I feel like he's potentially tradable. At least he'd have a chance to win a Cup.

My list includes Sanheim and TK. I'd like it to include Giroux, but practically speaking at his age I don't think it can. I'm also not including Farabee, and I may be proven wrong on him in the future.

TK was freaking great until AV threw out the plan in the playoffs. He's produced now, but he's massively less visible out there and isn't driving play. TK is one where we are at significant risk of selling low and getting burned.

 

[marcsson68]

Making the roster worse isn't the change people want. Nor is it the answer. It's all we've gotten though.

In a nutshell what do you think:

A) another coach and we are a winning franchise
B) exchanging bottom line / pairing players and we are contenders
C) If not: Which big guns have to go and for what in return?

 

[marcsson68]

Making the roster worse isn't the change people want. Nor is it the answer. It's all we've gotten though.

In a nutshell what do you think:

A) another coach and we are a winning franchise
B) exchange bottom line / pairing players and we are contenders
C) If not: Which big guns have to go and for what in return?

 

[TheKingPin]

Raffl Laughton Haag, Braun, Gus, sell them all. Not one of them has a future with the team less Laughton but his salary makes it impossible.

I could see someone liking raffl and giving us a low low pick for him. The other guys I don’t see it this year. Seems to be a buyers market. Next year we need to be healthy and run with the kids, including D.

 

[Beef Invictus]

In a nutshell what do you think:

A) another coach and we are a winning franchise
B) exchange bottom line / pairing players and we are contenders
C) If not: Which big guns have to go and for what in return?

Another coach and we could be a contending franchise IF goaltending doesn't also collapse. The play in net is really bad. Much of it is likely tied to the complete lack of system in front of them; how can you anticipate plays in that environment? But a lot of it is just individual too, and I'm not sure it could be covered for enough.

This roster flat-out should be better than it is. It has been badly used. It's been so badly used that once more we are in the position where it's difficult to accurately judge it.

 

[Tripod]

So now there isn’t a player issue. Gotcha.

Can you tell me where I said that?

I am quite sure you have seen me blasting players for individual mental and physical mistakes.

What I am saying is that just moving players...for other players...won't fix the coaching/system issues.

They are BOTH issues...player issues(mental and physical)...coaching/systems issues. We should be looking to fix BOTH.

Again BOTH.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Another coach and we could be a contending franchise IF goaltending doesn't also collapse. The play in net is really bad. Much of it is likely tied to the complete lack of system in front of them; how can you anticipate plays in that environment? But a lot of it is just individual too, and I'm not sure it could be covered for enough.

This roster flat-out should be better than it is. It has been badly used. It's been so badly used that once more we are in the position where it's difficult to accurately judge it.

We also REALLY need Patrick to take a step forward. More like 3 steps.

 

[flyerslducks]

This season's failure isnt entirely on AV, I agree 100%. The goaltending sucks. Some of the younger players are playing worse than they did last year. Some are having bad gaffes and stretch of bad play. Progression isnt linear, so if you (general, not you in particular) looked at last year and said "Sanheim was here this year, next year hell be here", you were setting yourself up to fail. Players have ups and downs. Im perfectly fine with saying Hart has played like shit (I believe if you were bored enough to search my post history, youll find me posting multiple times cautioning people about getting their hopes up and annointing him a 'franchise' goalie after his 1 season of play).

However, when you have this many people on the team all playing relatively poorly to their own respective levels? That's not normal. It would be normal for Hart to regress and Sanheim to progress, and maybe Myers levels out this year. But to have most of our young players all playing poorly (Save for Farabee) -- to me that sounds very much like a coaching issue. Im not in the room or on the ice, so i wont speak in definitives, but its statistically unlikely that this many young players (add Lindblom and Provorov into this group as well) are all having poor years at the same exact time on their own accord.

I dont think getting rid of AV magically fixes this team, and we win a cup as soon as we fire him and his gang of cronies behind the bench. That's also silly, and not a logical train of thought.

However, even ignoring the fact that making huge trades is hard right now because teams are keeping an eye on revenue/cap spend in light of COVID - whats easier to change, your entire roster, or your coaching staff? Again, it seems unlikely to me that this many players are just coincidentally all having bad years at the same time. If AV doesnt know how to get through to them, the logical answer isnt "ok, well then the player should go." There are very few coaches in any sport whose impact on the game itself is worth building your franchise around. Coaches need to be flexible in systems, and need to be able to work with the players they have - even if they arent fully succesful. AV demonstrated he could do it last year before the playoffs. There shouldnt be a reason he cant do it again.

1000000% this and if fletcher doesn't want to fire AV, then get rid of the assistant coaches who are even worse. Some change is necessary for next year and the defense needs a new mind cus whatever yeo is doing is awful. Every single young defensemen has regressed this year and its unacceptable. We all know how bad the pp has been. You would think 3 veteran coaches know how to push the right buttons but these morons are as flabbergasted as we are.

 

[Tripod]

Maybe the important question to ask...is what Dman or goalies have EXCELLED under these coaches?

None

Some have played good, ok, passible, up and down....but no one has played great/well the entire time.

Coaches job is to maximize players strengths, minimize their weaknesses. Get more from the collective than they can individually. We are the doing the opposite.

 

[TheKingPin]

We also REALLY need Patrick to take a step forward. More like 3 steps.

He was playing pretty well. Actually carrying the puck and shooting.

 

[Starat327]

I'm going to put there here for @bennysflyers16 since we had this conversation earlier, and because it's infinitely more appealing than the Flyers gameplay currently. Time to break my fast...

 

[flyerslducks]

We also REALLY need Patrick to take a step forward. More like 3 steps.

bruh we need everyone to take 3 steps forward. This isn't on one player, niskanen leaving, or the vets who have actually played well this year. Every single young player we have on this team has been downright awful. Few good games here and there mixed with inconsistency all year long. Its insane how that has happened and continues to as well.

Farabee has been the only stud while Patrick, lindblom, sanheim, Myers, provorov, hart, and tk have had a brutal year. We go as far as these guys take us so hopefully they rebound soon. I can't imagine all of them regressing next year as well.

At least half of them should rebound, if not all of them.....they can't play as bad as they have this year can they?