Post-Game Talk: #35 | FLYERS (A) vs. Sabres (H) | Wednesday, Mar. 31, 2021 | Loss 6-1

[Ghosts Beer]

That‘s it. Wash me but don‘t make me wet. You will find this rule everywhere.

Right. You’ve got more than half the board wanting Fletcher fired for not changing the roster, but he waived Ghost & there’s outrage, & if one suggests trading TK, Sanheim, or Myers, the guys who may have actual trade value (Frost also) they are strongly against it.

Do you want a shakeup or not? Because trading Hagg, Raffl, Laughton isn’t shaking up shit, & Voracek & JVR have no trade value.

 

[renberg]

This summer will be a big test for him, for sure. Personally, I'm looking forward to it. Maybe we won't like it, but it should be interesting and when was the last time we could say that about a Flyers off-season?

IDK if the powers that be with the franchise realize how important it is. Year after year, tickets that once were impossible to acquire can easily be had. The Flyers are in danger of becoming a bad product in this town. Losing is one thing but paying money to watch a bunch of guys going through the motions of a game doesn't work in Philly.
Middleton got the message over the winter with the Phillies. He was chirping about not spending but then saw that he had to do that in order to survive financially. He had to re-sign JT. Realmuto is what this town loves; a competitor. The same goes with Girardi and DD. They have shown that they are a tough but fair management group. They don't play chicken **** head games with there players. Produce and you'll play; mess up and you're gone.
Fletcher needs to read that memo. Get guys in here that play hard every shift, every night. Look at the Isles. Not the most talented club but they are on their opponent hard all game long. No floaters there. That's what the Flyers once were and need to be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Right. You’ve got more than half the board wanting Fletcher fired for not changing the roster, but he waived Ghost & there’s outrage, & if one suggests trading TK, Sanheim, or Myers, the guys who may have actual trade value (Frost also) they are strongly against it.

Do you want a shakeup or not? Because trading Hagg, Raffl, Laughton isn’t shaking up shit, & Voracek & JVR have no trade value.

Making the roster worse isn't the change people want. Nor is it the answer. It's all we've gotten though.

 

[Curufinwe]

So I guess Gostisbehere wasn't the problem....... be wary young players in the Flyers lineup. Vigneault is coming for you next.

Ghost isn't young. Provorov and Sanheim are younger.

 

[Starat327]

Making the roster worse isn't the change people want. Nor is it the answer. It's all we've gotten though.

"People want change but aren't willing to move the players that aren't the problem, SMH my head."

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Fletcher is well aware of what this team needs & that it needs changes. He’s been trying hard to make trades since the off-season. Unfortunately, the flat-cap, short season, & expansion draft make trades extremely difficult. And he’s not going to do something stupid just for the sake of making a trade.

He’s not afraid to make deals. Hell, he’s the son of “Trader Cliff,” who made more big trades than anyone.

Let’s take a breath & see what happens in the full off-season, after the expansion draft & hopefully with at least a somewhat increased cap. Unfortunately you cannot force trades if other teams are either unwilling or trying to rip you off.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher is well aware of what this team needs & that it needs changes. He’s been trying hard to make trades since the off-season. Unfortunately, the flat-cap, short season, & expansion draft make trades extremely difficult. And he’s not going to do something stupid just for the sake of making a trade.

He’s not afraid to make deals. Hell, he’s the son of “Trader Cliff,” who made more big trades than anyone.

Let’s take a breath & see what happens in the full off-season, after the expansion draft & hopefully with at least a somewhat increased cap. Unfortunately you cannot force trades if other teams are either unwilling or trying to rip you off.

The guy thinks the team needs Prosser and Stewart. And the continued employment of this coaching staff, all who have seen complete collapses in their various realms.

This is not a guy in touch with its needs.

 

[deadhead]

Raffl, Gus and Laughton are gone in any case (unless they free up enough money to resign Laughton after the ED).
While they have a number of prospects who are potential additions next year (York, Zamula, Laczynski, Allison, Wisdom), they also need to rebalance the lineup.

Needs are obvious: top RHD, 1B goalie. If Morin shows he can start on the third pair, that adds physicality to the defense.

The goalie shouldn't be too hard, you want a veteran in his 30s on a 1-2 year deal who's happy to share duties with Hart, maybe Bernier?
The RHD will either require a big contract, significant trade assets or both.
After that it's a matter of opportunity and culture.

 

[Redpath]

"People want change but aren't willing to move the players that aren't the problem, SMH my head."

You don't think Myers, Sanheim, and Konecny's (Among others) regressions this season are part of the problem?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Making the roster worse isn't the change people want. Nor is it the answer. It's all we've gotten though.

Well, considering how the team, & these players in particular, have played, I fail to see how trading one or multiple of TK, Sanheim, and Myers de facto would make the team worse, especially when you don’t know whom you’re getting in return. It’s a defeatist attitude. For as much as you badgered me about an anti-Ghost agenda, your anti-coach/management agenda is far more pervasive.

 

[Starat327]

You don't think Myers, Sanheim, and Konecny's (Among others) regressions this season are part of the problem?

Are they part of the problem of this year's results? Yes.

Do I think their regression, when coupled with the entire team regressing because of a shitty system and coach, is valid reason to trade high potential young players? Absolutely not.

 

[Redpath]

Are they part of the problem of this year's results? Yes.

Do I think their regression, when coupled with the entire team regressing because of a shitty system and coach, is valid reason to trade high potential young players? Absolutely not.

Its tough to say the entire team is regressing when Couturier and Giroux are still great, Voracek is the same (for better or worse), JVR is having a career year, and Farabee has broken out. Especially when the same players were fine under the same coach last season.

 

[Remarkablr]

By what standard?
Since the COVID break (last 22 games):

Provorov CF 52.18%, CFrel -0.63, xGF 52.12%, xGFrel +3.24, HDCA/60: 8.41
Sanheim CF 51.67%, CFrel -1.49, xGF 49.18%, xGFrel -1.39, HDCA/60: 11.03
Ghost CF 50.27%, CFrel -1.98, xGF 49.86%, xGFrel -1.38, HDCA/60: 10.21

Provorov is back playing like prime time android, especially since he's been paired with Braun.

Instead of quoting meaningless stats. Watch the game.

Right. Braun is the best D this year. Provorov is playing great. Hagg is a good defenseman.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, considering how the team, & these players in particular, have played, I fail to see how trading one or multiple of TK, Sanheim, and Myers de facto would make the team worse, especially when you don’t know whom you’re getting in return. It’s a defeatist attitude. For as much as you badgered me about an anti-Ghost agenda, your anti-coach/management agenda is far more pervasive.

No, I'm referring specifically to repeatedly removing Ghost from the roster to make it worse.

You know, the move you referenced.


I'm happy to embrace management when they display competence. I did it last year. Why should I accept incompetence?

 

[Tripod]

Well, considering how the team, & these players in particular, have played, I fail to see how trading one or multiple of TK, Sanheim, and Myers de facto would make the team worse, especially when you don’t know whom you’re getting in return. It’s a defeatist attitude. For as much as you badgered me about an anti-Ghost agenda, your anti-coach/management agenda is far more pervasive.

Maybe because just trading players...for other ones...won't fix the system/coaching issue.

Hell...you might end up with Thompson playing against top lines instead of your Selke C. See how that "change" made us worse due to the coach?

 

[flyerslducks]

A 9th overall >>> 24th pick, noooooooo

Ehlers is miles better , but how are they a comparison ?

idk i feel like many of us overrate our player, me included. Just curious

woke up today thinking this was all just a nightmare....

 

[deadhead]

"People want change but aren't willing to move the players that aren't the problem, SMH my head."

Well, what players are the problem?

Guys like Gus and Hagg don't get enough PT to blame, and Hagg's been fine since the COVID break.
Braun has been one of our best defensemen, overused, but that's due to other players coming up short.
Raffl? Bunnaman?

So what players have been repeatedly burned on defense, or struggling to produce on offense in the top 9/top 4 - the key players on any team?

Last 22 games ES:
pp/60: Lindblom 1.93, Laughton 1.86, Hayes 1.75, NAK 1.06, Raffl 0.93, Provorov 1.02, Sanheim 0.61, Gus 0.63, Ghost 0.59
G+PA/60: Laughton 1.64, Lindblom 1.61, Hayes 1.55, Voracek 1.39, JVR, 1.14, TK 1.09, NAK 0.80, Raffl 0.61, Provorov 0.73, Ghost 0.59, Gus 0.31, Sanheim 0.29

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, what players are the problem?

Guys like Gus and Hagg don't get enough PT to blame, and Hagg's been fine since the COVID break.
Braun has been one of our best defensemen, overused, but that's due to other players coming up short.
Raffl? Bunnaman?

So what players have been repeatedly burned on defense, or struggling to produce on offense in the top 9/top 4 - the key players on any team?

Last 22 games ES:
pp/60: Lindblom 1.93, Laughton 1.86, Hayes 1.75, NAK 1.06, Raffl 0.93, Provorov 1.02, Sanheim 0.61, Gus 0.63, Ghost 0.59
G+PA/60: Laughton 1.64, Lindblom 1.61, Hayes 1.55, Voracek 1.39, JVR, 1.14, TK 1.09, NAK 0.80, Raffl 0.61, Provorov 0.73, Ghost 0.59, Gus 0.31, Sanheim 0.29

Again, Hagg hasn't been fine. He's been the same garbage but with a sky high PDO. Remember how that always ever plays out with him? He comes back to earth and costs the team games when he finally starts bleeding all the goals that should've been going in on his watch the whole time.

Dude at his best has still been outplayed by Morin and Friedman. It's likely he's gonna get outplayed by York. If Zamula manages to appear, he likely outplays Hagg.

I don't understand your attachment to Hagg. He's not an NHL player, and it's really likely that once we finally get rid of him he is never an NHL regular again. He should be somewhere around #9 on our depth list. That's been the case for a long time now.


Is this some reflexive defense of Hakstol? You have to fluff up Hagg into something he isn't to justify Hak's disastrous devotion to him even after the guy is fired?

 

[Starat327]

Its tough to say the entire team is regressing when Couturier and Giroux are still great, Voracek is the same (for better or worse), JVR is having a career year, and Farabee has broken out. Especially when the same players were fine under the same coach last season.

So the really good players who have been good for along period of time arent being affected by poor coaching decisions, but the young players who are relying on their coach to provide them guidance are struggling?

Color me shocked.

 

[Striiker]

I'm convinced that people don't know what the word "regressing" means.

Temporarily playing poorly or having your positive attributes suppressed isn't "regressing".

 

[Redpath]

So the really good players who have been good for along period of time arent being affected by poor coaching decisions, but the young players who are relying on their coach to provide them guidance are struggling?

Color me shocked.

Those young players weren't relying on the same coach's guidance last year when they were both younger and more successful? Is there any reality where the players can be individually accountable outside of the coach?

 

[Starat327]

Well, what players are the problem?

Guys like Gus and Hagg don't get enough PT to blame, and Hagg's been fine since the COVID break.
Braun has been one of our best defensemen, overused, but that's due to other players coming up short.
Raffl? Bunnaman?

So what players have been repeatedly burned on defense, or struggling to produce on offense in the top 9/top 4 - the key players on any team?

Last 22 games ES:
pp/60: Lindblom 1.93, Laughton 1.86, Hayes 1.75, NAK 1.06, Raffl 0.93, Provorov 1.02, Sanheim 0.61, Gus 0.63, Ghost 0.59
G+PA/60: Laughton 1.64, Lindblom 1.61, Hayes 1.55, Voracek 1.39, JVR, 1.14, TK 1.09, NAK 0.80, Raffl 0.61, Provorov 0.73, Ghost 0.59, Gus 0.31, Sanheim 0.29

Hagg hasnt been fine.

Also, im not really in favor of trading anyone. The team has the talent on this roster to be competitive and contend. We saw it last year. They just need to be put in a better position to succeed.

The players arent blameless, but you cant have terrible special teams (like we do) and a "i dont have the answers" coach. If the coach (self admittedly, mind you) doesnt have the answers, it doesnt matter who is on the team. You have to start there.

 

[Starat327]

Those young players weren't relying on the same coach's guidance last year when they were both younger and more successful? Is there any reality where the players can be individually accountable outside of the coach?

Show me where i said the players arent blameless? Ill wait. In fact, see the post above, where i explicitly state they arent blameless.

Do you really think that this years failure is purely on Sanheim and Myers/some of the young players regressing? You cant really think that, can you?

 

[Redpath]

Show me where i said the players arent blameless? Ill wait. In fact, see the post above, where i explicitly state they arent blameless.

Do you really think that this years failure is purely on Sanheim and Myers/some of the young players regressing? You cant really think that, can you?

You're right, you did say that.

I've been critical of AV as well. I don't like his lineup decisions. I think he needs to be fired for a shakeup. But I also think its wrong to over focus on him. To me the main issue of this team is individual regression more so than AV, although both areas are major issues.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The guy thinks the team needs Prosser and Stewart. And the continued employment of this coaching staff, all who have seen complete collapses in their various realms.

This is not a guy in touch with its needs.

You’re nitpicking over nothingburgers.