33rd Overall Jonatan Berggren

[RRhoads]

Ras is special, he's a 210# 6'6" centerman that can skate and chip in offensively. Big players take longer to develop.

Anyone tall can relate. You go through physical changes quickly and you don't really get used to your body until you slow down your growth. This is one of the reasons I think Soderblom is one of our most exciting prospects. He's stopped growing and he's taken a quantum leap.

 

[brakeyawself]

I would say a Nyquist level player at 33 overall is a homerun. What more would you hope for? Nyquist would have been a big part of this team had we the other players we needed to go forward at the time.

Yeah we need another superstar forward (C preferably), but we aren't likely going to get that outside the top 10. If and when we get that player, we will need a couple nyquists in the cupboard or we aren't going to be going forward.

A bit late to this one lol. I agree with most. All though, I might say a Nyquist at 33 overall is a nice double...maybe not quite a homerun. And with the low NHL prospect success rate, a double is still very good.

As far as getting superstar level high ceiling prospects, not necessarily mature players, outside the top 10, some other teams seem capable and adept at doing so. For instance, Dallas... just in the last couple of years, Bourque, Wyatt Johnston were late 1sts and in the 2nd, Stankoven, before that Hintz and Robertson, all 3 2nd rounders.

The Jets seem to be putting together a nice pool. Heinola still a work in progress, but he was like pick 20. Then they get Lambert at 30 this year. And while there is no guarantee he works out, he seems to at least have that lottery level ceiling and talent that again, for some reason, some teams seem better at getting or just luckier? They got Lucius at 18, and while Im not suggesting hes close to becoming a superstar, he has high level upside. And sure they have some reaches too, like McGroarty, but they aren't so bad when you still get a guy like Lambert at 30. And not suggesting any of these players will work out even, but the high ceiling, the potential is there. And then they got Perfetti just at pick 10, so that's reasonable.

Kings have been able to do some nice work similarly with later picks. Pinelli they got in 2021 and I thought he was a steal where they got him. Was praying my Rangers traded up for another 2nd rounder that year to grab either Pinelli, Stankoven or Raty...... and all 3 seem to be well on their way to at least a chance at being above average to great..... not elite but still, quality top 6 forwards in the NHL with a chance at becoming stars. Kaliyev was a 2nd rounder, Fagemo, Madden was a 3rd rounder who could be a nice player I guess, but they added Kupari, JAD was a 2nd rounder, Spence a 4th rounder...

Now, I completely trust Yzerman and his plan. When the Rangers aren't involved, Detroit has always been a team I follow closely. And the early picks Yzer has been making have been terrific. Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond, there is no doubting. But then for instance this year, taking Kasper ahead of Nazar. Don't get me wrong, i think Kasper has terrific upside and wonderful two way upside, but IMO at least, Nazar was the best center left on the board. Detroit wasnt the only one who passed him up, Arizona picked Geekie ahead of him too. And I do very much think both teams will regret it. They went with safer choice in Kasper, a "need" sure, but not the guy with the highest offensive ceiling and highest potential. And it probably didn't help that in 2021 they picked Cossa so early, over Wallstedt who I still think is the better prospect. I think they could have traded down, still got Wallstedt probably. Anyway, a goalie in the 1st is always a gamble that I guess sometimes you need to just take. And I think these are the type of picks that, while they still might work out and provide a very good player, taking a little more risk on a prospect with what I think is a higher ceiling is usually worth the gamble in the 1st round. And for this I will point to the Rangers.

Have not been very happy with our drafting the past 5 years. I am one of the few that did not really want Kakko, and who wanted Byfield ahead of Laf. Now, Byfield hasnt worked out either, but we've desperately needed a young center for a while and Chytil clearly isn't it. Yet we pick Othmann, who granted, I love, ahead of Wyatt Johnston, Svechkov, Pinelli, Raty, Stankoven....... and not the only team to have done so.... but it's no less infuriating considering Center is a premium position, they are harder to get outside of the top 10 either way, and we were stacked at LW as it is. And as much as I like Othmann, I would have given him up for Johnston, Svechkov, Raty or Stankoven in a heartbeat, even on draft night.

And yea I understand this is mostly in hindsight also. But it seems to me, some teams are just much more adept at picking the right player, or at least, getting "lucky" for whatever reason, with later picks. I don't know if that is Detroits forte. I don't think it's the Rangers forte either.

Don't want to make it sound like Kasper won't be terrific and he could easily still be a star. But in terms of long term potential, I just thought Nazar was, is, on another level. And Savoie and Ostlund were still on the board, both who I think have higher ceilings offensively than Kasper as well. And the Hawks of all teams got a real steal with Nazar at 13. And I think he will prove giving up Dach was the right move in that case. Not sure what the Isles were thinking getting Romanov instead of making that pick where they probably could have traded down and got as good a D as Romanov will be, along with maybe extra assets instead. And there were definitely still top wingers, which the Isles badly need. But then, this year they got Odelius in the 2nd also, which I thought was a steal at that position, as Lambeau was for Anaheim. Anaheim another team I think that's decent at finding talent outside the top 10 actually.

Anyway, I guess my point is, other teams prove time and time again that it is possible to get very high level talent outside of the top 10, 2nd half of the 1st or even the 2nd round on occasion. But usually you have to swing for the fences instead of going with the "safer" choice. And considering that rounds 2-7 are generally full of gritty, 2 way, depth players, 3rd liners and the occasional 2nd or 1st liner....... I honestly don't understand why any team passes on talent and potential so early in the draft for "safer" options or just raw size even, like it seems Yotes did with Geekie.

Sorry for the novel. Anyway, this is one area where I think the Wings could use some improvement. And I'm sure Kasper will work out, but he could just as easily end up a decent 2nd liner or a middle 6 player. And if they were picking at like 15 or 16, I would have been much happier with that pick than at #8 overall. Heck, even Savoie, who I was not the biggest fan of, was probably the better pick at that point. Anway, hope Kasper surprises me and ends up better than I think he will. But they definitely picked him a decent amount earlier than most had expected him to go. And this Soderblom kid does look like a steal for a 6th rounder. And in the past they occasionally hit on guys like Hronek and Bertuzzi. But even when drafting in the top 10, there's no guarantee..... like Rasmussen.... all though I see some still holding out some hope..... while I do think Ras could still be a very useful player, not expecting him to become a regular top 6 or anything. Even Zadina and a guy who was picked a bit later, Veleno at this point... not sure where they will end up but think regular top 6 is still a bit optimistic for both. And given that they already have Larkin, a solid 2 way guy, I think they could still have used the highest potential offensive centers they can get.

 

[haulinbass]

A bit late to this one lol. I agree with most. All though, I might say a Nyquist at 33 overall is a nice double...maybe not quite a homerun. And with the low NHL prospect success rate, a double is still very good.

As far as getting superstar level players outside the top 10, some other teams seem capable and adept at doing so. For instance, Dallas... just in the last couple of years, Bourque, Wyatt Johnston were late 1sts and in the 2nd, Stankoven, before that Hintz and Robertson, all 3 2nd rounders.

The Jets seem to be putting together a nice pool. Heinola still a work in progress, but he was like pick 20. Then they get Lambert at 30 this year. And while there is no guarantee he works out, he seems to at least have that lottery level ceiling and talent that again, for some reason, some teams seem better at getting or just luckier? They got Lucius at 18, and while Im not suggesting hes close to becoming a superstar, he has high level upside. And sure they have some reaches too, like McGroarty, but they aren't so bad when you still get a guy like Lambert at 30. And not suggesting any of these players will work out even, but the high ceiling, the potential is there. And then they got Perfetti just at pick 10, so that's reasonable.

Kings have been able to do some nice work similarly with later picks. Pinelli they got in 2021 and I thought he was a steal where they got him. Was praying my Rangers traded up for another 2nd rounder that year to grab either Pinelli, Stankoven or Raty...... and all 3 seem to be well on their way to at least a chance at being above average to great..... not elite but still, quality top 6 forwards in the NHL with a chance at becoming stars. Kaliyev was a 2nd rounder, Fagemo, Madden was a 3rd rounder who could be a nice player I guess, but they added Kupari, JAD was a 2nd rounder, Spence a 4th rounder...

Now, I completely trust Yzerman and his plan. When the Rangers aren't involved, Detroit has always been a team I follow closely. And the early picks Yzer has been making have been terrific. Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond, there is no doubting. But then for instance this year, taking Kasper ahead of Nazar. Don't get me wrong, i think Kasper has terrific upside and wonderful two way upside, but IMO at least, Nazar was the best center left on the board. Detroit wasnt the only one who passed him up, Arizona picked Geekie ahead of him too. And I do very much think both teams will regret it. They went with safer choice in Kasper, a "need" sure, but not the guy with the highest offensive ceiling and highest potential. And it probably didn't help that in 2021 they picked Cossa so early, over Wallstedt who I still think is the better prospect. I think they could have traded down, still got Wallstedt probably. Anyway, a goalie in the 1st is always a gamble that I guess sometimes you need to just take. And I think these are the type of picks that, while they still might work out and provide a very good player, taking a little more risk on a prospect with what I think is a higher ceiling is usually worth the gamble in the 1st round. And for this I will point to the Rangers.

Have not been very happy with our drafting the past 5 years. I am one of the few that did not really want Kakko, and who wanted Byfield ahead of Laf. Now, Byfield hasnt worked out either, but we've desperately needed a young center for a while and Chytil clearly isn't it. Yet we pick Othmann, who granted, I love, ahead of Wyatt Johnston, Svechkov, Pinelli, Raty, Stankoven....... and not the only team to have done so.... but it's no less infuriating considering Center is a premium position, they are harder to get outside of the top 10 either way, and we were stacked at LW as it is. And as much as I like Othmann, I would have given him up for Johnston, Svechkov, Raty or Stankoven in a heartbeat, even on draft night.

And yea I understand this is mostly in hindsight also. But it seems to me, some teams are just much more adept at picking the right player, or at least, getting "lucky" for whatever reason, with later picks. I don't know if that is Detroits forte. I don't think it's the Rangers forte either.

Don't want to make it sound like Kasper won't be terrific and he could easily still be a star. But in terms of long term potential, I just thought Nazar was, is, on another level. And Savoie and Ostlund were still on the board, both who I think have higher ceilings offensively than Kasper as well. And the Hawks of all teams got a real steal with Nazar at 13. And I think he will prove giving up Dach was the right move in that case. Not sure what the Isles were thinking getting Romanov instead of making that pick where they probably could have traded down and got as good a D as Romanov will be, along with maybe extra assets instead. And there were definitely still top wingers, which the Isles badly need. But then, this year they got Odelius in the 2nd also, which I thought was a steal at that position, as Lambeau was for Anaheim. Anaheim another team I think that's decent at finding talent outside the top 10 actually.

Anyway, I guess my point is, other teams prove time and time again that it is possible to get very high level talent outside of the top 10, 2nd half of the 1st or even the 2nd round on occasion. But usually you have to swing for the fences instead of going with the "safer" choice. And considering that rounds 2-7 are generally full of gritty, 2 way, depth players, 3rd liners and the occasional 2nd or 1st liner....... I honestly don't understand why any team passes on talent and potential so early in the draft for "safer" options or just raw size even, like it seems Yotes did with Geekie.

Sorry for the novel. Anyway, this is one area where I think the Wings could use some improvement. And I'm sure Kasper will work out, but he could just as easily end up a decent 2nd liner or a middle 6 player. And if they were picking at like 15 or 16, I would have been much happier with that pick than at #8 overall. Heck, even Savoie, who I was not the biggest fan of, was probably the better pick at that point. Anway, hope Kasper surprises me and ends up better than I think he will. But they definitely picked him a decent amount earlier than most had expected him to go. And this Soderblom kid does look like a steal for a 6th rounder. And in the past they occasionally hit on guys like Hronek and Bertuzzi. But even when drafting in the top 10, there's no guarantee..... like Rasmussen.... all though I see some still holding out some hope..... while I do think Ras could still be a very useful player, not expecting him to become a regular top 6 or anything. Even Zadina and a guy who was picked a bit later, Veleno at this point... not sure where they will end up but think regular top 6 is still a bit optimistic for both. And given that they already have Larkin, a solid 2 way guy, I think they could still have used the highest potential offensive centers they can get.

It certainly does happen, but it's also not often a team strings together enough picks like that. I think you obviously need to be able to steal a couple guys in combination of your high picks turning out. Obviously I do have confidents in Yzerman that he will find enough guys to put us where we need to be. How couldn't we, look what he has done so far with Detroit let alone Tampa. But we can't just expect we are going to land on Kucherovs and Points either. Just because a couple teams do it from time to time doesn't make its likely. You can find a much longer list of teams who didn't have that much success.

I disagree on Nazar though. I just don't see him playing center in the NHL. Savoie could be unlikely see C as well. I think Yzerman took the guy who he thought was likely to be a top six center in the NHL. I think he favored getting a 2C above a possibly higher potentiol winger as well as a guy more likely to succeed in the NHL. Kasper is the guy I thought Yzerman would take. I was also high on Detroit looking to Ostlund until his official combine measurements shown he didn't gain any height. That kid is a heck of a player though I'm not sure he will play center due to his size, but I will be very interested in watching his development. He plays the center position much better than Nazar and Savoie at this point. Hopefully his frame will support a playing weight of around 188lbs, if he can do that without hurting his game he has a decent shot.

As far as Byfield goes as you mentioned that, I had Stutzle above him. When you are his size in junior hockey, I wanted to see him play with the puck more. I avoid all centers that don't demand the puck on their stick, especially if that prospect plays in a junior league. Stutzle, Raymond, Lundell and Holtz were the only guys on my list for forwards depending on where I had a pick within the top 10.

 

[newfy]

A bit late to this one lol. I agree with most. All though, I might say a Nyquist at 33 overall is a nice double...maybe not quite a homerun. And with the low NHL prospect success rate, a double is still very good.

As far as getting superstar level players outside the top 10, some other teams seem capable and adept at doing so. For instance, Dallas... just in the last couple of years, Bourque, Wyatt Johnston were late 1sts and in the 2nd, Stankoven, before that Hintz and Robertson, all 3 2nd rounders.

The Jets seem to be putting together a nice pool. Heinola still a work in progress, but he was like pick 20. Then they get Lambert at 30 this year. And while there is no guarantee he works out, he seems to at least have that lottery level ceiling and talent that again, for some reason, some teams seem better at getting or just luckier? They got Lucius at 18, and while Im not suggesting hes close to becoming a superstar, he has high level upside. And sure they have some reaches too, like McGroarty, but they aren't so bad when you still get a guy like Lambert at 30. And not suggesting any of these players will work out even, but the high ceiling, the potential is there. And then they got Perfetti just at pick 10, so that's reasonable.

Kings have been able to do some nice work similarly with later picks. Pinelli they got in 2021 and I thought he was a steal where they got him. Was praying my Rangers traded up for another 2nd rounder that year to grab either Pinelli, Stankoven or Raty...... and all 3 seem to be well on their way to at least a chance at being above average to great..... not elite but still, quality top 6 forwards in the NHL with a chance at becoming stars. Kaliyev was a 2nd rounder, Fagemo, Madden was a 3rd rounder who could be a nice player I guess, but they added Kupari, JAD was a 2nd rounder, Spence a 4th rounder...

Now, I completely trust Yzerman and his plan. When the Rangers aren't involved, Detroit has always been a team I follow closely. And the early picks Yzer has been making have been terrific. Seider, Edvinsson, Raymond, there is no doubting. But then for instance this year, taking Kasper ahead of Nazar. Don't get me wrong, i think Kasper has terrific upside and wonderful two way upside, but IMO at least, Nazar was the best center left on the board. Detroit wasnt the only one who passed him up, Arizona picked Geekie ahead of him too. And I do very much think both teams will regret it. They went with safer choice in Kasper, a "need" sure, but not the guy with the highest offensive ceiling and highest potential. And it probably didn't help that in 2021 they picked Cossa so early, over Wallstedt who I still think is the better prospect. I think they could have traded down, still got Wallstedt probably. Anyway, a goalie in the 1st is always a gamble that I guess sometimes you need to just take. And I think these are the type of picks that, while they still might work out and provide a very good player, taking a little more risk on a prospect with what I think is a higher ceiling is usually worth the gamble in the 1st round. And for this I will point to the Rangers.

Have not been very happy with our drafting the past 5 years. I am one of the few that did not really want Kakko, and who wanted Byfield ahead of Laf. Now, Byfield hasnt worked out either, but we've desperately needed a young center for a while and Chytil clearly isn't it. Yet we pick Othmann, who granted, I love, ahead of Wyatt Johnston, Svechkov, Pinelli, Raty, Stankoven....... and not the only team to have done so.... but it's no less infuriating considering Center is a premium position, they are harder to get outside of the top 10 either way, and we were stacked at LW as it is. And as much as I like Othmann, I would have given him up for Johnston, Svechkov, Raty or Stankoven in a heartbeat, even on draft night.

And yea I understand this is mostly in hindsight also. But it seems to me, some teams are just much more adept at picking the right player, or at least, getting "lucky" for whatever reason, with later picks. I don't know if that is Detroits forte. I don't think it's the Rangers forte either.

Don't want to make it sound like Kasper won't be terrific and he could easily still be a star. But in terms of long term potential, I just thought Nazar was, is, on another level. And Savoie and Ostlund were still on the board, both who I think have higher ceilings offensively than Kasper as well. And the Hawks of all teams got a real steal with Nazar at 13. And I think he will prove giving up Dach was the right move in that case. Not sure what the Isles were thinking getting Romanov instead of making that pick where they probably could have traded down and got as good a D as Romanov will be, along with maybe extra assets instead. And there were definitely still top wingers, which the Isles badly need. But then, this year they got Odelius in the 2nd also, which I thought was a steal at that position, as Lambeau was for Anaheim. Anaheim another team I think that's decent at finding talent outside the top 10 actually.

Anyway, I guess my point is, other teams prove time and time again that it is possible to get very high level talent outside of the top 10, 2nd half of the 1st or even the 2nd round on occasion. But usually you have to swing for the fences instead of going with the "safer" choice. And considering that rounds 2-7 are generally full of gritty, 2 way, depth players, 3rd liners and the occasional 2nd or 1st liner....... I honestly don't understand why any team passes on talent and potential so early in the draft for "safer" options or just raw size even, like it seems Yotes did with Geekie.

Sorry for the novel. Anyway, this is one area where I think the Wings could use some improvement. And I'm sure Kasper will work out, but he could just as easily end up a decent 2nd liner or a middle 6 player. And if they were picking at like 15 or 16, I would have been much happier with that pick than at #8 overall. Heck, even Savoie, who I was not the biggest fan of, was probably the better pick at that point. Anway, hope Kasper surprises me and ends up better than I think he will. But they definitely picked him a decent amount earlier than most had expected him to go. And this Soderblom kid does look like a steal for a 6th rounder. And in the past they occasionally hit on guys like Hronek and Bertuzzi. But even when drafting in the top 10, there's no guarantee..... like Rasmussen.... all though I see some still holding out some hope..... while I do think Ras could still be a very useful player, not expecting him to become a regular top 6 or anything. Even Zadina and a guy who was picked a bit later, Veleno at this point... not sure where they will end up but think regular top 6 is still a bit optimistic for both. And given that they already have Larkin, a solid 2 way guy, I think they could still have used the highest potential offensive centers they can get.

Not going to reply to anything but I'll just say youre talking about other teams drafting stars but the oldest player you've mentioned is like 21 years old and none are actually stars.

I wouldnt be looking down on guys like Kasper and Geekie in favour of guys like Stankoven or Nazar at this point at all and definitely wouldnt be using it to try to prove a point. All these small junior scorers always get hyped and a lot of them flame out.

Even a guy like Wyatt Johnston, let him play a bit in the NHL before declaring him anything. He was playing in a league that missed a bunch of time with covid ad lots of guys have scored like him in junior to go on and do nothing. If your post was made 5 or 6 years ago guys like Sam Steel and Morgan Frost would be your next superstars while Matthew Tkachuk was a scared, no upside pick.

At the end of the day, Yzerman has earned the benefit of the doubt drafting. Basically everything you said about low upside, gritty players was said about Seider after the wings took him too. I would just think long and hard before criticising any draft picks made by an Yzerman ran team, if you dont agree with his drafting your philosophy about drafting is probably wrong

 

[brakeyawself]

It certainly does happen, but it's also not often a team strings together enough picks like that. I think you obviously need to be able to steal a couple guys in combination of your high picks turning out. Obviously I do have confidents in Yzerman that he will find enough guys to put us where we need to be. How couldn't we, look what he has done so far with Detroit let alone Tampa. But we can't just expect we are going to land on Kucherovs and Points either. Just because a couple teams do it from time to time doesn't make its likely. You can find a much longer list of teams who didn't have that much success.

I disagree on Nazar though. I just don't see him playing center in the NHL. Savoie could be unlikely see C as well. I think Yzerman took the guy who he thought was likely to be a top six center in the NHL. I think he favored getting a 2C above a possibly higher potentiol winger as well as a guy more likely to succeed in the NHL. Kasper is the guy I thought Yzerman would take. I was also high on Detroit looking to Ostlund until his official combine measurements shown he didn't gain any height. That kid is a heck of a player though I'm not sure he will play center due to his size, but I will be very interested in watching his development. He plays the center position much better than Nazar and Savoie at this point. Hopefully his frame will support a playing weight of around 188lbs, if he can do that without hurting his game he has a decent shot.

As far as Byfield goes as you mentioned that, I had Stutzle above him. When you are his size in junior hockey, I wanted to see him play with the puck more. I avoid all centers that don't demand the puck on their stick, especially if that prospect plays in a junior league. Stutzle, Raymond, Lundell and Holtz were the only guys on my list for forwards depending on where I had a pick within the top 10.

Could be right about Nazar not ending up a center, but I think there is a fair chance he still does. Savoie even more so I can see ending up on the wing. Really either might, but that's basically the trade off, higher upside, bigger risk might not end up at the position you want. But I would say, they have equal chance ending up centers as wingers. Odds are at least one will move to the wing though for sure. And that is really mostly about their size. But I think Nazar's talent is just so high level honestly, i think he can overcome it and be a smaller center. He still has some things to work on. At least, I think the Hawks will give him every opportunity to stay at center. While Savoie has way too much competition at that position now with Ostlund and Kulich, who I think will both be better center. And thats not even mentioning Thompson, Krebs, Mitt, I doubt Savoie can hold them all off. Meanwhile Nazar should have a pretty clear opportunity. Guess will see.

Yea, I get Yzerman's logic, and certainly he's done a terrific job thus far. I guess I just prefer swinging for the fences with top 10-15 picks. But Kasper can certainly still end up a very good top 6 center, no doubt.

Stutzle I liked better than Laf, I just didnt think hed end up a center at that point. Laf for me, had everything, except he is fairly slow and wasnt the greatest skater, same with Kakko. Any time they say "he's gotta slow the game down to his speed" surrounding a prospect, its a huge worry for me. Just can't help but get strong Dylan Strome vibes. Certainly some players are able to break out of those shackles, but I tend to find it more rare than not. Especially when the team and player in question don't spend all their free time ensuring said players trains with a top notch skating coach..... anyway, now I'm just reflecting on how the Rangers have underdeveloped their expensive pieces. Still kind of shocked how successful we were last season.

 

[haulinbass]

Could be right about Nazar not ending up a center, but I think there is a fair chance he still does. Savoie even more so I can see ending up on the wing. Really either might, but that's basically the trade off, higher upside, bigger risk might not end up at the position you want. But I would say, they have equal chance ending up centers as wingers. Odds are at least one will move to the wing though for sure. And that is really mostly about their size. But I think Nazar's talent is just so high level honestly, i think he can overcome it and be a smaller center. He still has some things to work on. At least, I think the Hawks will give him every opportunity to stay at center. While Savoie has way too much competition at that position now with Ostlund and Kulich, who I think will both be better center. And thats not even mentioning Thompson, Krebs, Mitt, I doubt Savoie can hold them all off. Meanwhile Nazar should have a pretty clear opportunity. Guess will see.

Yea, I get Yzerman's logic, and certainly he's done a terrific job thus far. I guess I just prefer swinging for the fences with top 10-15 picks. But Kasper can certainly still end up a very good top 6 center, no doubt.

Stutzle I liked better than Laf, I just didnt think hed end up a center at that point. Laf for me, had everything, except he is fairly slow and wasnt the greatest skater, same with Kakko. Any time they say "he's gotta slow the game down to his speed" surrounding a prospect, its a huge worry for me. Just can't help but get strong Dylan Strome vibes. Certainly some players are able to break out of those shackles, but I tend to find it more rare than not. Especially when the team and player in question don't spend all their free time ensuring said players trains with a top notch skating coach..... anyway, now I'm just reflecting on how the Rangers have underdeveloped their expensive pieces. Still kind of shocked how successful we were last season.

Yeah I wouldn't ever claim they have no chance of playing center. Both of those players have enough talent that if they reach their maximum potentiol center is a real possibility for them. But they would most certainly have to pan out to the higher end of their potentiol really maximizing those abilities at the NHL level. Which is the case for any player really. Truth is of all the players you mentioned, its a real possiblity half of those guys won't even make it as far as sustaining being a top 6 forward in the NHL let alone make it to center. It's just the harsh reality of things. Some draft years your lucky if half the top 10 become high caliber NHL players. Center becomes even more bleak. What if per draft the NHL turned put 5 top six centers. In 10 years that's 50 top six centers. That's almost 2 lines for the entire league every 10 years. So just playing with numbers alone, on average the reality is of an entire 7 rounds your lucky to turn 5 top six centers per year. Now each draft seems to always produce a gem outside of the top picks. Doesn't leave a lot likelyness that all these great looking top 15 center prospects end up as centers does it? Especially from a not so good looking draft like last year. Next year almost certainly produces more centers than last year's draft. It's no joke to play center at the NHL level, talent alone isn't going to get you there. It's guys like Kasper who see the game well and always have the puck on their stick who have the highest odds of playing center. Guys who end up with the puck on their stick in the tough areas. Guys who almost always make the right decisions when they have the puck on their stick. Guys like Savoie as beautiful of plays they can make and produce a great highlight clip, could also produce a mile long highlight clip of bad plays resulting in loss of possesion. Doesn't mean a guy like Savoie can't turn into an elite NHL center, but it's not as easy to refine your game and still maintain that offensive flare as people think. They play with a higher risk and once they go pro that risk gets amplified.

I can understand you thinking Kasper might have lower potentiol. I urge you to take a closer look, especially his highlights from this season. If you watch his full games from last year you can obviously see how good of a hockey player he is in general. This year we are starting to see the offensive ability he really has. His highlight real after this season is going to look 10x more interesting than that of last year. Can't forget he was a 17 year old playing in a men's league. While Savoie was playing juniors and Nazar was playing a combo of junior and NCAA competition. Kasper would have looked a lot flashier had he played in Savoies shoes last year. There is a reason why those guys got picked where they did. They are very far from home run NHL centers, if they were they would have been taken in the top 3.

 

[brakeyawself]

Not going to reply to anything but I'll just say youre talking about other teams drafting stars but the oldest player you've mentioned is like 21 years old and none are actually stars.

I wouldnt be looking down on guys like Kasper and Geekie in favour of guys like Stankoven or Nazar at this point at all and definitely wouldnt be using it to try to prove a point. All these small junior scorers always get hyped and a lot of them flame out.

Even a guy like Wyatt Johnston, let him play a bit in the NHL before declaring him anything. He was playing in a league that missed a bunch of time with covid ad lots of guys have scored like him in junior to go on and do nothing. If your post was made 5 or 6 years ago guys like Sam Steel and Morgan Frost would be your next superstars while Matthew Tkachuk was a scared, no upside pick.

At the end of the day, Yzerman has earned the benefit of the doubt drafting. Basically everything you said about low upside, gritty players was said about Seider after the wings took him too. I would just think long and hard before criticising any draft picks made by an Yzerman ran team, if you dont agree with his drafting your philosophy about drafting is probably wrong

ROFL you made a lot of assumptions that I never said.... And no, i hated both Sam Steel and Morgan Frost and Mat Tkachuk was a pretty clear great pick.

I meant in terms of prospects, not finished players. When you have 3 or 4 kids with high ceilings, with that kind of potential, the chances of at least one reaching those heights is all you really need. So when you use high draft picks on "safer" players, you often pass up on getting a player with the ability to reach a much higher potential, even if there is a higher chance of busting. That's all.

Point was, as long as one of Johnston, Bourque or Stankoven reach their ceiling, they'll have another stud player on their team, and still a good chance one of the other two, or both, still turn into solid 2nd or 3rd line players.

Now some think Kasper has a much higher ceiling than I do, that's fine. I hope he reaches whatever ceiling he does have. But I also don't see this similar to the Seider situation in that Seider was more an unfinished product with huge upside...... Kasper is more of a polished player with more skepticism surrounding that upside. Again, might turn out to be a very nice player. But I'd usually want more out of a top 10 pick. Now if Kasper does surprise and surpass what many think is his ceiling, then great. I just don't love the odds on this one.

 

[Pavels Dog]

But I also don't see this similar to the Seider situation in that Seider was more an unfinished product with huge upside...... Kasper is more of a polished player with more skepticism surrounding that upside.

No, Seider definitely wasn't looked at like someone with huge upside, at least it wasn't a mainstream opinion. He was refined for his age, close to NHL ready, but major questions surrounding what the upside was. VERY similar to how Kasper is described (which doesn't mean Kasper will turn out as good).

 

[haulinbass]

ROFL you made a lot of assumptions that I never said.... And no, i hated both Sam Steel and Morgan Frost and Mat Tkachuk was a pretty clear great pick.

I meant in terms of prospects, not finished players. When you have 3 or 4 kids with high ceilings, with that kind of potential, the chances of at least one reaching those heights is all you really need. So when you use high draft picks on "safer" players, you often pass up on getting a player with the ability to reach a much higher potential, even if there is a higher chance of busting. That's all.

Point was, as long as one of Johnston, Bourque or Stankoven reach their ceiling, they'll have another stud player on their team, and still a good chance one of the other two, or both, still turn into solid 2nd or 3rd line players.

Now some think Kasper has a much higher ceiling than I do, that's fine. I hope he reaches whatever ceiling he does have. But I also don't see this similar to the Seider situation in that Seider was more an unfinished product with huge upside...... Kasper is more of a polished player with more skepticism surrounding that upside. Again, might turn out to be a very nice player. But I'd usually want more out of a top 10 pick. Now if Kasper does surprise and surpass what many think is his ceiling, then great. I just don't love the odds on this one.

It is insane to me how people on here projected M. Tkachuk. He was ranked number 1 on a pole that got a very large amount of attention before the draft as the riskiest pick in the top 10. In that thread I highly argued that he is the safest pick in that top 10.

Most of the people around here have no buisiness at all projecting prospects. There are very few of us who have an extensive history and track record of high success rate that can be proven by post history. Your reputation here isn't built by actually being right, it's built by saying things that people want to here which are typically wrong opinions.

 

[newfy]

ROFL you made a lot of assumptions that I never said.... And no, i hated both Sam Steel and Morgan Frost and Mat Tkachuk was a pretty clear great pick.

I meant in terms of prospects, not finished players. When you have 3 or 4 kids with high ceilings, with that kind of potential, the chances of at least one reaching those heights is all you really need. So when you use high draft picks on "safer" players, you often pass up on getting a player with the ability to reach a much higher potential, even if there is a higher chance of busting. That's all.

Point was, as long as one of Johnston, Bourque or Stankoven reach their ceiling, they'll have another stud player on their team, and still a good chance one of the other two, or both, still turn into solid 2nd or 3rd line players.

Now some think Kasper has a much higher ceiling than I do, that's fine. I hope he reaches whatever ceiling he does have. But I also don't see this similar to the Seider situation in that Seider was more an unfinished product with huge upside...... Kasper is more of a polished player with more skepticism surrounding that upside. Again, might turn out to be a very nice player. But I'd usually want more out of a top 10 pick. Now if Kasper does surprise and surpass what many think is his ceiling, then great. I just don't love the odds on this one.

People love to confuse flashy, small offensive player with upside. What Yzerman does is find effective hockey players and doesnt care about if theyre flashy enough for a message board to think they have high upside.

Larkin, Bertuzzi and Seider are Detroits best three players and both were low upside picks that had the small flashy upside people pissed on here. Theyre effective hockey players, doesnt matter what their perceived upside is.

What makes Nazars upside so much higher than Kaspers? Theres more than one way to skin a cat

 

[DoMakc]

It is funny to read, how everybody liked Seider's pick and how much upside everybody saw in him. Maybe next time Craig Button and Winged Wheel Podcast can say this. So much revesionist history here.

 

[lilidk]

People love to confuse flashy, small offensive player with upside. What Yzerman does is find effective hockey players and doesnt care about if theyre flashy enough for a message board to think they have high upside.

Larkin, Bertuzzi and Seider are Detroits best three players and both were low upside picks that had the small flashy upside people pissed on here. Theyre effective hockey players, doesnt matter what their perceived upside is.

What makes Nazars upside so much higher than Kaspers? Theres more than one way to skin a cat

About upside, wonder what was upsides projection for Datsyuk, Zetterburg and Lindstrom

 

[Henkka]

It is funny to read, how everybody liked Seider's pick and how much upside everybody saw in him. Maybe next time Craig Button and Winged Wheel Podcast can say this. So much revesionist history here.

He is still #18 overall at my draft list on draft day. And probably one of highest takes.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It is funny to read, how everybody liked Seider's pick and how much upside everybody saw in him. Maybe next time Craig Button and Winged Wheel Podcast can say this. So much revesionist history here.

Funniest thing is you can go back just 1 year and there was a lot of ”he’s not gonna get more than 20-30 points” type of takes. I got flamed last offseason because I thought he had more than 50 point upside..

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Funniest thing is you can go back just 1 year and there was a lot of ”he’s not gonna get more than 20-30 points” type of takes. I got flamed last offseason because I thought he had more than 50 point upside..

Samesies. Berggren is a guy I can see getting big numbers in the right role. 50-70 points with good linemates in his prime. I’d rather have him next to Vrana or Kubalik than Zadina.

 

[Dotter]

No question Soderblom is taking the spot that might have been Berggen's.

 

[lilidk]

Samesies. Berggren is a guy I can see getting big numbers in the right role. 50-70 points with good linemates in his prime. I’d rather have him next to Vrana or Kubalik than Zadina.

I prefer Berggren with Veleno and Elmer

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I prefer Berggren with Veleno and Elmer

In the future for sure. I don’t think Elmer is as ready as some here for. I want to see him clean up his game for a bit in GR to start.

 

[Gniwder]

In the future for sure. I don’t think Elmer is as ready as some here for. I want to see him clean up his game for a bit in GR to start.

Yup, no need to rush him when he can get more special teams time in GR, This team isn't going after the Cup this season.

He can join the team when Erne gets traded. Contract year Erne will outperform expectations, and we'll get back at least a 3rd.

 

[Dotter]

Elmer is staying. I knew there was no question beat out Berggren. Lets hope Soderbomb can sustain his stamina throughout the season.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

My issue, (and I hope it isn't his) is that Berggren is a very talented player that should be on a NHL roster.

He got sent down in a numbers game. I'm praying that he gets a call-ups soon, otherwise I feel that the Wings might have messed up a stud player.

Just my opinion.

 

[Henkka]

Elmer is staying. I knew there was no question beat out Berggren. Lets hope Soderbomb can sustain his stamina throughout the season.

Söderblom had 72 game season last year at Frölunda. Scored 30 goals on those games. SHL regular season + Champ League games + SHL playoffs.

52 games, 21+12 = 33points (SHL games)
11 games, 6+3 = 9 points (Champs)
9 games, 3+3 = 6 points (SHL playoffs)
-----------------
72 games, 30 +18 = 48 points.

15:14min avg TOI in a faster skating league than AHL.

Don't think stamina is an issue, because he is not gonna get big minutes. He'll get maybe 12min at NHL role.

 

[Pavels Dog]

My issue, (and I hope it isn't his) is that Berggren is a very talented player that should be on a NHL roster.

He got sent down in a numbers game. I'm praying that he gets a call-ups soon, otherwise I feel that the Wings might have messed up a stud player.

Just my opinion.

It's the mirror image of that time Nyquist was sent down after clearly showing he was done with AHL.

 

[Henkka]

It's the mirror image of that time Nyquist was sent down after clearly showing he was done with AHL.

No really. Nyquist was already 24-year old on those explosion days. This is more of "Tatar-way."

Berggren is 22. More comparable how Wings handled Tatar. He played that age-comparable (22-year old) season at AHL and it ended being a Champion and playoff MVP.

Then it was time for NHL.

 

[Gniwder]

It's the mirror image of that time Nyquist was sent down after clearly showing he was done with AHL.

I get the feeling that Lalonde is more like Babs than Blash was. Babs would rather play Abby than Tats/Nyquist, and it appears Elmer has gained favor with Lalonde.

Blash took a liking to Cholo and he was 10 ply. Babs hated soft D.