33rd Overall Jonatan Berggren

[lomekian]

I'm ranking actualized potential and expected potential as the same, and there are some skills these guys have that translate the same at any level. There are some categories that Berggren is inarguably better than both Fabbri and Zadina. In terms of pure, raw skill Berggren is up there with a guy like Raymond. He's slightly smaller and doesn't have as good a shot or processor as we're seeing in Raymond but I think that Berggren has it in him to be a 60ish point guy and help drive possession towards the offensive zone. He has been getting hot in Grand Rapids. I think it's only a matter of time before he starts to burn the place up. I would be shocked if he's not up for at least a 5+ game stint this year to show what he's got.

Also it's totally fine for some players, particularly playmakers, to be perimeter players like Berggren is. It is NOT fine for goalscorers to be perimeter players in the NHL nowadays. And that is a major Zadina problem. Too many of his shot attempts are from low danger areas that worked in junior, but not now. And his shot has simply not improved from his rookie year.

Zadina is a guy that I had really high hopes for from his rookie season, thinking he could be a 30-30 guy but those flashes in the pan are fewer and far between. And this season he's produced, but his 2 goals came in losses. His other points were driven by his linemates, and we're not seeing him create much on his own. I know he's young but after watching Berggren in the SHL all last season and what I could see at the prospect camp I don't believe that Zadina is doing any better than Berggren would be doing right now.

And I do agree that everyone has bad shifts from time to time. Zadina's problem is having 4 of them in a row too consistently. It's tiring to watch him helpless in his own zone shift after shift after shift.

Fabbri is producing like a legit top 6 player (as discussed in another thread) and he brings versatility as a 3 position forward. He also brings a tenacity that the other two do not. His points are very rarely on beautiful skill plays but just from putting his nose to the grindstone and outworking the other guys. That is why I think he's fine anywhere from the 1st to the 3rd line. He's kind of our new Dan Cleary, and that's A-OK by me.

It will be interesting to see Zadina when Vrana comes back. There was some great chemistry there. Zadina needs to have at least one guy who can fly on his line and at least one guy who likes the dirty areas in order to be effective. Unless we are going to have the kind of players to make a puck possession game possible - he's much more of an east-west guy. Still needs to get stronger. Berggren has a lot of tools and is smart, but its hard to extrapolate how his game will translate. He could easily be a 2nd line playmaking winger, but equally he could be a euro-leagues star in a few years. Ironically I think as long as the third linemate was more of a grinding style, Zadina and Berggren could link pretty well,

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I’ll say this about Zadina, you can tell he wants to win.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Good guy Haula

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I will internally consider this game a win in terms of progress if we score two goals, both from one of the younger guys

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

lol wrong thread I was like "damn people really lost interest"

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Deserves a callup?

 

[RRhoads]

Deserves a callup?

He will probably get one when the Griffins are out of playoff contention.

 

[lilidk]

I like to see what he could do playing with Vrana

 

[Filppula]

This kid is severely underrated. Massive talent.

 

[Hen Kolland]

This kid is severely underrated. Massive talent.

Not all that close to a label of “severely underrated”. This has the stench of homerism. I have quite a number of friends in the Grand Rapids area from my time in school that I trust who have made mention of notable positioning problems.

He’s going to come up and require a sheltered role in the NHL, not too dissimilar to Athanasiou. He’s going to create offensive chances, no doubt, but he’s not likely to be a reliable top 6 forward in the immediate future; he’ll be a spark plug that you hope can round out and become a plus quality 2nd line guy.

The potential is definitely there, but the fan base needs to slow their roll a touch.

 

[Dotter]

I'm not that high on Berggren. I think he has potential to be a decent offensive player. I don't like to throw around names Tatar and Nyquist, but that's the level of impact I see him toping out as. Both are decent players, but nothing special... "vanilla" is the word I am looking for.

My sleeper prospect is Soderblom who also has a long ways to go.

 

[lilidk]

I'm not that high on Berggren. I think he has potential to be a decent offensive player. I don't like to throw around names Tatar and Nyquist, but that's the level of impact I see him toping out as. Both are decent players, but nothing special... "vanilla" is the word I am looking for.

My sleeper prospect is Soderblom who also has a long ways to go.

I have more questions marks towards Soderblom than Bergreen.

 

[Dotter]

I have more questions marks towards Soderblom than Bergreen.

As you should. Soderblom has a long ways to go. But if he pans out, he's going to be the polar opposite of the very definition of "vanilla", he's going to be otherworldly.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I have more questions marks towards Soderblom than Bergreen.

Not more questions…but more important questions. Like his skating

 

[haulinbass]

I'm not that high on Berggren. I think he has potential to be a decent offensive player. I don't like to throw around names Tatar and Nyquist, but that's the level of impact I see him toping out as. Both are decent players, but nothing special... "vanilla" is the word I am looking for.

My sleeper prospect is Soderblom who also has a long ways to go.

I would say a Nyquist level player at 33 overall is a homerun. What more would you hope for? Nyquist would have been a big part of this team had we the other players we needed to go forward at the time.

Yeah we need another superstar forward (C preferably), but we aren't likely going to get that outside the top 10. If and when we get that player, we will need a couple nyquists in the cupboard or we aren't going to be going forward.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I would say a Nyquist level player at 33 overall is a homerun. What more would you hope for? Nyquist would have been a big part of this team had we the other players we needed to go forward at the time.

Yeah we need another superstar forward (C preferably), but we aren't likely going to get that outside the top 10. If and when we get that player, we will need a couple nyquists in the cupboard or we aren't going to be going forward.

Killorn and Palat are pretty good players, Yzerman valued those guys.

 

[lilidk]

Not more questions…but more important questions. Like his skating

His skating is good ,I am more worry about his decision making at much faster environment

 

[Dotter]

I would say a Nyquist level player at 33 overall is a homerun. What more would you hope for? Nyquist would have been a big part of this team had we the other players we needed to go forward at the time.

Yeah we need another superstar forward (C preferably), but we aren't likely going to get that outside the top 10. If and when we get that player, we will need a couple nyquists in the cupboard or we aren't going to be going forward.

You don't even have to draft players like Nyquist, they are available in the bargain bin during FA. That said, yes at 33 is a good pick (not homerun), Patrice Bergeron is a homerun.

The benefit of players like Nyquist and (possibly) Berggren is cost control when it comes time to competing for a cup. You need 15/20 goal scorers to chip in on the 3rd line on ELC when you're chasing a cup. Hell, Tatar was a healthy scratch in Montreal. And Tatar at 60th overall was a good pick (not homerun).

 

[haulinbass]

You don't even have to draft players like Nyquist, they are available in the bargain bin during FA. That said, yes at 33 is a good pick (not homerun), Patrice Bergeron is a homerun.

The benefit of players like Nyquist and (possibly) Berggren is cost control when it comes time to competing for a cup. You need 15/20 goal scorers to chip in on the 3rd line on ELC when you're chasing a cup. Hell, Tatar was a healthy scratch in Montreal. And Tatar at 60th overall was a good pick (not homerun).

UFA is the bargin bin huh? I must be living in a different reality than you. How I see it, the longer you can avoid the "bargin bin" the longer your chances of maintaining playoff success. You dip into the "bargin bin" when you have to.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

His skating is good ,I am more worry about his decision making at much faster environment

His decision making with the puck is fine. Berggren makes good use of his teammates, throws checks and is willing to dig in the corners to get the puck back, although that’s not a real strength of his game.

Where he really needs to improve is on the backcheck when the cycle is in his zone. It’s not so much inability but more like he’s deciding if he wants to be open for a breakout or if he wants to shadow his guy. Defense isn’t really his calling card. And it looks worse when you have bad defensemen like GR and Detroit that can’t run a bantam house league level breakout.

Berggren could be a great asset as a line’s puck carrier and playmaker. However I’d want him on a line similar to Detroit’s first line. The other two guys on his line will need to cover for him defensively so that he can play to his strengths.

On our current team if he was on a line with Suter and Vrana or Zadina I think they’d all get killed in their end and nobody would look good.

Rasmussen/Soderblom - Veleno (or UFA 2 way center) - Berggren might have some potential.

 

[Gniwder]

His decision making with the puck is fine. Berggren makes good use of his teammates, throws checks and is willing to dig in the corners to get the puck back, although that’s not a real strength of his game.

Where he really needs to improve is on the backcheck when the cycle is in his zone. It’s not so much inability but more like he’s deciding if he wants to be open for a breakout or if he wants to shadow his guy. Defense isn’t really his calling card. And it looks worse when you have bad defensemen like GR and Detroit that can’t run a bantam house league level breakout.

Berggren could be a great asset as a line’s puck carrier and playmaker. However I’d want him on a line similar to Detroit’s first line. The other two guys on his line will need to cover for him defensively so that he can play to his strengths.

On our current team if he was on a line with Suter and Vrana or Zadina I think they’d all get killed in their end and nobody would look good.

Rasmussen/Soderblom - Veleno (or UFA 2 way center) - Berggren might have some potential.

Veleno needs a playmaking winger on one side because he doesn't seem to have good offensive vision as far as passing. That might be one way to put together a 3rd line next season. I'm just hoping Zadina doesn't wind up on that line.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm not that high on Berggren. I think he has potential to be a decent offensive player. I don't like to throw around names Tatar and Nyquist, but that's the level of impact I see him toping out as. Both are decent players, but nothing special... "vanilla" is the word I am looking for.

My sleeper prospect is Soderblom who also has a long ways to go.

Because the Wings have such an abundance of decent offensive players.

 

[Dotter]

Because the Wings have such an abundance of decent offensive players.

Most rebuilding teams don't. Check back in 2027.

 

[Gniwder]

Most rebuilding teams don't. Check back in 2027.

You're strange a guy.

On one thread you're saying Zadina and Raz aren't busts while on another you say that Berggren is "nothing special" because he's Tatar/Nyquist level. You realize that Raz and Zadina would have to show drastic improvement to get anywhere close to that level....

 

[Dotter]

You're strange a guy.

On one thread you're saying Zadina and Raz aren't busts while on another you say that Berggren is "nothing special" because he's Tatar/Nyquist level. You realize that Raz and Zadina would have to show drastic improvement to get anywhere close to that level....

Where did I call Berggren a bust? Zadina isn't anything special either. Doesn't make him a bust; you could say he's underperforming for his draft position. But look at the history of 6th overall picks and you'll see he's not really.

Ras is special, he's a 210# 6'6" centerman that can skate and chip in offensively. Big players take longer to develop.