32nd AHL franchise

[210]

If he was interested he would have known it was $6M or less to buy in (because there's no way in hell it's over $1M to buy out of the ECHL)...so there's no way that got to day two of the process without him being OK with the cost.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I don't know the specifics at all, but even if Lamar Hunt has a billion dollars, he could still decide that $5mil+ was too much to spend to move from the ECHL to the AHL. Just like I can afford to buy a new BMW, but I think it is too expensive compared to a used Nissan for the value it would provide me. I'd rather spend my money on something else. Hunt could have made a similar decision despite his wealth.

uh why is an ECHL expansion franchise going rate is 5 M, royals, but a transfer of territory is not, as in the case of Alaska to Portland, DID YOU FORGET when Spectra was awarded an expansion team in the AHL it was only 125K, to secure the territory and the rights

 

[JMCx4]

If he was interested he would have known it was $6M or less to buy in (because there's no way in hell it's over $1M to buy out of the ECHL)...so there's no way that got to day two of the process without him being OK with the cost.

Agree. There must've been more to Lamar-Jr's reasoning than just the franchise costs. More likely some disagreement over how much of an ownership share he'd receive in the Blues for his initial investment.

 

[royals119]

uh why is an ECHL expansion franchise going rate is 5 M, royals, but a transfer of territory is not, as in the case of Alaska to Portland, DID YOU FORGET when Spectra was awarded an expansion team in the AHL it was only 125K, to secure the territory and the rights

I didn't say an ECHL expansion is $5million. I didn't forget that Spectra got an expansion team in the AHL for $125K, because I wasn't aware of that in the first place. Sounds kind of low though - is that a recent transaction, because I'm not aware of Spectra owning an AHL team currently?

A different poster said it would have been somewhere north of $5 million to go from ECHL to AHL in KC, and that was deemed to expensive. I didn't dispute or confirm the number. Someone else said because it is Lamar Hunt $5million couldn't be deemed too expensive (because he is a multimillionaire I presume). My only point was, even if you have a lot of money, you can still decide that something is too expensive. That's how rich guys like him stay rich, they don't spend all their money. Lottery winners and former pro athletes tend to think that way - and look how many of them end up bankrupt because they spent hundreds of millions of dollars thinking nothing is "too expensive" when you have a big bank balance.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I didn't say an ECHL expansion is $5million. I didn't forget that Spectra got an expansion team in the AHL for $125K, because I wasn't aware of that in the first place. Sounds kind of low though - is that a recent transaction, because I'm not aware of Spectra owning an AHL team currently?

A different poster said it would have been somewhere north of $5 million to go from ECHL to AHL in KC, and that was deemed to expensive. I didn't dispute or confirm the number. Someone else said because it is Lamar Hunt $5million couldn't be deemed too expensive (because he is a multimillionaire I presume). My only point was, even if you have a lot of money, you can still decide that something is too expensive. That's how rich guys like him stay rich, they don't spend all their money. Lottery winners and former pro athletes tend to think that way - and look how many of them end up bankrupt because they spent hundreds of millions of dollars thinking nothing is "too expensive" when you have a big bank balance.

Spectra did both, royals, how did you think Portland and Philadelphia (Lehigh Valley) were granted, who actually founded both franchises and put their stamp on it, Spectra is more than an arena operator, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KC and that false belief you're purporting

 

[Captain Crash]

Spectra did both, royals, how did you think Portland and Philadelphia (Lehigh Valley) were granted, who actually founded both franchises and put their stamp on it, Spectra is more than an arena operator, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KC and that false belief you're purporting

What

 

[LadyStanley]

I think Seattle should try placing their affiliate in Idaho.
I truly believe Vegas and the Chicago Wolves should always be affiliates, but if Vegas wants to put their AHL team in a place that highly supports the Golden Knights then I think Seattle's affiliate should be the Chicago Wolves. Or if St. Louis wants the 32nd AHL team, then maybe Seattle can take San Antonio.

VGK has claimed Idaho as part of it's territory. They've done two summer tours to Boise to pump up fans.

So, moving on from Chicago to Boise might make sense for VGK.

But are ECHL Boise owners interested in selling territory/affiliate (to be upgraded to AHL)?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

VGK has claimed Idaho as part of it's territory. They've done two summer tours to Boise to pump up fans.

So, moving on from Chicago to Boise might make sense for VGK.

But are ECHL Boise owners interested in selling territory/affiliate (to be upgraded to AHL)?

Reason Chicago and Vegas make sense is because of the flights going from Vegas to Chicago daily. Boise is just closer to Seattle so for all we know Seattle claims them as part of their territory when they come to the NHL. I just believe that's the affiliate that makes the most sense for them right now, unless like I said, St. Louis wants the 32nd AHL team and Seattle takes the lease for the Rampage from St. Louis. But right now I'd say Seattle and Idaho would be the likely affiliates.

I can't think of anybody else Seattle would likely be affiliated with other than the San Antonio Rampage, Chicago Wolves, Utah, or Idaho. Unless something unexpected happens, like Seattle putting their AHL team in the east.

EDIT: Houston would be a strong possibility.

 

[mk80]

Too costly for Lamar Hunt Jr? You'll forgive me for laughing at anyone that believes that. It's $5M for the AHL franchise and there's no way the exit fees for the ECHL are anything substantial.

Don't shoot the messenger. That's at least the reported reasoning I have the full article linked below along with the excerpt posted.

I don't know the specifics at all, but even if Lamar Hunt has a billion dollars, he could still decide that $5mil+ was too much to spend to move from the ECHL to the AHL. Just like I can afford to buy a new BMW, but I think it is too expensive compared to a used Nissan for the value it would provide me. I'd rather spend my money on something else. Hunt could have made a similar decision despite his wealth.

"The Blues entered talks with potential ownership groups in Kansas City and Indianapolis about an expansion club, but the price proved too expensive. The two cities already have ECHL franchises — the Kansas City Mavericks and the Indy Fuel — and the combined costs of the AHL franchise fee, ECHL exit fee and other financial factors would have totaled an estimated $7 million-plus."

Full Article: Blues add AHL affiliate in San Antonio — for next year

 

[210]

What are the "other financial factors"?

 

[VikingAv]

What are the "other financial factors"?

Maybe some upgrades to the arena?

Iirc there were some upgrades that needed to be made when the Eagles moved up.

 

[LadyStanley]

What are the "other financial factors"?

Guessing....
Probably along the lines off all the work needed to change leagues (legal, merchandise, etc.), increase in player costs (higher weekly salary outlay). There may be more game running costs (additional off ice personnel from doctors to stats).

 

[Cacciaguida]

What are the chances Tacoma gets a team to go with Seattle?

Tacoma Totems sounds real nice. We already got a new Roadrunners team...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

What are the chances Tacoma gets a team to go with Seattle?

Tacoma Totems sounds real nice. We already got a new Roadrunners team...

there's no ice plant in Tacoma, and all the construction is focused on Seattle Center

 

[PCSPounder]

What are the chances Tacoma gets a team to go with Seattle?

Tacoma Totems sounds real nice. We already got a new Roadrunners team...

The chance would be like this:

Tacoma self-realizes, "damn, we're going to lose our concert business to OVG, maybe it's time to reconsider what we do with our building." After that, the city puts money behind a hockey-geared renovation.

Understand... the Tacoma Dome started out by promising the ability to play football and basketball and hockey and whatever else that could fit. It was convention and concert space as well; it's been extraordinarily flexible... which includes the problems that come along with that. The Tacoma Stars (indoor soccer) were the original tenants and lasted nearly as long as the original MISL did. Not long after opening, they'd play high school basketball championships on two floors in the arena with a curtain divider (nowadays, they host HS football championships as well). Eventually, the Tacoma Rockets were WHL expansion in the building... before they ended up moving to Kelowna after 4 seasons. The WCHL Tacoma Sabercats followed close after (trying to move more seats closer to the rink and closing off the upper levels to allay part of the issues plaguing the Rockets), and that lasted five seasons. In between, the Seattle Sounders ("outdoor" soccer) spent a couple years in the building, and the Sonics were there for a year during the 1990s Seattle Center renovations. So it's had an ice plant. It has a history... not quite sustainable for hockey. Thing is, the managers of the place think of it like a convention space with a concert promoter as, from after the hockey left, the "primary tenant."

The ice plant is something Tacoma has done before and can do again, and it wouldn't be too hard in and of itself. The problem is that the seating needs to be more hockey-centric in order to draw crowds and be sustainable, and it is nowhere near that. To do that takes money the city probably won't spend. Chances are that they consider the dome to be a "convention hall with options" and will continue to operate in that manner. However, they're probably about to lose some business and perhaps have to ask themselves some hard questions.

 

[210]

Maybe some upgrades to the arena?

Iirc there were some upgrades that needed to be made when the Eagles moved up.

​

Guessing....
Probably along the lines off all the work needed to change leagues (legal, merchandise, etc.), increase in player costs (higher weekly salary outlay). There may be more game running costs (additional off ice personnel from doctors to stats).

The city owns the arena the Mavs play, so the Mavs might not be on the hook for improvement costs. Plus with Hunt interested in bringing the NHL to Kansas City it would probably have made more sense for his AHL team to play in the Sprint Center anyway.

Merchandise sales, at least theoretically, pay for themselves so that's not going to be it, and player costs are zero in the AHL as they are included in the affiliation agreement with the NHL club...which would have been a known cost between the two parties because there's no way that wouldn't have been talked about on day one of any partnership between the Blues and Hunt. The ECHL and AHL have virtually identical off ice requirements in terms of medical and statistical staff so that's not a consideration here.

 

[JMCx4]

... player costs are zero in the AHL as they are included in the affiliation agreement with the NHL club...

Even the guys under AHL contracts & ECHL call-ups?

 

[210]

Even the guys under AHL contracts & ECHL call-ups?

Yes.

 

[Boxer Courage]

“there's no ice plant in Tacoma, and all the construction is focused on Seattle Center”

This is not an argument. If someone has money for an AHL team, they have money to install an ice plant. At one point in time, every arena in every league did not have an ice plant, but one was installed. I’m only nitpicking this because I see this reason given all the time as to why it’s impossible for location X to get a hockey team. Now, I don’t think Tacoma gets AHL Seattle, but it’s not because the dome doesn’t have ice. They had ice in the 90s for the Sabrecats, and if they really wanted it, they would get it again.

 

[royals119]

“ At one point in time, every arena in every league did not have an ice plant, but one was installed.

I agree with your main point, that if there is an arena capable of adding ice, and someone wants to put a team there, just adding an ice plant isn't an absolute barrier.

However, just to nitpick your nitpick a little, the statement above isn't true - at least the way I read it. Many arenas were built with an ice plant from day one. Just to give one example of many, the arena in Reading was built with the intention of hosting hockey, it always had ice, and was specifically designed for hockey. (with the ability to also host basketball, arena football, concerts, etc too). So it isn't true that "every arena in every league didn't have an ice plant at one point, and one had to be added".

 

[210]

I think he's saying not every building was originally built with an ice plant...

 

[Tommy Hawk]

So all this talk and speculation when there isn't even a 32nd NHL team yet. And remember, if you want to be in the AHL, you need a franchise license. There are 31 of them. No more, no less. All are in use. The ECHL franchise license is irrelevant to the AHL. So, just like VGK, IF the NHL does actually get a 32nd team, things will fall into place at that time.

 

[royals119]

So all this talk and speculation when there isn't even a 32nd NHL team yet. And remember, if you want to be in the AHL, you need a franchise license. There are 31 of them. No more, no less. All are in use. The ECHL franchise license is irrelevant to the AHL. So, just like VGK, IF the NHL does actually get a 32nd team, things will fall into place at that time.

It's not much of an "if" at this point. You can check out the Seattle thread on the business of hockey board for more details, but the NHL executive committee already gave approval for the Seattle bid to move forward. They have started preliminary construction work to bring the old Key Arena up to modern standards. The full NHL board of governors vote is in a week or two, and there is no reason to suspect they won't make it completely official at that point. The NHL team is expected to start play in 2020, so it wouldn't be surprising to start hearing more substantial rumors about who is going to buy the next AHL expansion team within a few months.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

So all this talk and speculation when there isn't even a 32nd NHL team yet. And remember, if you want to be in the AHL, you need a franchise license. There are 31 of them. No more, no less. All are in use. The ECHL franchise license is irrelevant to the AHL. So, just like VGK, IF the NHL does actually get a 32nd team, things will fall into place at that time.

uh, who forced Vegas to sign to replace St. Louis into becoming Chicago's parent club and 2) where exactly did the 31st franchise license that is now the Colorado Eagles and who awarded that license?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

uh, who forced Vegas to sign to replace St. Louis into becoming Chicago's parent club and 2) where exactly did the 31st franchise license that is now the Colorado Eagles and who awarded that license?

the Blues where trying to tell the Wolves to act Like every other AHL team but the Hershey bears.
St. Louis Blues: Chicago Wolves Demise Will Delight Some Fans