32nd AHL franchise
- Thread starter Agalloch
- Start date
JungleJON
Registered User
- May 10, 2011
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If you look at current ECHL teams, maybe Utah (SLC) or Idaho (Boise) would be a good match - they have flights to Seattle and already have a good fan base. Don't think one of the American based WHL Canadian Junior teams would switch. You might even throw in Fresno, as they have a nice arena and might like the AHL exposure.
Agalloch
EliteProspects
I agree. Vancouver will most likely move their farm team too in the North West when Seattle will arrive.
UticaHockey
Registered User
That is one carefully worded statement. "says his league is already working with the Seattle ownership group on an AHL opportunity to match with the potential expansion team."
"The potential Expansion team" means Seattle in the NHL not an AHL expansion team.
and
"working with the Seattle ownership group on an AHL opportunity" could mean that Seattle will acquire an AHL expansion franchise to become the 32nd team but it could also mean that the AHL will work to match Seattle with an existing independently owned AHL team similar to what Vegas did with Chicago. That would leave an opening for a NHL team that currently has their AHL team in a city with an independent owner to buy an AHL franchise like Colorado just did.
"The potential Expansion team" means Seattle in the NHL not an AHL expansion team.
and
"working with the Seattle ownership group on an AHL opportunity" could mean that Seattle will acquire an AHL expansion franchise to become the 32nd team but it could also mean that the AHL will work to match Seattle with an existing independently owned AHL team similar to what Vegas did with Chicago. That would leave an opening for a NHL team that currently has their AHL team in a city with an independent owner to buy an AHL franchise like Colorado just did.
ottawa
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JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
I dunno, the "th" gives this thread a classy kinda tone, like Ye Olde English.
Agalloch
EliteProspects
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Or it rolls off the tongue for silly monkeys like yours truly.
I'll (sigh) repeat the belief that Vancouver's affiliation to Abbotsford and Seattle's affiliation in Everett (because Tacoma will NOT happen without them abandoning the Tacoma Dome's flexibility, and I question whether Tacoma will choose to stand and fight with OVG for concerts + continue to host high school championships instead of destroy the innards of the Dome to create a more intimate setting for hockey. They treat the place more like convention space).
If there's a move to Boise instead of around Seattle, then all bets are off in regards to the Canucks and Comets. Not convinced that SLC is practical for Vancouver.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
DudeWhereIsMakar
Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
I think Seattle should try placing their affiliate in Idaho.
I truly believe Vegas and the Chicago Wolves should always be affiliates, but if Vegas wants to put their AHL team in a place that highly supports the Golden Knights then I think Seattle's affiliate should be the Chicago Wolves. Or if St. Louis wants the 32nd AHL team, then maybe Seattle can take San Antonio.
Utica has been showing great support, but if the Canucks leave then I'd think the only team I see going there is the Devils' affiliate, if it doesn't work out in Binghamton of course. But there might be another NHL team interested in putting their AHL team there.
But Vancouver I think puts their AHL team in Abbotsford/Chilliwack if they were to move closer.
I truly believe Vegas and the Chicago Wolves should always be affiliates, but if Vegas wants to put their AHL team in a place that highly supports the Golden Knights then I think Seattle's affiliate should be the Chicago Wolves. Or if St. Louis wants the 32nd AHL team, then maybe Seattle can take San Antonio.
Utica has been showing great support, but if the Canucks leave then I'd think the only team I see going there is the Devils' affiliate, if it doesn't work out in Binghamton of course. But there might be another NHL team interested in putting their AHL team there.
But Vancouver I think puts their AHL team in Abbotsford/Chilliwack if they were to move closer.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
We can extend this... Abbotsford/Chilliwack/Victoria/The-Ever-Rumored-Surrey-Arena/PNE/Langley-If-The-Giants-Make-Surrey-Happen/The-Platonic-Floating-Burrard-Inlet-Arena-Of-Your-Dreams...
They have options.
They have options.
royals119
Registered User
Ultimately the location has to be approved by the AHL board of governors, which includes the NHL teams that own AHL teams in the pacific now. They formed that division with two goals in mind - get their AHL affiliates near their NHL teams, and create a cluster of AHL teams close to each other, playing a short schedule, almost exclusively in division, so they aren't spending a lot of time traveling. Seems to me like those owners would prefer a city like Fresno, Long Beach, or Sacramento over places like Boise, Abbotsford, or Everett.
If the new Seattle owners agree, then cities like Boise and Abbotsford are at a disadvantage compared to a California location. (similar in terms of callups, but much further from their opponents) Of course the Seattle owners also have other motives and restrictions. They may not actually want to own the team so might be looking for an arrangement like Colorado or Vegas has. They might prefer to own the team, but be concerned about the cost of operating an AHL team, so they could prioritize a more favorable lease, in a city that is going to have corporate support and good attendance.
Until the make an announcement, or they reveal their priorities in making the selection, it is impossible to say that a particular location is absolutely the best, or absolutely not going to be considered.
If the new Seattle owners agree, then cities like Boise and Abbotsford are at a disadvantage compared to a California location. (similar in terms of callups, but much further from their opponents) Of course the Seattle owners also have other motives and restrictions. They may not actually want to own the team so might be looking for an arrangement like Colorado or Vegas has. They might prefer to own the team, but be concerned about the cost of operating an AHL team, so they could prioritize a more favorable lease, in a city that is going to have corporate support and good attendance.
Until the make an announcement, or they reveal their priorities in making the selection, it is impossible to say that a particular location is absolutely the best, or absolutely not going to be considered.
the problem with the above is, what cities haven't been tried multiple times, in various forms, royals, why did Fresno collapse mid season a few years back, and how do you prevent that from reoccurring, until a market states we're not interested.... how do you know Fresno wants pro hockey, when it has been shown that a less profitable franchise or a different model has succeeded there rather successfully. will those teams agree to sacrifice territory to bring another team in to a crowded CA market... there simply isn't enough of a basis that any existing hockey team that is in the NW, PRO OR JUNIOR, in the case of Everett, or Kent, since Seattle has a WHL existing franchise, it is highly doubtful you're going to get them out of an existing fanbase they've already have drawn upon for decades or more..... how much is Long Beach REALLY GOING TO matter, and why did the Ice Dogs ultimately disappear and are a footnote in hockey's history, the only reason LB would survive now is the backing of the NHL club and how many teams now are looking at the Blues model where they simply are not interested in running an affiliated franchise, and have stated that fact.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Sacramento is not hockey ready and generally a non-starter. Long Beach is a continually floundering hockey market; at no point did it ever sustain anything for any acceptable length of time. Fresno is the one market where a different operator has half a chance, but said operator has to make the best of Selland Arena downtown (because the near-campus Save Mart is betrothed to Fresno State and the Falcons most certainly didn't survive that thing). While I can think of a couple towns where I'd build an arena if I had the money, I don't have the money, and anyone else would be a fool to try it on their own. OK, I'd be a fool, too.
I'm going to have to throw Portland into the mixer here. Yesterday was the first I realized that Oregon labor unions put a stop to the Winterhawks trying to get an exemption to minimum wage laws. I think that puts the WHL + Portland combo on thin ice.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
It's also the perfect distance from every other NHL market such that it'll wonder why it has to have an affiliation.
The ECHL isn't a comparison... Dallas doesn't keep enough personnel in Boise to worry about having players bounce back and forth, so there's more of an appearance of independence with the Steelheads. That changes if they go AHL.
More important, it doesn't pair as well with Salt Lake the way a Puget Sound team would pair with a Lower Mainland team. The latter is easy driving distance, the former is subject to weather issues (otherwise, for someone who did a lot of "commuting" from Boise to SLC or Portland, while it's 5 hours or so, BOI-SLC is not the hardest driving distance out west).
Does that announcement come right after Milwaukee is named the 32nd NHL city?
I am afraid that Milwaukee will never be in the NHL unless a team moves here. The St Louis Blues came close in the 1990s.
Bill Wirtz was head of the expansion committee and I am sure that he worked behind the scenes to see that he had no competition, even at the expense of a geographic rival who could bring fans to his stadium. He was a really bad business man and a poor owner. Rocky Wirtz is so much better!
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Not that such agreements are iron clad, but St. Louis is in Year 1 of a five-year affiliation with the Rampage.
Centrum Hockey
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2018
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the blues have said they don’t want to own a ahl team they sold there ahl team to a owner that relocated it twice before
mk80
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
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The Blues and Lamar Hunt (KC Mavericks owner) did try to work to move the Mavericks into the AHL before Colorado was awarded the 31st franchise thus the Eagles making the jump. The only thing that ended up holding them back was the exit fees of the ECHL combined with AHL expansion fees were deemed to be costly to pay and I believe the Avs had some sort of priority bid on the 31st franchise.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
I don't see this history having much bearing on where the 32nd franchise will end up. The rebranded KC Mavericks are very stable financially - and winning for a change - so the incentive to resume any plans for promotion to the AHL has greatly diminished. Meanwhile the Blues-Hunt Jr. partnership appears to have dissolved, as young(-ish) Lamar refocuses his hockey energies on building whatever arena for whatever junior team in whatever location around the KC Metro.
mk80
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- Jul 30, 2012
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Yes it does seem Hunt is focused on bringing junior hockey to KC, most likely a move of Topeka in the NAHL since he owns them. My post was more in response to one above that I failed to quote stating the Blues had no interest in owning an AHL team, which if that Mavericks plan had gone through Hunt would have become a minority owner in the Blues.
210
Registered User
Too costly for Lamar Hunt Jr? You'll forgive me for laughing at anyone that believes that. It's $5M for the AHL franchise and there's no way the exit fees for the ECHL are anything substantial.
royals119
Registered User
I don't know the specifics at all, but even if Lamar Hunt has a billion dollars, he could still decide that $5mil+ was too much to spend to move from the ECHL to the AHL. Just like I can afford to buy a new BMW, but I think it is too expensive compared to a used Nissan for the value it would provide me. I'd rather spend my money on something else. Hunt could have made a similar decision despite his wealth.
