Post-Game Talk: #31: FLYERS at Canucks, Saturday, Dec. 15, 2018, 10:00 pm ET

[Ghosts Beer]

Not with any coach.
That would be a 108 point pace.
We don't have a starting goalie, and Howard, Anderson, et al aren't good enough to carry a team.

Yup. Those who think Quenneville will turn it all around are forgetting his woeful record without Crawford in net last season.
He’s a good coach, but coaches aren’t magicians.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Yup. Those who think Quenneville will turn it all around are forgetting his woeful record without Crawford in net last season.
He’s a good coach, but coaches aren’t magicians.

I can't say that I speak with certainty on this topic but who knows what is ongoing in the mind of Quenneville. He may want a challenge, he may want geography, money and security, he may want additional power. The two best coaches in the Flyers' history both departed the organization over a desire to have a say in personnel moves. He may get more solace somewhere else. That goes with most managerial hirings but at the same time, tires should have been kicked by now.

 

[macleish1974]

How are ticket sales for the outdoor game? Bourgeois capitalist Scott is shitting in his pants. Remember these guys bonuses are based on ticket sales, etc

 

[FLYguy3911]

0 for Canada.

 

[Starat327]

Yup. Those who think Quenneville will turn it all around are forgetting his woeful record without Crawford in net last season.
He’s a good coach, but coaches aren’t magicians.

I don't think anyone is expecting Q to save the season. But it would be nice to watch enjoyable hockey for a change. Something Hakstol has been unable to provide in almost 4 years.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I can't say that I speak with certainty on this topic but who knows what is ongoing in the mind of Quenneville. He may want a challenge, he may want geography, money and security, he may want additional power. The two best coaches in the Flyers' history both departed the organization over a desire to have a say in personnel moves. He may get more solace somewhere else. That goes with most managerial hirings but at the same time, tires should have been kicked by now.

I agree. I'm sure the Flyers have pushed hard for him, and are probably offering him a ton of money. But he very well may prefer other opportunities for a variety of reasons, such as personnel power, location, and roster composition.

Quenneville is a really good coach, no question about it. But his last 3 seasons in Chicago were 1st rd. loss, 1st rd. loss, 33-39-10. And their record last season was absolutely dreadful without Crawford in net. A coach can only do so much. Give a great chef nothing but Alpo, and he might make it look a little better, but it's still ultimately dog food.

 

[Striiker]

Hak lovers are scrambling

 

[DancingPanther]

I'm looking for tweets. Have there been any tweets?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nobody thinks Q can save the season. Hakstol already killed it by Thanksgiving.

The point now is limiting the damage he's doing.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Starting a goalie who is coming off serious offseason surgery on a back to back and not pulling the goalie with the extra man the other night.
Indefensible. But we have seen this movie before haven’t we.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't think anyone is expecting Q to save the season. But it would be nice to watch enjoyable hockey for a change. Something Hakstol has been unable to provide in almost 4 years.

Quenneville's systems aren't exactly modern, and he's been criticized at times for sitting back with a lead. One of the first things Colliton changed in Chicago was installing a more aggressive defensive system in their own zone. Many bash Hakstol's systems as being outdated and for going into a "shell," so that's something to keep in mind.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

I agree. I'm sure the Flyers have pushed hard for him, and are probably offering him a ton of money. But he very well may prefer other opportunities for a variety of reasons, such as personnel power, location, and roster composition.

Quenneville is a really good coach, no question about it. But his last 3 seasons in Chicago were 1st rd. loss, 1st rd. loss, 33-39-10. And their record last season was absolutely dreadful without Crawford in net. A coach can only do so much. Give a great chef nothing but Alpo, and he might make it look a little better, but it's still ultimately dog food.

I said earlier that there is a difference between losing and being trounced (i.e. TORO, WINN) and/or embarrassed (i.e. CALG). Some people may subscribe to the theory that a loss is a loss. I don't. There is an emotional element that highly paid players need to be motivated both internally and externally. The former is through themselves, the latter via coaches. If playing for what was once a highly esteemed professional organization that was the envy of many is not enough, then those people need to be changed. If it is the second issue, same result. Pro sports in varying ways is consumed by the unbridled principle you can't fire 25 baseball players so you fire the manager. If these guys think they tried hard and still lost by four goals to a decent but not great team, then they are not talented enough as a group and part of that is coaching but some of it is personnel. Moral victories have privileges, getting devoured does not and that includes firing a coach. It is a step, even large, but it isn't the only answer. Much work has to be done.

 

[deadhead]

I can't say that I speak with certainty on this topic but who knows what is ongoing in the mind of Quenneville. He may want a challenge, he may want geography, money and security, he may want additional power. The two best coaches in the Flyers' history both departed the organization over a desire to have a say in personnel moves. He may get more solace somewhere else. That goes with most managerial hirings but at the same time, tires should have been kicked by now.

I'm sure tires have been kicked.
Usually, there's a call to the agent gauging interest.
If the interest is serious, preliminary negotiations begin.
If there is a sense that the two parties are in general agreement, real negotiations begin.

 

[deadhead]

Starting a goalie who is coming off serious offseason surgery on a back to back and not pulling the goalie with the extra man the other night.
Indefensible. But we have seen this movie before haven’t we.

Uh, the alternative was Lyon.
Sometimes the only way to find out if a goalie can handle the load is to play him.
And again, the alternative was Lyon.

 

[Striiker]

Nobody thinks Q can save the season. Hakstol already killed it by Thanksgiving.

The point now is limiting the damage he's doing.

This is exactly what the contrarians have decided to pretend everyone on here believes.

In reality it's about stopping the cancer from spreading before it gets any worse and giving the team a chance to heal. It's not going to be fixed overnight, but it'll never have a chance to be fixed so long as Hakstol is here.

Obviously goaltending is a problem (shoutout to Hakstol for making it even worse) and that won't magically be solved, but in the mean time the teams biggest issue can be addressed and young players will hopefully stop being treated so horribly.

 

[Starat327]

Quenneville's systems aren't exactly modern, and he's been criticized at times for sitting back with a lead. One of the first things Colliton changed in Chicago was installing a more aggressive defensive system in their own zone. Many bash Hakstol's systems as being outdated and for going into a "shell," so that's something to keep in mind.

Correct, but he also knows how to use offensive weapons. It normal to play slightly more conservative with a lead. It's abnormal to completely shut down your offense, which is what Hak does.

 

[Starat327]

Uh, the alternative was Lyon.
Sometimes the only way to find out if a goalie can handle the load is to play him.
And again, the alternative was Lyon.

Starting 3 games in 4 days isn't "handling a load", it's utterly ridiculous usage. Even moreso when you consider it was known beforehand that he was having back issues.

More gross mismanagement of the roster that you try to justify.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So what? Lyon is unreliable, just like everyone else this season. Its just asking way too much out of Stolarz given what he went thru over the offseason.
But again this is nothing new. Hakstol has done this before, ridden a goalie until he breaks.

 

[deadhead]

This is exactly what the contrarians have decided to pretend everyone on here believes.

In reality it's about stopping the cancer from spreading before it gets any worse and giving the team a chance to heal. It's not going to be fixed overnight, but it'll never have a chance to be fixed so long as Hakstol is here.

Obviously goaltending is a problem (shoutout to Hakstol for making it even worse) and that won't magically be solved, but in the mean time the teams biggest issue can be addressed and young players will hopefully stop being treated so horribly.

No, the "contrarians" simply reject the idea that it's all the coach and the players are blameless, and actually are a highly talented group that will instantly become a SC contender with Q or other 'hyped' coach.

What was obvious on this trip is as I've said repeatedly, this is the island of misfit toys.
Fletcher needs to reshape this roster, not just get a new coach.

The forwards need more speed, more grit (forechecking), discipline (backchecking) and more skill (shooting).
The defensemen are imbalanced, and it's hard to put together 2, much less 3, reliable pairs.

Yes, they'll play better under a new coach, Flyers played better under Berube for a year.
But real improvement requires both the prospects on the way and reshaping the current roster.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is exactly what the contrarians have decided to pretend everyone on here believes.

In reality it's about stopping the cancer from spreading before it gets any worse and giving the team a chance to heal. It's not going to be fixed overnight, but it'll never have a chance to be fixed so long as Hakstol is here.

Obviously goaltending is a problem (shoutout to Hakstol for making it even worse) and that won't magically be solved, but in the mean time the teams biggest issue can be addressed and young players will hopefully stop being treated so horribly.

Yeah, I love when goaltending is pointed to as if its some factor outside his control. Never mind that Elliott became injury riddled after Hakstol played him at a pace he's never managed, and he just broke Stolarz playing him back to back coming off a knee injury.

 

[Starat327]

Yeah, I love when goaltending is pointed to as if its some factor outside his control. Never mind that Elliott became injury riddled after Hakstol played him at a pace he's never managed, and he just broke Stolarz playing him back to back coming off a knee injury.

But how will you ever know if he can handle the load if you don't give him time off? It's not the coaches fault Stolie obviously can't handle the load.

 

[tucson83]

This is exactly what the contrarians have decided to pretend everyone on here believes.

In reality it's about stopping the cancer from spreading before it gets any worse and giving the team a chance to heal. It's not going to be fixed overnight, but it'll never have a chance to be fixed so long as Hakstol is here.

Obviously goaltending is a problem (shoutout to Hakstol for making it even worse) and that won't magically be solved, but in the mean time the teams biggest issue can be addressed and young players will hopefully stop being treated so horribly.

i know fletch cant just fire the whole team, it's not how it works, coaches have to be ones to be fired first, if that doesnt solve anything, then you change the personnel.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, I love when goaltending is pointed to as if its some factor outside his control. Never mind that Elliott became injury riddled after Hakstol played him at a pace he's never managed, and he just broke Stolarz playing him back to back coming off a knee injury.

Elliott got injured playing 5 games in three weeks.
People love "urban myths" around here and never fact check.
Guess that's the norm in the age of Trump.

A lot of goalies like a heavy workload because it keeps them in a groove, it's always a balance between riding a hot goalie and making sure you don't overwork him - and goalie injuries are often "flukey."

 

[deadhead]

i know fletch cant just fire the whole team, it's not how it works, coaches have to be ones to be fired first, if that doesnt solve anything, then you change the personnel.

When you're on your 4th coach in 8 years, most GMs start looking at the core players.

 

[YEM]

but coaches aren’t magicians.

Oilers record under Hitchcock is more impressive than David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear