Post-Game Talk: #31: FLYERS at Canucks, Saturday, Dec. 15, 2018, 10:00 pm ET

Psuhockey

Registered User
Nov 17, 2010
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I agree. I'm sure the Flyers have pushed hard for him, and are probably offering him a ton of money. But he very well may prefer other opportunities for a variety of reasons, such as personnel power, location, and roster composition.

Quenneville is a really good coach, no question about it. But his last 3 seasons in Chicago were 1st rd. loss, 1st rd. loss, 33-39-10. And their record last season was absolutely dreadful without Crawford in net. A coach can only do so much. Give a great chef nothing but Alpo, and he might make it look a little better, but it's still ultimately dog food.
Yes but now all eyes are on the players. Quenneville has enough cred that if the players keep coming out flat or quitting at the first sign of adversity, it’s on them. There will be no more the team stinks because of the message getting old under Laviolette or because of the stupidity of Berube or Hakstol. The players can’t hide behind the coach anymore.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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No, the "contrarians" simply reject the idea that it's all the coach and the players are blameless, and actually are a highly talented group that will instantly become a SC contender with Q or other 'hyped' coach.

What was obvious on this trip is as I've said repeatedly, this is the island of misfit toys.
Fletcher needs to reshape this roster, not just get a new coach.

The forwards need more speed, more grit (forechecking), discipline (backchecking) and more skill (shooting).
The defensemen are imbalanced, and it's hard to put together 2, much less 3, reliable pairs.

Yes, they'll play better under a new coach, Flyers played better under Berube for a year. :sarcasm:
But real improvement requires both the prospects on the way and reshaping the current roster.

Exactly. The forwards are too slow and they have a huge hole in the top six where they really need a dynamic skill player. The defense corps is absolutely awful -- that includes Provorov and Ghost having terrible seasons (and they've both played well under Hakstol before, so you can't just point the finger at coaching) and they are supposed to be the top 2 of a bad unit. And of course their goaltending is the worst in the league. So the roster needs an overhaul in addition to a coaching change.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Oilers record under Hitchcock is more impressive than David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear
I'm on record in November saying I wanted to replace Hakstol with Hitchcock, as he may be their best chance at turning the team around mid-season. Edmonton has a better team than the Flyers, though.
 
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pit

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It's not our fault that these Manichaeans have all these names. At his baptismal barn-raising, they dubbed him Jeffrey Daniel Hieronymus Hakstok and dabbed his buttocks with beet juice - after that, we had no choice.

"As it turns out, having no choice would become a theme with Hakstok."

Morgan Freeman, narrator

45IeQxZ.jpg

Feels a bit more like we need a Ron Howard/Arrested Development style narrator at this point.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Yes but now all eyes are on the players. Quenneville has enough cred that if the players keep coming out flat or quitting at the first sign of adversity, it’s on them. There will be no more the team stinks because of the message getting old under Laviolette or because of the stupidity of Berube or Hakstol. The players can’t hide behind the coach anymore.
I agree. I've said many times that they need a coach who has leverage over these players so they have no excuses. And I think Quenneville is a good coach. I'd be happy to have him. But there's some humor in that many of Hakstol's most ardent haters are clamoring for Q, and a lot of the criticisms Q faced in Chicago are similar to criticisms Hakstol routinely receives (playing favorites; too into veterans; not giving young players enough time; not aggressive enough defensively).
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Elliott got injured playing 5 games in three weeks.
People love "urban myths" around here and never fact check.
Guess that's the norm in the age of Trump.

A lot of goalies like a heavy workload because it keeps them in a groove, it's always a balance between riding a hot goalie and making sure you don't overwork him - and goalie injuries are often "flukey."

He got injured after being asked to sustain a pace he's never managed. Fatigue is a thing. Elliott was worn down, fatigue erodes form and leads to breakdowns. I posted a bunch of medical information here backing that up, as did others. Stop living in denial of basic facts.

Elliott is not Luongo or Lundqvist in their primes. He is not Bobrovsky. He's never been the kind of guy you give a heavy workload, or who thrives with a heavy workload. Oh, and let's not forget that those goalies tended to flag in the playoffs; turns out wearing goalies down over the course of a year may not be wise.

There is nothing flukey about Stolarz getting hurt. The guy is obviously not in ideal shape and was coming off a major injury. That he'd be tweaked starting back to back was predictable. I mentioned laid into Hak for the obvious injury risk before the game, and look who was right?
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Feels a bit more like we need a Ron Howard/Arrested Development style narrator at this point.
On the next... Hakstok Development.... Cliff Fletcher stares from the press box while Bob Clarke chokes on his tub of popcorn. Michal Neuvirth suffers a lower body injury while being handed his newborn child. And Captain Dave hatches a scheme to lure Dave Hakstok back to North Dakota.
 

tucson83

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
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When you're on your 4th coach in 8 years, most GMs start looking at the core players.

do you expect every coach to be a cup coach? i mean look the oilers, they never had a good quality coach until they got hitch and that talent has took off. if you think it's easy to find coaches, why dont you apply for gm?
 

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
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Elliott got injured playing 5 games in three weeks.
People love "urban myths" around here and never fact check.
Guess that's the norm in the age of Trump.

A lot of goalies like a heavy workload because it keeps them in a groove, it's always a balance between riding a hot goalie and making sure you don't overwork him - and goalie injuries are often "flukey."
Playing a goalie after coming back from surgery and injury has to be done carefully. They are more prone to stress and fatigue injuries. Elliot keeps hurting his hip. Stolarz his knee. It’s poor management without question. We are talking about a goalie that played a few times over several years and another that’s headed towards retirement age.
 

04hockey

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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amputation is a bit drastic at this point.

amputation ??, we aren't THAT drunk ….. nah, we're thinking more of using a reciprocating saw(Sawzall)…..fire 'er up and go down maybe a 1/16th of an inch and then side to side, slowly back and forth, right to left.....I usually have a steady hand :eek:
Now, need some opinions.....wooden or metal blade ? :huh:
We have a bottle of Bactine on standby JIC(just in case) ;)
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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Roster has no cohesion. Plays like an island of misfit toys. Not related to coaching in any way. Right...
It could be that the Flyers roster on an individual basis is better than the sum of its parts.
CIP-Provorov. What he is and can be won't become fully obvious until he has a competent partner for his pairing. Right now he's attempting to do too much in order to compensate for his partner's failings and it makes him look ordinary and less than the top grade talent that he is.
Hextall really put together a roster of misfits. It doesn't mean that they're all bums but they're out of sync here. Perhaps a different coach can assemble the pieces of the roster in a way to make it work better but I suspect that that would be more of the pounding of square pegs into round holes. It will be better to move some of them even if it means that they do well with their new teams. They didn't work out here.
Aside from Giroux and Couturier, any player over the age of twenty-five should be on the block. Some fan favorites will probably be goners but when the team has the third worst record in the league, there are casualties. Love 'em and leave 'em.
 
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Foggy14

Registered User
Sep 13, 2017
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Cliff Fletcher stares from the press box...

Check.

... while Bob Clarke chokes on his tub of popcorn.

Plausible.

... Captain Dave hatches a scheme to lure Dave Hakstok back to North Dakota.

Very possible, and the right thing to do.

Michal Neuvirth suffers a lower body injury while being handed his newborn child.

I'm calling BS on that one.

That couldn't happen, could it? :D
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
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It could be that the Flyers roster on an individual basis is better than the sum of its parts.
CIP-Provorov. What he is and can be won't become fully obvious until he has a competent partner for his pairing. Right now he's attempting to do too much in order to compensate for his partner's failings and it makes him look ordinary and less than the top grade talent that he is.
Hextall really put together a roster of misfits. It doesn't mean that they're all bums but they're out of sync here. Perhaps a different coach can assemble the pieces of the roster in a way to make it work better but I suspect that that would be more of the pounding of square pegs into round holes. It will be better to move some of them even if it means that they do well with their new teams. They didn't work out here.
Aside from Giroux and Couturier, any player over the age of twenty-five should be on the block. Some fan favorites will probably be goners but when the team has the third worst record in the league, there are casualties. Love 'em and leave 'em.
I think the roster is very overrated by many here.

1. They have league-worst goaltending.

2. They don’t have a 2nd line. (Lindblom & Patrick had a chance to play with the team’s 2nd best scorer, & overall it was a below average 2nd line).

3. The defense corps is below average. Provorov has been a subpar #1. Ghost has been a subpar #2. And they don’t have a good #3. Sanheim is hopefully on his way, but he’s still inconsistent.

4. This is a personal complaint, but Hextall was so obsessed with “professionalism” & off-ice behavior that he built a boring, businessman-like team, including the coach. They don’t play with enough personality & pestiness. And they also are one of the slowest teams in a league that keeps getting faster.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Yes, the past 8 years have demonstrated how vital coaching is. With the three incompetent coaches, the team underperformed. With the good coach, they hit their potential.

They had 98 points last year, 96 two years ago, that was their potential.
They had 49 points in 48 games in 2012-13 under Lavi, I doubt that was their potential.
The next year they had 94 points under Berube.

Teams fluctuate year to year.
Eventually, most coaches wear out their welcome, even top coaches.

Talent will out, some coaches can get more out of talent on a consistent basis, but no coach is a miracle worker.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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It could be that the Flyers roster on an individual basis is better than the sum of its parts.
CIP-Provorov. What he is and can be won't become fully obvious until he has a competent partner for his pairing. Right now he's attempting to do too much in order to compensate for his partner's failings and it makes him look ordinary and less than the top grade talent that he is.
Hextall really put together a roster of misfits. It doesn't mean that they're all bums but they're out of sync here. Perhaps a different coach can assemble the pieces of the roster in a way to make it work better but I suspect that that would be more of the pounding of square pegs into round holes. It will be better to move some of them even if it means that they do well with their new teams. They didn't work out here.
Aside from Giroux and Couturier, any player over the age of twenty-five should be on the block. Some fan favorites will probably be goners but when the team has the third worst record in the league, there are casualties. Love 'em and leave 'em.

Provorov is a perfect example, what he really needs is a veteran top 4 RHD to pair with him. That would take a lot of weight off his shoulders.
Ghost and Sanheim both need a physical RHD, unfortunately we only have one Gudas.
Hagg needs a puck moving RHD.

Lindblom - Patrick need a RW with speed so they can play up tempo (Voracek kills their momentum, he's a "puck hog" who controls the action).

We need a 3C who can get something out of JVR and Simmonds.

And so on, the fit right now on this roster is bad. That will be changed.
 

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