Proposal: 3-way deal TBL-COL-OTT

[Alan Wake]

Problems with this trade:

- Ottawa doesn't get Sergachev
- Ottawa takes on Callahan and doesn't give up Ryan
- Third team is supposed to step in and absorb salary, Colorado is benefiting by getting Tyler Johnson. This is not what a third team is going to do if they get involved.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a Colorado stepping in. But you don't have enough salary to take on the player you want (Johnson) as well as taking on one of, or both, Bobby Ryan and Ryan Callahan.

Which is what both Ottawa and Tampa need to make this trade go through.

Doesn't work.

 

[not a troll]

EJ is 30, and hasn't been able to stay healthy for 3 of the last 4 seasons. Barrie is a Newport client, and might price himself out of Colorado. I agree that Meloche + 2nd is a good deal for Johnson, I just don't see how it helps the Avs in the long term.

We have EJ for 5 more years I don't see him going anywhere even if he's hurt for 1/4 of the season at a time. Barrie deserves a raise and I hope he remains the 2nd pairing guy for a long time. That leaves one spot for Timmins and Makar who are both really good.

Meloche is an expendable piece for TJ who immediately slots in as 2C and is only one year older than Barrie. He can absolutely fit into Sakic's long term plans especially if Jost doesn't pan out and if Jost takes the next step in his development then TJ can slide into wing. Avs 2C and 3C are up for grabs in both short and long term. Soderberg only has two years left on his contract and I don't like the idea of him as 2C going into next season.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Avs have a looot of cap space, I seriously doubt that will be a problem, and if it ever is, Johnson is still only 28 so in 3-4 years his contract probably won't be bad at all.

By my count, we'll be adding $15-20m in cap hit just by re-signing our RFAs next season. Rantanen and Zadorov are going to get paid, and there's still Compher, Kerfoot, and Andrighetto, who all could earn decent raises depending on this year. The year after that, there's Barrie's potential extension, Jost and Girard. That's not counting our prospects who haven't made the NHL yet. So, yes, we have a lot of cap space, but we also have a lot of things to spend that cap space on in the near future. There's no reason to throw a $5m wrench in the plans.

 

[DictatorTots427]

Problems with this trade:

- Ottawa doesn't get Sergachev
- Ottawa takes on Callahan and doesn't give up Ryan
- Third team is supposed to step in and absorb salary, Colorado is benefiting by getting Tyler Johnson. This is not what a third team is going to do if they get involved.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a Colorado stepping in. But you don't have enough salary to take on the player you want (Johnson) as well as taking on one of, or both, Bobby Ryan and Ryan Callahan.

Which is what both Ottawa and Tampa need to make this trade go through.

Doesn't work.

1. Ottawa isn't gonna get Sergachev. I've been saying this, Vegas wouldn't even give up Glass, Karlsson is likely gonna get a package of quantity instead of quality.
2. Ottawa is gonna have to hit the floor somehow.
3. Taking on Johnson is taking on salary, it's just that the salary is that of a valuable player. The main reason Colorado is even involved is because Johnson won't waive his NTC for Ottawa. A team he'd be willing to go to must step in to facilitate the trade.

Ottawa doesn't "need" to dump Ryan for this trade to go through, and afaik it's been reported Ryan won't be packaged. However, TB would have to dump Callahan.

 

[DictatorTots427]

By my count, we'll be adding $15-20m in cap hit just by re-signing our RFAs next season. Rantanen and Zadorov are going to get paid, and there's still Compher, Kerfoot, and Andrighetto, who all could earn decent raises depending on this year. The year after that, there's Barrie's potential extension, Jost and Girard. That's not counting our prospects who haven't made the NHL yet. So, yes, we have a lot of cap space, but we also have a lot of things to spend that cap space on in the near future. There's no reason to throw a $5m wrench in the plans.

Well like I said, in 3-4 years when these extensions come around, Johnson will still have enough value to trade away for a similar return to what you paid for him. You'll also have Varly, Soderberg, etc. coming off the books around then which will help a lot.

Even now, Tampa Bay doesn't have to trade Johnson to re-sign Kuch, Point, Vasilevkiy, etc, they would only need to trade him if they're getting Karlsson. I seriously doubt Johnson's modest contract will pose a threat to the new contracts of your players.

 

[DougGilmour93]

That’s utter garbage for Ottawa!

Miller
+
Foote
+
1st
+
3rd
+
Cap dump

For Karlsson


Anything else is not worth it.


Edited.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

We have EJ for 5 more years I don't see him going anywhere even if he's hurt for 1/4 of the season at a time. Barrie deserves a raise and I hope he remains the 2nd pairing guy for a long time. That leaves one spot for Timmins and Makar who are both really good.

Meloche is an expendable piece for TJ who immediately slots in as 2C and is only one year older than Barrie. He can absolutely fit into Sakic's long term plans especially if Jost doesn't pan out and if Jost takes the next step in his development then TJ can slide into wing. Avs 2C and 3C are up for grabs in both short and long term. Soderberg only has two years left on his contract and I don't like the idea of him as 2C going into next season.

I think it makes a certain amount of sense to expose EJ in the upcoming Seattle expansion draft, protecting Barrie (assuming he extends next off-season), Zadorov and Girard. So, we might need 2 RHD to add to the roster by the start of the 2020-21 season.

And, if Jost doesn't pan out at 2C, we still have Compher, Kerfoot, Kamanev, Bowers, Kaut, etc. to potentially fill out the 2nd line, not to mention Ottawa's 2019 1st. So, that bet is already well hedged, and there's no reason to spend a lot of cap space to try to reduce the risk even more.

 

[Alan Wake]

That’s utter garbage for Ottawa!

Sergachev
+
Howden
+
1st
+
Cap dump

For Karlsson

Anything else is not worth it.

Howden was moved in the McDonagh trade. Do people even bother to remember things before they act like they know what is worth it?

 

[DictatorTots427]

That’s utter garbage for Ottawa!

Sergachev
+
Howden
+
1st
+
Cap dump

For Karlsson

Or you exchange Sergachev with Miller and then exchange Howden with Foote and throw in an extra pick for good measure (if TB wants to hold onto Sergachev).

Anything else is not worth it.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Tampa doesn't even have Howden. This is terrible.

 

[Alan Wake]

1. Ottawa isn't gonna get Sergachev. I've been saying this, Vegas wouldn't even give up Glass, Karlsson is likely gonna get a package of quantity instead of quality.
2. Ottawa is gonna have to hit the floor somehow.
3. Taking on Johnson is taking on salary, it's just that the salary is that of a valuable player. The main reason Colorado is even involved is because Johnson won't waive his NTC for Ottawa. A team he'd be willing to go to must step in to facilitate the trade.

Ottawa doesn't "need" to dump Ryan for this trade to go through, and afaik it's been reported Ryan won't be packaged. However, TB would have to dump Callahan.

I believe that Ottawa will get Sergachev, and as a Tampa fan, I'm completely okay giving him up.

Ottawa will reach the floor, however, Callahan most likely will not waive his no trade to go there. JT Miller to Ottawa is a better option, because his NTC doesn't kick in until next summer.

Every "insider" I see reporting on the trade, speculates that they're working on a third team to take on Ryan/Callahan. If Ottawa gives up on forcing Ryan in the deal, it becomes a lot easier to handle. Moving only Callahan to a third team is a lot more manageable than expecting a team like the Rangers to take on BOTH Callahan and Ryan. I just don't see Ottawa giving up on wanting to move Ryan's albatross contract with Karlsson.

 

[DictatorTots427]

I believe that Ottawa will get Sergachev, and as a Tampa fan, I'm completely okay giving him up.

Ottawa will reach the floor, however, Callahan most likely will not waive his no trade to go there. JT Miller to Ottawa is a better option, because his NTC doesn't kick in until next summer.

Every "insider" I see reporting on the trade, speculates that they're working on a third team to take on Ryan/Callahan. If Ottawa gives up on forcing Ryan in the deal, it becomes a lot easier to handle. Moving only Callahan to a third team is a lot more manageable than expecting a team like the Rangers to take on BOTH Callahan and Ryan. I just don't see Ottawa giving up on wanting to move Ryan's albatross contract with Karlsson.

If I was a Tampa fan, I would not want to give up Sergachev, Ottawa has no leverage whatsoever. They can't afford to refuse a deal that doesn't have Serg because then Karlsson will simply walk.

There's a possibility that whatever third team is involved can also take Callahan, but I doubt a team will want to take on that much salary, especially if they're only getting Johnson(He's a good piece but not worth 10.8M IMO).

 

[not a troll]

I think it makes a certain amount of sense to expose EJ in the upcoming Seattle expansion draft, protecting Barrie (assuming he extends next off-season), Zadorov and Girard. So, we might need 2 RHD to add to the roster by the start of the 2020-21 season.

And, if Jost doesn't pan out at 2C, we still have Compher, Kerfoot, Kamanev, Bowers, Kaut, etc. to potentially fill out the 2nd line, not to mention Ottawa's 2019 1st. So, that bet is already well hedged, and there's no reason to spend a lot of cap space to try to reduce the risk even more.

All those guys have question marks and there is no guarantee they can reach Johnson's level that he is at now. If one or more turns out to be just as good as Johnson or better then great, trade Johnson since he will have waived his NTC to come to Denver and recoup costs. A B-level prospect and a 2nd is a low price to pay for a player like Johnson. We've had better prospects and higher picks not pan out or traded for lesser players.

I'm not concerned about 3rd pairing defenseman or an extra 5MM in cap space for two years when Sakic has the chance to get a 2C and some secondary scoring now. That was the Avs biggest need last season and they struck out on Stastny so Johnson is a good consolation prize even if it means trading away some minor assets.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Well like I said, in 3-4 years when these extensions come around, Johnson will still have enough value to trade away for a similar return to what you paid for him. You'll also have Varly, Soderberg, etc. coming off the books around then which will help a lot.

Even now, Tampa Bay doesn't have to trade Johnson to re-sign Kuch, Point, Vasilevkiy, etc, they would only need to trade him if they're getting Karlsson. I seriously doubt Johnson's modest contract will pose a threat to the new contracts of your players.

Everything I mentioned will happen prior to the 2020-21 season, which is only 2 years away. Why bother acquiring Tyler Johnson if we're just going to trade him in 2 years when we need to move his cap hit to afford our youngsters?

 

[DictatorTots427]

Everything I mentioned will happen prior to the 2020-21 season, which is only 2 years away. Why bother acquiring Tyler Johnson if we're just going to trade him in 2 years when we need to move his cap hit to afford our youngsters?

If the Avs plan on competing for a playoff spot again they need a legit 2C because other teams are improving. Johnson will be good while they wait for Jost/Kerfoot. Plus, like I said, Once Soderberg is off the books, that's the money they would pay to Johnson, so it won't be a problem.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If the Avs plan on competing for a playoff spot again they need a legit 2C because other teams are improving. Johnson will be good while they wait for Jost/Kerfoot. Plus, like I said, Once Soderberg is off the books, that's the money they would pay to Johnson, so it won't be a problem.

I don't think the plan is to try to force ourselves to be a playoff team next year. MacKinnon will turn 23 right before the season starts. Rantanen will be 22 early in the season. Jost and Girard are both 20. We have a ton of young talent coming, and more picks. There's no reason to get impatient. Sakic has mentioned wanting the team to grow up together, like the Nordiques/Avs teams he was on, we need to give them time to do that. We haven't seen the best of anyone, so there's no reason to start hedging our bet already. We went young, we need to stay with what we started, and follow the plan. Younger and faster.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I dont hate Johnson but he is the opposite of what the Avs are trying to do. We want to get younger and I would rather Jost, Kerfoot, and Kamanev fight for that 2C with Jost likely winning.

In a bubble Johnson for Meloche and a 2nd is very fair value, but because we (or whoever facilitates this trade) are the team making this deal happen, we are doing Tampa a huge favor and an overpayment needs to happen. Thinking that way, Tampa is not giving us enough for Meloche + 2nd.

"Why dont you trade Point to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

"Why dont you trade sergachev to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

Understandable that Tampa fans wouldnt want to move their young stars, but teams dont want whatever is leftover to help Tampa win a Cup and have what would arguably be the best defense ever assembled.

Karlsson
Hedman
Sergachev
McDonagh
Stralman
who cares

That simply isnt fair and anything short of an insane overpayment, I hope teams tell them to kick rocks.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Pretty sure that I saw someone saying that TB dropped trying to deal for Karlsson.

Just throwing that out there.

I hope so. Tampa has this baffling idea they can move Johnson and Callahan (essentially cap dumps even though Johnson is a solid 3rd line player on most teams), Sign EK to 7-8 years, not trade any big name (Kuch, Point, Serg, etc), and not have to take on Ryans contract. It would be the best trade in history if anyone fell for this.

 

[AndreRoy]

I hope so. Tampa has this baffling idea they can move Johnson and Callahan (essentially cap dumps even though Johnson is a solid 3rd line player on most teams), Sign EK to 7-8 years, not trade any big name (Kuch, Point, Serg, etc), and not have to take on Ryans contract. It would be the best trade in history if anyone fell for this.

Johnson is a solid top six player on most teams and is in no way a cap dump.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Johnson is a solid top six player on most teams and is in no way a cap dump.

50 points on the highest scoring team weve seen in nearly a decade. Right...

He'd be a 40 point player on all normal teams aka 3rd line maybe seeing 2PP time. He had one freak year and is going to make a career off it.

 

[HoseEmDown]

50 points on the highest scoring team weve seen in nearly a decade. Right...

He'd be a 40 point player on all normal teams aka 3rd line maybe seeing 2PP time. He had one freak year and is going to make a career off it.

Johnson for his career averages 23g and 55p a season. Duchene averages 25g and 60p a season. Johnson has been a 3rd liner up to the 1st and now a 2nd liner while Duchene has been a 1st liner and focal point of his teams offense his whole career. Johnson is locked in for 6 years at a fair 5mil price while Duchene makes more than that now and will even more after next season. Johnson is far from a cap dump and is still a top 6 player.

 

[DictatorTots427]

I dont hate Johnson but he is the opposite of what the Avs are trying to do. We want to get younger and I would rather Jost, Kerfoot, and Kamanev fight for that 2C with Jost likely winning.

In a bubble Johnson for Meloche and a 2nd is very fair value, but because we (or whoever facilitates this trade) are the team making this deal happen, we are doing Tampa a huge favor and an overpayment needs to happen. Thinking that way, Tampa is not giving us enough for Meloche + 2nd.

"Why dont you trade Point to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

"Why dont you trade sergachev to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

Understandable that Tampa fans wouldnt want to move their young stars, but teams dont want whatever is leftover to help Tampa win a Cup and have what would arguably be the best defense ever assembled.

Karlsson
Hedman
Sergachev
McDonagh
Stralman
who cares

That simply isnt fair and anything short of an insane overpayment, I hope teams tell them to kick rocks.

Avs are not fully rebuilt yet. For a rebuild to be successful you need some veterans in there to help the kids along. That's what separates the "successful" rebuilds (Winnipeg, Toronto) from the failed ones (Arizona, Edmonton).

Meloche + 2nd is already underpayment for Johnson. I considered the fact that Colorado are facilitating the trade and changed it accordingly. You're not getting a 2nd line centre for free, I'm not sure how you can delude yourself so far into thinking that. There will be takers for a 2nd line centre on a good contract available for underpayment if Colorado refuses to pay anything.

I hope so. Tampa has this baffling idea they can move Johnson and Callahan (essentially cap dumps even though Johnson is a solid 3rd line player on most teams), Sign EK to 7-8 years, not trade any big name (Kuch, Point, Serg, etc), and not have to take on Ryans contract. It would be the best trade in history if anyone fell for this.

Johnson is not a third line player lmao. Even excluding his 70 point season, he's a consistent 50 point player. Again, Karlsson will not be getting full value considering the circumstances. Ottawa has already asked for star young players (Glass, Heiskanen) and they've been denied. Ottawa can still get a good collection of picks and prospects, but they're not getting anybody on Point or Serg or even Glass' level. Nobody's gonna pay that considering Karlsson is a pending UFA.

 

[not a troll]

I dont hate Johnson but he is the opposite of what the Avs are trying to do. We want to get younger and I would rather Jost, Kerfoot, and Kamanev fight for that 2C with Jost likely winning.

In a bubble Johnson for Meloche and a 2nd is very fair value, but because we (or whoever facilitates this trade) are the team making this deal happen, we are doing Tampa a huge favor and an overpayment needs to happen. Thinking that way, Tampa is not giving us enough for Meloche + 2nd.

"Why dont you trade Point to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

"Why dont you trade sergachev to make it happen?"
"Never" - Tampa fans

Understandable that Tampa fans wouldnt want to move their young stars, but teams dont want whatever is leftover to help Tampa win a Cup and have what would arguably be the best defense ever assembled.

Karlsson
Hedman
Sergachev
McDonagh
Stralman
who cares

That simply isnt fair and anything short of an insane overpayment, I hope teams tell them to kick rocks.

I understand the youth movement mentality but you can't fill out an entire roster with just U25 players. What's just as important is a winning culture and making sure the Avs aren't a playoff bubble team every year or a one-and-done like 2010 and 2014. The top line can't go into next season expected to do all the heavy lifting again. That's not a recipe for success.

Meloche and a 2nd is great value for a player like Johnson. Remember the last time the Avs got a player for that package? It was Boedker for Wood and Bleackley (2nd). I'd much rather have Johnson than Boedker.

Also, you can't fault Tampa for having exceptional drafting, scouting, and asset management.

 

[Rschmitz]

50 points on the highest scoring team weve seen in nearly a decade. Right...

He'd be a 40 point player on all normal teams aka 3rd line maybe seeing 2PP time. He had one freak year and is going to make a career off it.

Your logic makes no sense. The reason the Lightning were the highest scoring team in nearly a decade is because they had Johnson centering the third line. With more ice time and better wingers he'd score more, not the opposite.

 

[Korpse]

No Sergachev, no thanks.

 

[Oddbob]

I feel like all 3 teams say no to this!