#3 - Dylan Strome C

rt

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Thanks for the breakdown, seems like they'd need a larger sample size to reach much of a conclusion. He definitely finished strong last season but it was in garbage time which still has me concerned.
The writer watched the games from the beginning of this year(AHL and NHL) the end of this year (AHL and NHL) and posted video clips that highlighted what he was talking about. It was his ananlysis over time supported with video. Good article.
 

rt

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Also behind a paywall (this is a tiny sample from a huge article about the Coyotes season preview):

“...Dylan Strome who doesn’t have a spot at his natural position with Galchenyuk slotted at centre. He may even see himself in a camp battle for a spot on the wing as Strome isn’t the type of player the team sees fitting on the fourth line and, as it stands now, there isn’t room for him in the top nine unless he outplays someone in camp.

At the moment he’s on the outside looking in, though that’s not a plan I’m personally on board with. The team likes Brendan Perlini and Christian Fischer, but I don’t see a case for them statistically over Strome as they don’t provide nearly the same offensive impact. He has defensive shortcomings and the team is likely worried about his skating, but I’m not sure how much that should matter when he had the team’s second best offensive shot impact (off-setting those defensive issues) and points-per-60 at 5-on-5, the latter of which was a first line rate.

He may not do it by the book, but damnit, he gets results. That he was at a point-per-game rate in Tucson shouldn’t be discounted either, but in any sense it adds some intrigue to the next few weeks in Arizona...”
2018-19 NHL Season Preview: Arizona Coyotes

I think it’s 9 sent sentences, so it should be allowed.
 

Jakey53

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Also behind a paywall (this is a tiny sample from a huge article about the Coyotes season preview):

“...Dylan Strome who doesn’t have a spot at his natural position with Galchenyuk slotted at centre. He may even see himself in a camp battle for a spot on the wing as Strome isn’t the type of player the team sees fitting on the fourth line and, as it stands now, there isn’t room for him in the top nine unless he outplays someone in camp.

At the moment he’s on the outside looking in, though that’s not a plan I’m personally on board with. The team likes Brendan Perlini and Christian Fischer, but I don’t see a case for them statistically over Strome as they don’t provide nearly the same offensive impact. He has defensive shortcomings and the team is likely worried about his skating, but I’m not sure how much that should matter when he had the team’s second best offensive shot impact (off-setting those defensive issues) and points-per-60 at 5-on-5, the latter of which was a first line rate.

He may not do it by the book, but damnit, he gets results. That he was at a point-per-game rate in Tucson shouldn’t be discounted either, but in any sense it adds some intrigue to the next few weeks in Arizona...”
2018-19 NHL Season Preview: Arizona Coyotes

I think it’s 9 sent sentences, so it should be allowed.
It's up to Strome at this point. IF RT gives him a fair shot and Strome falls short we have to move on. It will be hard because the way it looks Hayton is a couple of years away, and if Chucky can't cut it at C we will be in the same boat as last year. We have to hope and pray Strome makes the team.
 
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RemoAZ

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Still don't see a problem with Strome as one of the 4 centers. Worrying about numbering them 1 through 4 in today's NHL is nonsense. Put the best guys out there and play. I'd rather gamble on Strome putting up 40+ points playing a lower amount of minutes than Richardson getting those same minutes. Stepan and Dvo can be our top two defensive matchup guys. We don't need a guy that can't score just so someone can be labeled the 4th line center. If for no other reason, we need to keep Strome to help our shitty PP. Strome, Galchenyuk and Keller on the PP sounds pretty awesome to me. Even better with Fischer in front of the net.
 

Grimes

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Are the journalist who wrote the Strome piece and the season preview the same person? I may just need to subscribe to the Athletic, seems like the best place for hockey insight now.

What about something like this:
Keller-Stepan-Panik
Strome-Gally-Grabner
Perlini-Dvo-Hino
Crouse-Richardson-Fischer

That lets Strome or Galchenyuk slot into the center position depending on matchups, zone starts, etc. If one doesnt work out at C they become the winger for that line. I was thinking of something similar with Dvo and Strome but after the extension and the fact that he is more proven in our system, I think Dvo sticks at C.
 
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cobra427

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Still don't see a problem with Strome as one of the 4 centers. Worrying about numbering them 1 through 4 in today's NHL is nonsense. Put the best guys out there and play. I'd rather gamble on Strome putting up 40+ points playing a lower amount of minutes than Richardson getting those same minutes. Stepan and Dvo can be our top two defensive matchup guys. We don't need a guy that can't score just so someone can be labeled the 4th line center. If for no other reason, we need to keep Strome to help our ****ty PP. Strome, Galchenyuk and Keller on the PP sounds pretty awesome to me. Even better with Fischer in front of the net.
Scoring is only one piece of it. Strome has to be effective, at least decent, when he doesn't ave the puck. He needs to forecheck, back check, be in the right position without the puck on D. In the O zone when we have the puck, Strome will kill it, no doubt about that. But so did Duke:( I hope this is Stromes year.
 

Plub

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Are they using his AHL statistics to argue his place on the NHL team? Or are they using his very short span of decent games?
 

Imaravencawcaw

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As Remo mentioned above, I think the days of numbering lines and the 4th line grinders who don't score are over. As much as we all liked the "best 4th line in hockey" last year I'd take a page out of Vegas' playbook and try to create 4 lines that can all score to some degree, so maybe the Coyotes try something like this:

Panik-Stepan-Keller
Perlini-Chucky-Hino
Grabner-Strome-Fischer
Crouse-Dvorak-Richardson

Stepan's line clearly gets the most ice time, but then I'd split the rest of the minutes evenly over the other 3. Dvo's line probably gets more D zone starts since they'll have 2 centers and are more defensively responsible. Chucky's line gets more O zone starts for obvious reasons. Throw Strome out there anywhere because we need to see if he can play. It's doubtful anything like this happens, but one can dream.
 

Summer Rose

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As Remo mentioned above, I think the days of numbering lines and the 4th line grinders who don't score are over. As much as we all liked the "best 4th line in hockey" last year I'd take a page out of Vegas' playbook and try to create 4 lines that can all score to some degree, so maybe the Coyotes try something like this:

Panik-Stepan-Keller
Perlini-Chucky-Hino
Grabner-Strome-Fischer
Crouse-Dvorak-Richardson

Stepan's line clearly gets the most ice time, but then I'd split the rest of the minutes evenly over the other 3. Dvo's line probably gets more D zone starts since they'll have 2 centers and are more defensively responsible. Chucky's line gets more O zone starts for obvious reasons. Throw Strome out there anywhere because we need to see if he can play. It's doubtful anything like this happens, but one can dream.

This makes way too much sense, so we probably won't even try it.
 

Jakey53

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Still don't see a problem with Strome as one of the 4 centers. Worrying about numbering them 1 through 4 in today's NHL is nonsense. Put the best guys out there and play. I'd rather gamble on Strome putting up 40+ points playing a lower amount of minutes than Richardson getting those same minutes. Stepan and Dvo can be our top two defensive matchup guys. We don't need a guy that can't score just so someone can be labeled the 4th line center. If for no other reason, we need to keep Strome to help our ****ty PP. Strome, Galchenyuk and Keller on the PP sounds pretty awesome to me. Even better with Fischer in front of the net.
I couldn't agree more, but I think if Strome doesn't stand out in the pre season, RT won't play him. I have a feeling that RT likes Richardson more than Strome. I still believe Strome will blossom into a pretty good player for us. I know that I will be in the minority on this but I think he will be a better and more valuable player than DVO.
 
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RemoAZ

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I couldn't agree more, but I think if Strome doesn't stand out in the pre season, RT won't play him. I have a feeling that RT likes Richardson more than Strome. I still believe Strome will blossom into a pretty good player for us. I know that I will be in the minority on this but I think he will be a better and more valuable player than DVO.

I agree.
 

SniperHF

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The Coyotes of yesteryear would never try something like this, but I think Tocchet and Chayka understand the direction the NHL seems to be heading so I'm still holding on to a long shot chance.

They do, but the question is how much will they over-correct if stuff goes wrong?

This is something I've been preaching various times the last 6 months or so. If you take a close look at what Tocchet was doing in the early season last year, it was working offensively.
They had a ton of reasons (mostly in the form of the win column being 0) to make changes. But also the defensive structure of the team was flat out garbage. I do not think this was purely a function of the system, it was exaggerated by both the early season where the defense is always a little behind, Domingue, and a roster full of young forwards.

But Tocchet did his due diligence and made changes to the system; in addition to Chayka trying to help a G (Wedgewood), and waiting for the defense to shape up (which they did, eventually).


What does this have to do with my point on over-correcting and Strome playing on the 4th line?
If you go back to the opener last season the lines were:
Domi - Stepan - Keller
Rieder - Dvorak - Duclair
Perlini - Strome - Crouse
Martinook - Richardson - Fischer

This is by any read of the players we had at the time a pretty forward thinking NHL line set with a mix of speed, offensive firepower, and strategically placed size or defense. The 4th line is kinda limited offensively but again, look at the roster we had to deal with.

But where did they over-correct? Strome was not given much of a chance. I'm sure a lot of people think his time in the AHL helped him, but I'm not really buying it much. He had already dominated, he didn't need to learn how to do that. His skating was good enough, people still complaining about it as of October of last year were on old talking points. He was just cold. It happens. As evidence I offer that when he was called up for his final chance last season where he succeeded, he was actually pretty cold at the AHL level before that with 3 points in 9 games. After a few games up in the NHL he heats up. I think this is mostly coincidence and bad luck; not demonstrative of something clicking with Strome over playing 3 months in the minors.

The second big place they over-corrected was our friends the stickybois. At first it worked sort of. They racked up some wins (this is pre-February's run) but weren't exactly setting the world on fire either. But the team had stabilized and could at least win a regulation game. So that's good. What's bad is the stickybois COULD NOT SCORE. Relative to their icetime their performance offensively was horrible. No line on a successful NHL team plays that many minutes and puts up so few points. The offense on the team was bone dry. Keller had not yet heated back up. Domi hadn't improved yet. Fischer and Perlini had started to enter massive slumps after pretty decent starts. They won on Raanta's Vezina caliber 3 months and prayed their bottom units/D could pot an unlikely goal to put them ahead of the other team.


So if I look at what the team tried to do at the start, it is clear they aren't trying to have a no scoring line in the top 12. It was an understandable reaction to stop the bleeding for a few months. Where they failed was they did not ramp up the offensive system until very late in the season after February's run. Guys like Fischer and Perlini essentially had lost second halves of the season despite the team winning. Once they stabilized things in January, they should have adjusted more quickly to try and get the offense going again.

The offense did get going again but that was mostly on the back of Keller and Stepan and not anything the team was doing sustainably. The end of the season while a huge relief was not really all that successful developmentally for 80% of the roster.

The Coyotes do not have a top tier type of talent they can lean on to carry them into being a playoff team. They need to patiently integrate players like Strome into the lineup at the NHL level.
It's understandable why they didn't do it in November/December. But once it was clear that Raanta and the defensive tweaks(+time) had stabilized things they should have been much more aggressive at pushing the pace. All the underlying numbers offensively even when they were losing showed it was working. Don't go whole hog back into 7 seconds or less style hockey but something closer in conjunction with a capable goalie and a defense not passing to the other team anymore? They'd have probably won even more games then they did in the second half.

Strome can't be given 4 preseason games and a couple meh regular season games and call that an opportunity. That might work for your average mostly physical toolsy center. Strome is not that player. He needs to be in a rhythm. We've seen what he can do when circumstances line up. 10's of games not half a dozen then back to the A with you.
 
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RemoAZ

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Excellent post Sniper. At the time I stated over and over that Tocc and company panicked. Last year wasn't going to amount to anything. Everyone knew that. It should have been used as a development year. Strome should have been given lots of prime offensive minutes, including the PP. The goalie play at the beginning of the year ruined everything. Look at how bad Chicago was with the mess they had in goal and they had several stars on that team. Last year we went from trying to build a contender to striving for mediocrity just like the last decade or so. Hopefully they get back to trying for something better this year and make developing the top young guys the top priority. That's the only way they'll ever be a real contender.
 

Mosby

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The Coyotes do not have a top tier type of talent they can lean on to carry them into being a playoff team.

This is a major concern of mine and I don't know how we're going to acquire it.
 

lanky

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Strome was NHL ready last year. He would have pulled his weight.

AHL time might have served him better in the end. Less pressure while he worked on his issues. Or maybe he would have slaughtered the NHL just like he did the AHL.

Either way, there's no question in my mind that he needs to be in the NHL, as a C, from now til the end of his career.
 

YotesFan47

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Yea I disagree with the whole Strome being ready the first half of the year. I saw him play and his decision making and positioning were not nearly on the same level they were in his 2nd half stint. His hustle was there, he just couldn't think the NHL game and react quickly enough. Maybe the 2nd half success was a byproduct of the changes to the system, but for a player with no NHL resume, I would have sent him down instead of letting him be apart of the bleed too.

I have Stome pegged as a potential late bloomer at this point. I doubt we see his best years until he is in his late 20s/early 30s.
 

SniperHF

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and company panicked

The one thing I sort of disagree with is calling it a panic. What I think they got was complacent after the team stabilized and were too afraid they'd backslide a bit. Coaches, even the most forward thinking ones, like their security blankets. Raanta + the stickybois was Tocchet's and I think they lost sight for a while that they still have a lot of other roster players to worry about. Strome is one thing, but Fischer,Perlini, Dvorak to a lesser extent, Chychrun, Domi at the time all need to be preparing to be part of a team that plays like a proper competitive team. Even when they were winning it was a one line team with a goalie. What they "figured out" wasn't sustainable. It was workable.

One of the reasons I'm not too worried they'll do it again is they made some moves this offseason toward being more sustainable even if it in theory made it harder for Strome to lock down a roster spot.

This is a major concern of mine and I don't know how we're going to acquire it.

Get lucky, that's it.

I've long been worried we do not have the capacity to actually rebuild as a hockey team on this budget without it.
Keller blowing up year 1 is a huge win in the get lucky department. We just need that to happen 2-3 more times unfortunately.
Maybe stumbling on to future Vezina trophy winner Antti Raanta can be another :naughty:

AHL time might have served him better in the end. Less pressure while he worked on his issues.

Yes I don't think Strome's AHL time was unjustifiable, especially in the sense of keeping him away from the trainwreck to avoid making things worse. But I really don't believe it did much for his game other then that.
What he does still need to work on in particular is being less prone to deep slumps. Even in the AHL last year there were a couple times he went dark for a while and he's too talented to do that in the A.

Yea I disagree with the whole Strome being ready the first half of the year. I saw him play and his decision making and positioning were not nearly on the same level they were in his 2nd half stint. His hustle was there, he just couldn't think the NHL game and react quickly enough

It's not so much that I think he was ready, I had almost the exact criticism of him when he was sent down as you just wrote.
I just think it's in his head and the issues compounding when he starts pressing. I don't think he actually improved at that in the AHL. Those same issues happened on two occasions during his time there too where he was pretty invisible. He was just on the cusp of getting hot again when he got called up the third time and did.

He was ready to learn on the job, provided the team wasn't garbage. It was garbage which made all this worse. So instead he had to learn on the job in a slower and lower skilled league costing development time. I think he'd have picked up the NHL game about where he ended the year within a month or two of consistent play. In a development year that's okay.
 

Mosby

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Re: Not having a top talent - My fear is we become the Wild.

Maybe we'll get new investors and can sign Seguin or Duchene next summer :naughty:
 
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RemoAZ

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The one thing I sort of disagree with is calling it a panic. What I think they got was complacent after the team stabilized and were too afraid they'd backslide a bit. Coaches, even the most forward thinking ones, like their security blankets. Raanta + the stickybois was Tocchet's and I think they lost sight for a while that they still have a lot of other roster players to worry about. Strome is one thing, but Fischer,Perlini, Dvorak to a lesser extent, Chychrun, Domi at the time all need to be preparing to be part of a team that plays like a proper competitive team. Even when they were winning it was a one line team with a goalie. What they "figured out" wasn't sustainable. It was workable.

One of the reasons I'm not too worried they'll do it again is they made some moves this offseason toward being more sustainable even if it in theory made it harder for Strome to lock down a roster spot.
I thought sending down Strome and giving minutes to guys like Archibald, Kempe and the normal 4th line players like we did in the past was a total panic move. They came out running and gunning in that first game playing the young guys. They could have tweaked the system and still played the same guys for the season. They didn't.
 
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YotesFan47

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The one thing I sort of disagree with is calling it a panic. What I think they got was complacent after the team stabilized and were too afraid they'd backslide a bit. Coaches, even the most forward thinking ones, like their security blankets. Raanta + the stickybois was Tocchet's and I think they lost sight for a while that they still have a lot of other roster players to worry about. Strome is one thing, but Fischer,Perlini, Dvorak to a lesser extent, Chychrun, Domi at the time all need to be preparing to be part of a team that plays like a proper competitive team. Even when they were winning it was a one line team with a goalie. What they "figured out" wasn't sustainable. It was workable.

One of the reasons I'm not too worried they'll do it again is they made some moves this offseason toward being more sustainable even if it in theory made it harder for Strome to lock down a roster spot.



Get lucky, that's it.

I've long been worried we do not have the capacity to actually rebuild as a hockey team on this budget without it.
Keller blowing up year 1 is a huge win in the get lucky department. We just need that to happen 2-3 more times unfortunately.
Maybe stumbling on to future Vezina trophy winner Antti Raanta can be another :naughty:



Yes I don't think Strome's AHL time was unjustifiable, especially in the sense of keeping him away from the trainwreck to avoid making things worse. But I really don't believe it did much for his game other then that.
What he does still need to work on in particular is being less prone to deep slumps. Even in the AHL last year there were a couple times he went dark for a while and he's too talented to do that in the A.



It's not so much that I think he was ready, I had almost the exact criticism of him when he was sent down as you just wrote.
I just think it's in his head and the issues compounding when he starts pressing. I don't think he actually improved at that in the AHL. Those same issues happened on two occasions during his time there too where he was pretty invisible. He was just on the cusp of getting hot again when he got called up the third time and did.

He was ready to learn on the job, provided the team wasn't garbage. It was garbage which made all this worse. So instead he had to learn on the job in a slower and lower skilled league costing development time. I think he'd have picked up the NHL game about where he ended the year within a month or two of consistent play. In a development year that's okay.
Ah ok, I misunderstood. Even if the team were successful at that time, I could still see him being sent down but what your saying makes sense.

I think where I still differ on this is how Strome is ultimately going to learn the game.

Hes calculated and methodical in his approach, slowing down the play and then ramping things up when hes ready and feels he has the control. The two problems with that for Strome specifically is he doesn't have the foot speed to make up for mistakes, and hes not able to track the NHL game quickly enough.

There are a lot of other NHL players with this same style but they have a different tool box so they attain success quicker.

Strome is going to learn the NHL at a slower pace IMO, but I see a 60-70pt center in the future. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him spend the next 3 years as our 3c while he gets ramped up.
 

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