Value of: 2C to Col.

[Jarey Curry]

Why waste assets? Just draft Hughes, Cozens, or Dach with ottawa's pick.

Trust me.. They gonna!

 

[McSuper]

So Avs want a <26 year old 2nd line center scoring around 60 points but their 5 most valuable pieces are untouchable?

Such is life on HF . Fans never want to part with their talent but they sure want another teams talent .
Having said the above there are some very fair posters on here . Not a lot but a few from each team .

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

MacK’s prime, especially on that gift of a contract is the rush...at least when we have a great line around him, great goalie depth, a strong cadre of blueliners, a high end third line around Soda, and basically everything to contend for a cup except the 2nd that burns teams for giving the Bottle Kids the attention that they require.

The window could be open really soon, so why not start exploring our options to capitalize on it once it is? I don’t think Jost is the piece to move, his value probably isn’t there to be the centerpiece of a blockbuster...and I still really like him as a winger on that second line if we get a stud like Trochek or Drae to anchor it.

Because we aren't really a contender yet (10 games doesn't change that) and we're still exploring our internal options. There's still room for improvement, no doubt, but we should give the youngsters a fair chance before we decide they aren't good enough and we need to look outside the organization. A rookie season + 10 games isn't a fair chance in my book. This thread is essentially window shopping for something we may or may not need in a year or two, depending on how our current guys develop and how contract negotiations and expansion/entry drafts work out. I get the idea behind it, it just seems premature.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Because we aren't really a contender yet (10 games doesn't change that) and we're still exploring our internal options. There's still room for improvement, no doubt, but we should give the youngsters a fair chance before we decide they aren't good enough and we need to look outside the organization. A rookie season + 10 games isn't a fair chance in my book. This thread is essentially window shopping for something we may or may not need in a year or two, depending on how our current guys develop and how contract negotiations and expansion/entry drafts work out. I get the idea behind it, it just seems premature.

It’s not window shopping for something we may or may not need, it’s window shopping for something we 100% need at some point in the near future. We don’t really have any prospects that can take over that 2C role.

Jost’s skating isn’t good enough for him to be an effective top 6 C. Kamenev looks to be a 3rd/4th line guy. Bowers has shot at being a 2C, but probably won’t have the offensive punch.

Our only shot of a 2C is hoping Ottawa gives us a good pick or trading for one. So it makes sense to see what’s available.

*Obviously we could draft one with our pick as well

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Such is life on HF . Fans never want to part with their talent but they sure want another teams talent .
Having said the above there are some very fair posters on here . Not a lot but a few from each team .

I mean, it's not like we're suggesting everything of value is off the table here.


We still have a lot of very valuable(IMO more valuable then a 2C even) pieces that are suggested to be available.

If Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and EJ are untouchable. That still leaves a pair of 1st round picks, Sam Girard, Tyson Jost, Martin Kaut, Connor Timmins, etc. etc. as pieces available.

A number of those pieces probably hold more value then a 2C at this point. Girard and the Ottawa 1st especially.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Such is life on HF . Fans never want to part with their talent but they sure want another teams talent .
Having said the above there are some very fair posters on here . Not a lot but a few from each team .

Cuz Barrie, 2 1sts, Timmins, Kaitlin, Jost, Kerfoot are just all bringing negative value?

 

[Goulet17]

I mean, it's not like we're suggesting everything of value is off the table here.


We still have a lot of very valuable(IMO more valuable then a 2C even) pieces that are suggested to be available.

If Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and EJ are untouchable. That still leaves a pair of 1st round picks, Sam Girard, Tyson Jost, Martin Kaut, Connor Timmins, etc. etc. as pieces available.

A number of those pieces probably hold more value then a 2C at this point. Girard and the Ottawa 1st especially.

I am not sure why the Avs would make Girard available. It seems kind of foolish in my mind.

 

[cgf]

Because we aren't really a contender yet (10 games doesn't change that) and we're still exploring our internal options. There's still room for improvement, no doubt, but we should give the youngsters a fair chance before we decide they aren't good enough and we need to look outside the organization. A rookie season + 10 games isn't a fair chance in my book. This thread is essentially window shopping for something we may or may not need in a year or two, depending on how our current guys develop and how contract negotiations and expansion/entry drafts work out. I get the idea behind it, it just seems premature.

We’re not contenders yet, but give us a 2nd line that makes teams even consider diverting some attention from the top line and we are. We pushed Nashville to the brink without that 2nd line, and since then we’ve improved the goalie depth, Girard took a big step, we have better blue line depth, and we’ll be adding Makar to that.

 

[Cowumbus]

How about PLD & Panarin?

Kerfoot + Kaut + OTT 1st + COL 1st/Timmins <--> PLD + Panarin. Sound good to you? Good.

nah, no thanks.

 

[cgf]

nah, no thanks.

Dang it

 

[Eltuna]

Such is life on HF . Fans never want to part with their talent but they sure want another teams talent .
Having said the above there are some very fair posters on here . Not a lot but a few from each team .

Such is life in real life as well. ROR, Duchene, Turris, McDonagh, Schenn, Karlsson, and Skinner were all players acquired in the last year without giving up a teams (at the time) best or even second best prospects or young players.

 

[gwh]

You think the "obvious choice" is to take the leagues leading scorer and change his position?

Nobody wins the cup with a single line. Having 100 point MacKinnon at 1C and 80-90 point Rantanen at 2C is scary.

Current roster is not and single line is easy to deal with. Look at EDM for example.

 

[cgf]

Nobody wins the cup with a single line. Having 100 point MacKinnon at 1C and 80-90 point Rantanen at 2C is scary.

Current roster is not and single line is easy to deal with. Look at EDM for example.

Fortunately, Colorado has a nifty 2nd year player who has ~50 pts in ~90 career NHL games, a recent top 10 pick winger, & last year's mid-1st round winger in the organization already; an extra 1st round pick in this upcoming FWD-rich draft coming from Ottawa; plenty of cap space this summer; a deep asset pool for trades; and potential soon Tyson Barrie to use as a trade chip.

So there are enough other avenues for the club to assemble a second line that can be scary behind the bottle kids without having to mess with the arguably the best line in hockey or move Mikko to a position he hasn't played consistently since he was 16 (or 17?).

Nevermind that that single line came close to knocking the Preds off in their 1st playoff series together and has dominated the regular season since being put together. So maybe that 1 line isn't that easy to deal with? ;-)

 

[gwh]

Fortunately, Colorado has a nifty 2nd year player who has ~50 pts in ~90 career NHL games, a recent top 10 pick winger, & last year's mid-1st round winger in the organization already; an extra 1st round pick in this upcoming FWD-rich draft coming from Ottawa; plenty of cap space this summer; a deep asset pool for trades; and potential soon Tyson Barrie to use as a trade chip.

So there are enough other avenues for the club to assemble a second line that can be scary behind the bottle kids without having to mess with the arguably the best line in hockey or move Mikko to a position he hasn't played consistently since he was 16 (or 17?).

Nevermind that that single line came close to knocking the Preds off in their 1st playoff series together and has dominated the regular season since being put together. So maybe that 1 line isn't that easy to deal with? ;-)

And how many years you had all this? Every year since 2005? Rantanen was playing center all the way until NHL. The 1st liiga season 2013-14 was an exception. Very similar history to Aho, who "surprised everyone" playing his natural position.

Breaking the line now would be stupid. It will get shut out by the opposition and then you have to break it to make playoffs.

 

[gwh]

Also Rantanen is a career 53% faceoff winner in the NHL as a winger. Why would a career winger be over 50% over 3 seasons?

 

[FerrisRox]

Nobody wins the cup with a single line. Having 100 point MacKinnon at 1C and 80-90 point Rantanen at 2C is scary.

Current roster is not and single line is easy to deal with. Look at EDM for example.

Seriously?

You're doubling down on the idea of taking the leagues leading scorer and changing his position?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Also Rantanen is a career 53% faceoff winner in the NHL as a winger. Why would a career winger be over 50% over 3 seasons?

Off the top of my head... Landeskog, Hoffman and Simmonds are all over 50% career-wise and take a ton of faceoffs as a winger. Let's move Landeskog to center too! Have MacK, Rants and Landy up the middle.

Wingers switch off with centers in some systems fairly frequently due to handedness. Rants and Landy both take draws when a lefty is needed and because MacK is horrid at them.

 

[cgf]

And how many years you had all this? Every year since 2005? Rantanen was playing center all the way until NHL. The 1st liiga season 2013-14 was an exception. Very similar history to Aho, who "surprised everyone" playing his natural position.

Breaking the line now would be stupid. It will get shut out by the opposition and then you have to break it to make playoffs.

Rantanen played on the wing for his senior team in his draft year and played predominantly on the wing in the AHL...with the couple of weeks he was tried at center, being the worst he played at any point that season. He played on the wing for Finland at both WJC and hasn’t played center at all in the NHL. Center was the position he played as a kid because that’s the position youth teams put their best talents, that doesn’t make it his natural position. Winger is the position he plays best.

And how about we break the top line up when someone actually stops it? Didn’t stop us from making the playoffs last year and it isn’t keeping us out of a playoff spot now.

 

[gwh]

Off the top of my head... Landeskog, Hoffman and Simmonds are all over 50% career-wise and take a ton of faceoffs as a winger. Let's move Landeskog to center too! Have MacK, Rants and Landy up the middle.

Wingers switch off with centers in some systems fairly frequently due to handedness. Rants and Landy both take draws when a lefty is needed and because MacK is horrid at them.

Landy is career 49%. Why write garbage into a good discussion? Should i check the rest?

Landy seems to have been 37% total during his 4 total season. My hunch would be that he did not play a lot of center in the earlier leagues.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It’s not window shopping for something we may or may not need, it’s window shopping for something we 100% need at some point in the near future. We don’t really have any prospects that can take over that 2C role.

Jost’s skating isn’t good enough for him to be an effective top 6 C. Kamenev looks to be a 3rd/4th line guy. Bowers has shot at being a 2C, but probably won’t have the offensive punch.

Our only shot of a 2C is hoping Ottawa gives us a good pick or trading for one. So it makes sense to see what’s available.

*Obviously we could draft one with our pick as well

You're right, we will need a better 2nd line in the near future if we want to be contenders. But, I think there are enough potential options already in the system that we'd be much better served in the long run actually giving them an honest chance to prove you wrong, before we start looking outside the organization. With that in mind, I don't think we should be making any moves right now. Maybe this off-season, maybe the 2019-20 TDL, but not right now. If we aren't going to buy anything, it's window shopping.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You're right, we will need a better 2nd line in the near future if we want to be contenders. But, I think there are enough potential options already in the system that we'd be much better served in the long run actually giving them an honest chance to prove you wrong, before we start looking outside the organization. With that in mind, I don't think we should be making any moves right now. Maybe this off-season, maybe the 2019-20 TDL, but not right now. If we aren't going to buy anything, it's window shopping.

Again I never said we need to do it now, but over the next 12 months or so we need to do a lot of assessing of roster and adding where necessary.

 

[gdsmack267]

Brassard, Sprong, 2nd for Tyson Barrie

 

[CobraAcesS]

Brassard, Sprong, 2nd for Tyson Barrie

Barrie + Jost + 1st for Malkin?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why did you trade Duchene then? Trade your pick (Avs pick) to the Sens for Duchene? Or you can trade the Sens 1st back to them but lottery protected?

Not sure there are too many legit top 2 centers available.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Why did you trade Duchene then? Trade your pick (Avs pick) to the Sens for Duchene? Or you can trade the Sens 1st back to them but lottery protected?

Not sure there are too many legit top 2 centers available.

Duchy is better at RW though. Ottawa just doesn't have the depth to use him there.