OT: 2024 Washington Commanders off-season thread: change we can believe in!

[usiel]

Daniels has his pro day in hours... Mayes pro day is on Thursday. We can argue over that soon enough

* I really want to see JDs height and weight. I'm not really buying he's 6'4

Wishful thinking?

 

[Bananas]

6’3.5” and 195 lbs is my guess.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

6’3.5” and 195 lbs is my guess.

6’3.75, 217lbs is my guess….

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

6’3.75, 217lbs is my guess….

If he’s pushing 6’4”, 220 that’ll make things kind of interesting.

 

[ynotcaps]

6’3.75, 217lbs is my guess….

6'3.20865Pi4, 157 lbs -- and still #1 on MY board!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If he’s pushing 6’4”, 220 that’ll make things kind of interesting.

Admittedly wishful thinking on my part, just to make it more interesting…

 

[Ridley Simon]

Yeah, it’s the weight I’m far more interested in, than the height. Anything over 6’3” is great. Please be over 215lbs. Pretty please!

 

[Ridley Simon]

To further some past discussions, we should “rank” our top 4 QB’s. (Or we could all state Williams is #1, and rank the next 3?).

I will start that I firmly believe that ALL FOUR can be good/great QB’s, and can anchor a team for years (and YES, I know that it’s probably impossible for all 4 to be franchise guys).

1. Williams — has the best combo of athleticism, speed, and brain power. Almost a perfect specimen. Only issues are a little short, and the “hero ball” attitude. That can be fixed.

2. McCarthy — to the surprise of no one. His mechanics are the best, he can make all the throws, he is a leader, and he wins. Seems the selfless type as well (unlike Williams, of the 4). I also think they should try and trade down a little bit and get him — and THAT has been beaten to death here.

3. Daniels — I have come around to him. He is the most dynamic of the QB’s, and I think his ceiling is frankly the highest. That said, I’m worried about his frame, and about only putting up ONE truly gaudy season. However, he’s so tantalizing.

4. Maye — I still really really like Maye. But I do see his flaws, and while I fully believe he will be a terrific QB, it may truly take a while. He has the strongest arm, IMO, and I think he’s the safest of the remaining 3, and may very well end up being the best. But right now, I’ve got him 4th best overall.

What about you all!? I generally know everyone’s top choice, but after that?

 

[max21]

Daniel’s pro day today. To no surprise he’s only throwing

 

[max21]

Maye is still the QB I really hope they take. Bro is 6’4” 220. I love Daniel’s footwork and I don’t think it’s a big deal he didn’t run the 40 because everyone knows he has elite QB speed. Butttt he’s too small. Maye makes throws anywhere on the field, please god take him.

 

[EroCaps]

Daniels will bust. If they take him over Maye you might as well start the clock on Dan Quinn and Kliff Kingsbury.

 

[ynotcaps]

To further some past discussions, we should “rank” our top 4 QB’s. (Or we could all state Williams is #1, and rank the next 3?).

I will start that I firmly believe that ALL FOUR can be good/great QB’s, and can anchor a team for years (and YES, I know that it’s probably impossible for all 4 to be franchise guys).

1. Williams — has the best combo of athleticism, speed, and brain power. Almost a perfect specimen. Only issues are a little short, and the “hero ball” attitude. That can be fixed.

2. McCarthy — to the surprise of no one. His mechanics are the best, he can make all the throws, he is a leader, and he wins. Seems the selfless type as well (unlike Williams, of the 4). I also think they should try and trade down a little bit and get him — and THAT has been beaten to death here.

3. Daniels — I have come around to him. He is the most dynamic of the QB’s, and I think his ceiling is frankly the highest. That said, I’m worried about his frame, and about only putting up ONE truly gaudy season. However, he’s so tantalizing.

4. Maye — I still really really like Maye. But I do see his flaws, and while I fully believe he will be a terrific QB, it may truly take a while. He has the strongest arm, IMO, and I think he’s the safest of the remaining 3, and may very well end up being the best. But right now, I’ve got him 4th best overall.

What about you all!? I generally know everyone’s top choice, but after that?

I go

1) CW: Ungodly talent, I think the dings he's getting are largely the inevitable pendulum swing against a gut who's been anointed for so long. The one thing I do worry about (OK, besides his dad) is if he can play within structure consistently -- it's great to be able to make the Superman play when you need to, but he seems to make himself "need" to too often.

2) JD: All the tools, the most experienced of the top 4, and in spite of frame and style, only "injury" was getting knocked out of one game (temporarily) on a chin shot. I get the concerns about his frame -- I have them too -- but he seems like a rubber band. He bounces and pops back up. He's like the drunk that is the only one to walk away from a car crash. (Though in the second half of last season, he clearly started being smarter about getting down/out of bounds.)

3) JJM: In my mind the safest bet/least likely to bust. But the thing that sticks for me is a scout/coach/somebody who said "we know you can with JJM, but we don't know if you can win because of JJM" -- he's great in a 70s-90's style run-heavy offense, but the NFL is now a passing league and he hasn't gotten to show that he can roll that way.

4) DM: Tremendous size and arm, but too many former QBs are worried about his inexplicable inconsistency/easy misses that show up in every game. And while the QB doesn't win or lose any game on his own, his worst performances come against the toughest teams he faces -- that's not true of any of the other top guys.

Daniels will bust. If they take him over Maye you might as well start the clock on Dan Quinn and Kliff Kingsbury.

It's the exact opposite. There, now we're even -- neither of knows the future, so both of us can quit stating absolutes.

 

[kicksavedave]

To further some past discussions, we should “rank” our top 4 QB’s. (Or we could all state Williams is #1, and rank the next 3?).

What about you all!? I generally know everyone’s top choice, but after that?

1. Jayden Daniels - He improved the most over his career, he's ready to start day 1, his game will give DC's fits planning for his dual threat aspect, and I think his injury concern is overblown - 55 NCAA starts, 26 in the SEC, and he missed about 1/4 of one game in the concussion protocol after a late hit. Plays within the system and reads defenses. Perfect deep ball placement. Lowest turnover worthy play % among the top 4 (good decisions and accuracy)

2. Caleb Williams - Physically the most talented QB in years, but needs a mountain of coaching to be NFL ready. Didn't improve his draft year which is a long standing indicator of lack of NFL success. Off field issues around his dad, and his maturity questions present risk at this high of a pick. Highest upside of the 4, but I have the most doubt he hits his peak.

3. Drake Maye - Terrific NFL measurements and therefore potential, but significant concerns about his readiness on day 1. If his flaws are not corrected, he'll be a bust. Fundamental breakdowns lead to head scratching throws. Can make all the throws, but so can JD and CW, so not a real differentiator. Good legs, but not as elusive as JD and CW.

4. Michael Penix - You were expecting JJ here, but he's a wild card for me - too inexperienced and college QBs with limited experience almost never succeed in the NFL. Penix has experience and all the other tools you want - old injury history knocks him down but if healthy, I think he makes the better pro QB. JJ is a mystery, its impossible to tell how much of his success was because of the team always being ahead and running the ball so well.

5. JJ. I guess he has potential but he very well could just be Mac Jones too.

Daniels will bust. If they take him over Maye you might as well start the clock on Dan Quinn and Kliff Kingsbury.

I'll take that bet. Avatars?

 

[Jags]

I love Daniel’s footwork and I don’t think it’s a big deal he didn’t run the 40 because everyone knows he has elite QB speed.

If he gets weighed but doesn't run you can't trust the weight. Any idiot can drink a ton of water to put on a bunch of pounds quickly -- you just wouldn't want to measure speed while you're carrying that weight, hence not running.

If he only throws then he's the only option that's hiding important information and I don't like that.

This'll be interesting.

 

[max21]

He weighed at 210, def some liquids. My point was him running the 40 imo doesn’t matter, he’s fast asf for a qb.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I’m torn…..but….

1. CW
2. JD
3. DM
4.JJM


I feel like JD will be ready pretty fast but DM might end up being the best one eventually. I’d truly be fine with anyone, just don’t miss. I would not be surprised if they took DM and slow cooked him, getting another high’ish pick next year to add more to the core, but that also likely means suffering through some MM next year…

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Daniels will bust. If they take him over Maye you might as well start the clock on Dan Quinn and Kliff Kingsbury.

Ironic considering that quote from a league exec that said take Maye, but you probably get fired before he’s fully cooked….

 

[kicksavedave]

Ironic considering that quote from a league exec that said take Maye, but you probably get fired before he’s fully cooked….

EroCaps knows more than NFL QB Coaches, dontchya know.

He weighed at 210, def some liquids. My point was him running the 40 imo doesn’t matter, he’s fast asf for a qb.

He was 205 at the start of the season. Its almost April. There's no reason he can't have gained 5 lbs the right way in 7 months. So no, not "def some liquids" at all.

Reminder, he was 175 as a freshman 5 years ago, so he put on ~7 lbs per year since then. It very normal.

 

[kicksavedave]

BTW, Drake Maye's combine measurement was 6'4" (3/8) and only 223, so there isn't much separation between their actual bulk.

 

[EroCaps]

1. Jayden Daniels - He improved the most over his career, he's ready to start day 1, his game will give DC's fits planning for his dual threat aspect, and I think his injury concern is overblown - 55 NCAA starts, 26 in the SEC, and he missed about 1/4 of one game in the concussion protocol after a late hit. Plays within the system and reads defenses. Perfect deep ball placement. Lowest turnover worthy play % among the top 4 (good decisions and accuracy)

2. Caleb Williams - Physically the most talented QB in years, but needs a mountain of coaching to be NFL ready. Didn't improve his draft year which is a long standing indicator of lack of NFL success. Off field issues around his dad, and his maturity questions present risk at this high of a pick. Highest upside of the 4, but I have the most doubt he hits his peak.

3. Drake Maye - Terrific NFL measurements and therefore potential, but significant concerns about his readiness on day 1. If his flaws are not corrected, he'll be a bust. Fundamental breakdowns lead to head scratching throws. Can make all the throws, but so can JD and CW, so not a real differentiator. Good legs, but not as elusive as JD and CW.

4. Michael Penix - You were expecting JJ here, but he's a wild card for me - too inexperienced and college QBs with limited experience almost never succeed in the NFL. Penix has experience and all the other tools you want - old injury history knocks him down but if healthy, I think he makes the better pro QB. JJ is a mystery, its impossible to tell how much of his success was because of the team always being ahead and running the ball so well.

5. JJ. I guess he has potential but he very well could just be Mac Jones too.



I'll take that bet. Avatars?

“Concerns about his readiness Day 1” is a laughable and telling red flag.

Virtually every elite QB needed a year or two to develop. Stroud was the rare exception.

You don’t draft a franchise QB out of desperation. Total Dan Snyder move. Shows lack of player development, delayed gratification, and straight up loser mentality.

The fact that a lot of these analysts picking Daniels admit that Maye has higher long term potential shows the inherent flaws in their thinking. They want to be right next year not in 5 years.

 

[ynotcaps]

I remember when I put on only 7 lbs. a year. Good times...

 

[kicksavedave]

“Concerns about his readiness Day 1” is a laughable and telling red flag.

Virtually every elite QB needed a year or two to develop. Stroud was the rare exception.

You don’t draft a franchise QB out of desperation. Total Dan Snyder move. Shows lack of player development, delayed gratification, and straight up loser mentality.

The fact that a lot of these analysts picking Daniels admit that Maye has higher long term potential shows the inherent flaws in their thinking. They want to be right next year not in 5 years.

Only some of these analysts say he has the higher long term potential. Some of them also think he has the higher bust probability. Its too easy to pick only those that agree with us to use as the definitive statement.

You draft the QB who you think will be the best pro QB, period. If that's in year one or year 4 says something about the QB and the effort and probability of them ever achieving their potential. One QB, we know can improve year over year. The other (2 actually), we only can hope he does, because we've never really seen it.

 

[Ridley Simon]

BTW, Drake Maye's combine measurement was 6'4" (3/8) and only 223, so there isn't much separation between their actual bulk.

Well, 13lbs isn’t nothing. It IS separation. Y your own metrics, that’s 2yrs of growth/weight gain.

It’s not bad news. But it sure ain’t good news either.

 

[max21]

EroCaps knows more than NFL QB Coaches, dontchya know.



He was 205 at the start of the season. Its almost April. There's no reason he can't have gained 5 lbs the right way in 7 months. So no, not "def some liquids" at all.

Reminder, he was 175 as a freshman 5 years ago, so he put on ~7 lbs per year since then. It very normal.

If he was 205 during the season he wouldn’t have refused to be weighed at the Combine, it’s an inflated number. He’ll lose 10 lbs by tomorrow. Either way I think the weight/speed is all relative. He’s a tall fast skinny frame QB. I think Maye still is a better prospect

 

[kicksavedave]

If he was 205 during the season he wouldn’t have refused to be weighed at the Combine, it’s an inflated number. He’ll lose 10 lbs by tomorrow. Either way I think the weight/speed is all relative. He’s a tall fast skinny frame QB. I think Maye still is a better prospect

At this point you're just making up things to support your view. He gained 5 lbs from September but he'll lose 10 lbs tomorrow? Come on man!

Well, 13lbs isn’t nothing. It IS separation. Y your own metrics, that’s 2yrs of growth/weight gain.

It’s not bad news. But it sure ain’t good news either.

13 lbs and one inch (plus?) the actual bulk difference is not zero, but its not massive like it was when people thought JD was 205 and DM was 230. 13 lbs is not the 25 lbs people originally thought.