WJC: 2023 Team USA Roster Talk
- Thread starter Jaykay
- Start date
SNHU Arena (Manchester) & Whittemore Center (Durham)!
I'd settle for Boston...
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
Haven't really seen much from any Canadian forward other than Bedard. But his goal gave Canada some life.
Keep up the face off wins. Some careless turnovers last half of the period. Other than that pretty pleased overall.
Keep up the face off wins. Some careless turnovers last half of the period. Other than that pretty pleased overall.
Last edited:
US so good all over the ice, except for being incredibly careless in coverage near the defensive crease. The lack of effort on top of their own goal and only on top of their own goal is the reason they're behind...
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
Canadian fans were howling about the bad defensive coverage was after the 1st two US goals. Now USA doing the same thing. No one backchecking.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
My problem with the call is if you're going 'by the book' and any subtle contact in the crease is an automatic interference than you have to go 'by the book' that any subtle push of a player into the crease negates interference. The refs had it both ways in this instance and that's problematic...
However, USA has only itself to blame for that last period. Peart in coverage on the second Canadian goal and Boucher with an unforgivable back check on the third..
Last edited:
To be honest - although the second disallowed goal is probably the right call - I don't like that overturn either. If you didn't blow the whistle on the ice than the player has every right to poke it in the net. Not at all a fan of the ability to review whether you should have blown the whistle or not...
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
My post was after the 1st period. Captain Obvious Roy and Stankoveen were good the rest of the way.
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Score doesn't reflect the game, was hard fought, goaltending probably the difference. You guys should be favourites next year with a strong returning group.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
One thing that bothered me was USA playing man to man off the DZone draw. Numerous times the defensmen is chasing their winger out past the circle and this is extremely confusing for the forwards and obviously didn't work in front.
Zero Pucks Given
American Hero
I’ve taught my kids (and every player I’ve ever coached) that we don’t bitch about calls….we play through and if we lose it almost certainly wasn’t the refs fault. That said, I’m having trouble w this.
William H Bonney
Registered User
Pretty tough to beat both the referees and the reigning champions who returned 8 players from 4 months ago and have a more veteran team.
The scoreboard was not reflective of that game at all. Not that it's a consolation for the team but that was at worst an evenly played game for the team. But a game they likely feel they should have won sans the refs and if they had minimized some of the really poor line matching / defensive coverage that plagued them in the 2nd.
A few issues plagued the team tonight beyond the refs.
The US got outcoached, a running theme for USAH. In a game where they had last change, they put the Peart - Ufko pair out against the Bedard line ahead of numerous face-offs, and it cost them 3 goals. The team didn't have the ideal balanced defensive pair you'd want against that line as they've had in other tournaments. But Behrens - Hughes pair is your best pairing, even if flawed, and you ride that pairing. Peart has been bad all tournament and Ufko was not much better, despite Starman and Nelson blowing their loads over his 5 assists against Germany. I'm wholly unsurprised they gave up 3 when they had that matchup, even with them only sporadically getting the assignment. In a game where Bedard was quiet (despite the 2 points), barely had the puck, and didn't generate much offense, the poor matchup decisions helped gift that line 3 goals nonetheless.
They lost too many key face-offs. The poor line matching with the last change contributed and they gave up multiple goals directly off face-offs.
They lost their way a bit on the offensive approach they came out with during the opening 10. They were intentional and direct with the puck to start - getting the puck to the Canadian goal and crashing it with authority (see Stramel's quick shot and Connors crashing for the goal). They didn't completely get away from this but it was less consistent.
Milic outplayed Augustine. Trey was fine but he was not making saves he shouldn't for his team like Milic was. Being 19 instead of 17 is a huge advantage.
There were some defensive lapses that weren't the result of pressure, just too many offensive-minded puck movers making poor decisions under limited, if any, duress. See Ufko's nonchalance on the Bedard goal in a situation that's an easy, routine stick tie-up, Mittelstadt vacating the backdoor to try to cover a guy already being collapsed on by 2 US forwards on the Fantilli goal, or Peart vacating the left defensive dot to wander to the slot, letting Clarke walk right to an unimpeded shot on Augustine, and even when Peart ended up out of position on the right side of the crease, he just stood there and didn't tie up Stankoven, instead giving him an easy tap in. Milic was huge for Canada but our defense made it too easy for Canada on a lot of their goals in a way Canada's defense didn't for us.
Coaches never deviated from their forward lines. Generating offensive chances wasn't an issue tonight and they carried more of the play for sure, but when you have huge momentum shifts (going up 2, going down 1, 2 of your goals overturned), you need to coach with urgency and agility to keep guys' emotions going. And even if you're generating the chances, you still need to score - chances don't count. Shorten your bench, and mix up your lines. Instead, we kept rolling 4 lines, highlighted by Sam Lipkin taking another penalty in one of his few shifts.
Even if those goals count, it's obviously no guarantee they win. But it was too much to overcome. The most disappointing part (other than another IIHF game where the refs make themselves the center of it all) was the fact that they got the best possible start and blew it. They were all over Canada, went up 2-0, silenced the crowd, and had them hanging on for dear life. And then some poor coaching decisions and some defensive lapses, and they lost momentum, let the crowd into it, and couldn't recover from that and the overturned goals. A disappointing way to lose the semis, but a somewhat fitting way for it to happen given how unevenly they've played all tournament.
Whether true or not, if I'm the coaching staff, you make the team believe it's them against everyone else, including the IIHF and the refs, for the bronze medal game. It'd be easy for the team to be demoralized and come out flat tomorrow. And doing so is a USAH special, although not as often in the WJC as it is in senior tournaments. Make the team believe the IIHF / refs don't want them to medal and rally them around doing so to get back at those tilting the scales against them. And you talk to the team about their opportunity to exact some revenge against a Sweden team, who like the US has a ton of players from the 2022 U18 tournament on their team, and who beat the US for gold in that tournament in a game the US thoroughly dominated.
The scoreboard was not reflective of that game at all. Not that it's a consolation for the team but that was at worst an evenly played game for the team. But a game they likely feel they should have won sans the refs and if they had minimized some of the really poor line matching / defensive coverage that plagued them in the 2nd.
A few issues plagued the team tonight beyond the refs.
The US got outcoached, a running theme for USAH. In a game where they had last change, they put the Peart - Ufko pair out against the Bedard line ahead of numerous face-offs, and it cost them 3 goals. The team didn't have the ideal balanced defensive pair you'd want against that line as they've had in other tournaments. But Behrens - Hughes pair is your best pairing, even if flawed, and you ride that pairing. Peart has been bad all tournament and Ufko was not much better, despite Starman and Nelson blowing their loads over his 5 assists against Germany. I'm wholly unsurprised they gave up 3 when they had that matchup, even with them only sporadically getting the assignment. In a game where Bedard was quiet (despite the 2 points), barely had the puck, and didn't generate much offense, the poor matchup decisions helped gift that line 3 goals nonetheless.
They lost too many key face-offs. The poor line matching with the last change contributed and they gave up multiple goals directly off face-offs.
They lost their way a bit on the offensive approach they came out with during the opening 10. They were intentional and direct with the puck to start - getting the puck to the Canadian goal and crashing it with authority (see Stramel's quick shot and Connors crashing for the goal). They didn't completely get away from this but it was less consistent.
Milic outplayed Augustine. Trey was fine but he was not making saves he shouldn't for his team like Milic was. Being 19 instead of 17 is a huge advantage.
There were some defensive lapses that weren't the result of pressure, just too many offensive-minded puck movers making poor decisions under limited, if any, duress. See Ufko's nonchalance on the Bedard goal in a situation that's an easy, routine stick tie-up, Mittelstadt vacating the backdoor to try to cover a guy already being collapsed on by 2 US forwards on the Fantilli goal, or Peart vacating the left defensive dot to wander to the slot, letting Clarke walk right to an unimpeded shot on Augustine, and even when Peart ended up out of position on the right side of the crease, he just stood there and didn't tie up Stankoven, instead giving him an easy tap in. Milic was huge for Canada but our defense made it too easy for Canada on a lot of their goals in a way Canada's defense didn't for us.
Coaches never deviated from their forward lines. Generating offensive chances wasn't an issue tonight and they carried more of the play for sure, but when you have huge momentum shifts (going up 2, going down 1, 2 of your goals overturned), you need to coach with urgency and agility to keep guys' emotions going. And even if you're generating the chances, you still need to score - chances don't count. Shorten your bench, and mix up your lines. Instead, we kept rolling 4 lines, highlighted by Sam Lipkin taking another penalty in one of his few shifts.
Even if those goals count, it's obviously no guarantee they win. But it was too much to overcome. The most disappointing part (other than another IIHF game where the refs make themselves the center of it all) was the fact that they got the best possible start and blew it. They were all over Canada, went up 2-0, silenced the crowd, and had them hanging on for dear life. And then some poor coaching decisions and some defensive lapses, and they lost momentum, let the crowd into it, and couldn't recover from that and the overturned goals. A disappointing way to lose the semis, but a somewhat fitting way for it to happen given how unevenly they've played all tournament.
Whether true or not, if I'm the coaching staff, you make the team believe it's them against everyone else, including the IIHF and the refs, for the bronze medal game. It'd be easy for the team to be demoralized and come out flat tomorrow. And doing so is a USAH special, although not as often in the WJC as it is in senior tournaments. Make the team believe the IIHF / refs don't want them to medal and rally them around doing so to get back at those tilting the scales against them. And you talk to the team about their opportunity to exact some revenge against a Sweden team, who like the US has a ton of players from the 2022 U18 tournament on their team, and who beat the US for gold in that tournament in a game the US thoroughly dominated.
Last edited:
I agree w just about everything you wrote. I’d like to consider the game analytically….but right now OI’m stuck on the fact we weren’t allowed a chance.
tabness
be a playa
- Apr 4, 2014
- 2,006
- 3,540
some games the refs are just gonna screw you over but nobody to blame for the loss but the team itself they had Canada at the start and then played so sloppy defense
aside from the Canadian goalie being sharp the rest of Canada looked so beatable too, no real domination from Bedard
aside from the Canadian goalie being sharp the rest of Canada looked so beatable too, no real domination from Bedard
I’d like to agree. and we certainly didn’t play perfectly. But I can think of a few people who share the blame.
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
While I agree the first disallowed goal should have counted, USA buried only a fraction of their chances. That is the reason they lost. They got puck lucked.
William H Bonney
Registered User
I definitely agree the US team will be having some nightmares about their lack of finishing in the game. Hughes hit the post with a wide-open net in the 1st, Snuggerud, Lucius, and Gauthier couldn't bury any of the dozen-plus prime chances they had, etc. Milic certainly deserves a ton of credit though as he made a litany of fantastic saves, many of which would have been goals if he wasn't a good goalie on top of his game.
Unsurprisingly, Ill be less critical of the coaches following this performance - but I would agree with Bonney in one key area. When the US scored the opening goals the first thing that came to mind was looking at the bench to see how the coaches responded. With such young athletes I would have immediately stressed to them the importance of keeping after it, sticking with what was working so well, and impressing upon them the NEED to not letting up one inch. I didn't see that and that's my minor critique of the coaching performance...
That said, I think today's loss boils down to two factors.
First, the reality of a single elimination tournament. In a game where the US carried much of the play and generally played very well, they lost due to a myriad of factors that can pop up and get you in a short sample, single elimination tournament. Milic was great. The refereeing went against them. A few bounces went against them. The home crowd was against them.
I would feel real good about their overall performance if it was an opening night loss in a seven-game series. Unfortunately, as it relates to facing Canada there is no tomorrow. Such is life at the WJC when you get to this point of the tournament and every team is a good team.
Second, and most disappointing, I think the US beat themselves with a few dismal efforts in the most important moments at the most important places on the ice. Individuals were lackadaisical in the back check and in front of their own net, or casual on clears at the wrong times. As players, they know better and should have been better. Canada made them pay. Its harder still to stomach when those few moments of poor effort came in a game where the overall effort was so excellent, but it is what it is...
I'd love to see them bounce back and win bronze, but I have to admit even as a fan I'm less invested already. I wanted to see them beat Canada and I wanted to see them win gold.
Generally speaking, Im pretty pleased with how they performed at this tournament. They gave themselves a chance, they just came up a bit short. Should be a real good group for next winter and I'm already looking forward to it...
That said, I think today's loss boils down to two factors.
First, the reality of a single elimination tournament. In a game where the US carried much of the play and generally played very well, they lost due to a myriad of factors that can pop up and get you in a short sample, single elimination tournament. Milic was great. The refereeing went against them. A few bounces went against them. The home crowd was against them.
I would feel real good about their overall performance if it was an opening night loss in a seven-game series. Unfortunately, as it relates to facing Canada there is no tomorrow. Such is life at the WJC when you get to this point of the tournament and every team is a good team.
Second, and most disappointing, I think the US beat themselves with a few dismal efforts in the most important moments at the most important places on the ice. Individuals were lackadaisical in the back check and in front of their own net, or casual on clears at the wrong times. As players, they know better and should have been better. Canada made them pay. Its harder still to stomach when those few moments of poor effort came in a game where the overall effort was so excellent, but it is what it is...
I'd love to see them bounce back and win bronze, but I have to admit even as a fan I'm less invested already. I wanted to see them beat Canada and I wanted to see them win gold.
Generally speaking, Im pretty pleased with how they performed at this tournament. They gave themselves a chance, they just came up a bit short. Should be a real good group for next winter and I'm already looking forward to it...
Last edited:
donjohnson
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2013
- 286
- 258
Does anyone know why they put Mbereko in for the last two minutes? I've seen thousands of games in my life and I've never seen a team do that. It was like putting in the walk-ons in for the last few seconds of a college basketball game only Mbereko has plenty of playing experience. Very strange.
Canada had too much skill. Top end skill was higher and bottom of the lineup was higher skilled as well.
Usa played well, and Milic was unreal. But just too much skill.
Usa played well, and Milic was unreal. But just too much skill.
