WJC: 2023 Team USA Roster Talk

William H Bonney

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Feb 27, 2002
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Colorado
Thought's on cooley's play last night?

I thought he played well. He limited the over handling of the puck and trying to attack multiple players on his own, which he can do all victim to, and he was our hardest working forward once again. He didn't have a ton of scoring chances himself but he scored and he set up his linemates a bunch but Gauthier and Snuggerud were snake bitten all game.
 

Wildabeast

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Jan 28, 2022
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I thought he played well. He limited the over handling of the puck and trying to attack multiple players on his own, which he can do all victim to, and he was our hardest working forward once again. He didn't have a ton of scoring chances himself but he scored and he set up his linemates a bunch but Gauthier and Snuggerud were snake bitten all game.
Thanks for your input, appreciate it.
 
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95snipes

Registered User
Dec 11, 2019
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Some thoughts as they came to mind

-It was surprising at the time when Lucius turned pro given all of the time he missed and the fact that he wasn't exactly dominating the NCAA level. Seems like hindsight hasn't made that decision look any better. My biggest disappointment of the tournament for the Americans.

-I made a post previously, but I would have had Gauthier as the second line center. He was marginalized in his role compared to what he's capable of and USA was desperate for secondary scoring.

-Snuggerud couldn't buy a goal against Canada. He's a great goal scorer, but Milic had his number last night.

-I'm not Cooley's biggest supporter, but thought he stepped up to the challenge and played excellent last night against Canada. I don't see a star here, but he'll be a good piece for Arizona. Skilled and doesn't back down from the fight.

-Frank Nazar was sorely missed all tournament.

-I'm not a Gavin Brindley fan at all, and don't see a very effective NHLer there, but he played a great game against Canada.

-Luke Hughes was horrible against Canada. I like him a lot, but his faults were on full display last night.

-The first no goal was BS. The second one was the correct call, but basically deflated USA after coming out flying in the 3rd. Tough loss, but I do think Canada was the better team this year.

-Next year's team should be the favorites IMO.
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,121
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Some thoughts as they came to mind

-It was surprising at the time when Lucius turned pro given all of the time he missed and the fact that he wasn't exactly dominating the NCAA level. Seems like hindsight hasn't made that decision look any better. My biggest disappointment of the tournament for the Americans.

-I made a post previously, but I would have had Gauthier as the second line center. He was marginalized in his role compared to what he's capable of and USA was desperate for secondary scoring.

-Snuggerud couldn't buy a goal against Canada. He's a great goal scorer, but Milic had his number last night.

-I'm not Cooley's biggest supporter, but thought he stepped up to the challenge and played excellent last night against Canada. I don't see a star here, but he'll be a good piece for Arizona. Skilled and doesn't back down from the fight.

-Frank Nazar was sorely missed all tournament.

-I'm not a Gavin Brindley fan at all, and don't see a very effective NHLer there, but he played a great game against Canada.

-Luke Hughes was horrible against Canada. I like him a lot, but his faults were on full display last night.

-The first no goal was BS. The second one was the correct call, but basically deflated USA after coming out flying in the 3rd. Tough loss, but I do think Canada was the better team this year.

-Next year's team should be the favorites IMO.
I think these are all fair assessments. Coaching and game management were negatives for me as well but we're used to that as fans of USA Hockey. Another critique is I think it's clear they leaned in too heavily on the offensive d-man composition of the blueline.

Surprised no one mentioning Cooley’s antics. A minute in and he’s taunting the crowd, acting as if they won in OT. The win felt so good because of that. Canada definitely fed off that though it took half a period. What a clown move.
Be honest. If that was Bedard you would be high fiving yourself.
 

novisor

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Feb 6, 2012
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I think these are all fair assessments. Coaching and game management were negatives for me as well but we're used to that as fans of USA Hockey. Another critique is I think it's clear they leaned in too heavily on the offensive d-man composition of the blueline.


Be honest. If that was Bedard you would be high fiving yourself.
Nah. I also don’t think Bedard is stupid enough to do something like that. Guarantee you Cooley is going to be looking back and cringing thinking about it.
 

Dominance

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Pretty tough to beat both the referees and the reigning champions who returned 8 players from 4 months ago and have a more veteran team.

The scoreboard was not reflective of that game at all. Not that it's a consolation for the team but that was at worst an evenly played game for the team. But a game they likely feel they should have won sans the refs and if they had minimized some of the really poor line matching / defensive coverage that plagued them in the 2nd.

A few issues plagued the team tonight beyond the refs.

The US got outcoached, a running theme for USAH. In a game where they had last change, they put the Peart - Ufko pair out against the Bedard line ahead of numerous face-offs, and it cost them 3 goals. The team didn't have the ideal balanced defensive pair you'd want against that line as they've had in other tournaments. But Behrens - Hughes pair is your best pairing, even if flawed, and you ride that pairing. Peart has been bad all tournament and Ufko was not much better, despite Starman and Nelson blowing their loads over his 5 assists against Germany. I'm wholly unsurprised they gave up 3 when they had that matchup, even with them only sporadically getting the assignment. In a game where Bedard was quiet (despite the 2 points), barely had the puck, and didn't generate much offense, the poor matchup decisions helped gift that line 3 goals nonetheless.

They lost too many key face-offs. The poor line matching with the last change contributed and they gave up multiple goals directly off face-offs.

They lost their way a bit on the offensive approach they came out with during the opening 10. They were intentional and direct with the puck to start - getting the puck to the Canadian goal and crashing it with authority (see Stramel's quick shot and Connors crashing for the goal). They didn't completely get away from this but it was less consistent.

Milic outplayed Augustine. Trey was fine but he was not making saves he shouldn't for his team like Milic was. Being 19 instead of 17 is a huge advantage.

There were some defensive lapses that weren't the result of pressure, just too many offensive-minded puck movers making poor decisions under limited, if any, duress. See Ufko's nonchalance on the Bedard goal in a situation that's an easy, routine stick tie-up, Mittelstadt vacating the backdoor to try to cover a guy already being collapsed on by 2 US forwards on the Fantilli goal, or Peart vacating the left defensive dot to wander to the slot, letting Clarke walk right to an unimpeded shot on Augustine, and even when Peart ended up out of position on the right side of the crease, he just stood there and didn't tie up Stankoven, instead giving him an easy tap in. Milic was huge for Canada but our defense made it too easy for Canada on a lot of their goals in a way Canada's defense didn't for us.

Coaches never deviated from their forward lines. Generating offensive chances wasn't an issue tonight and they carried more of the play for sure, but when you have huge momentum shifts (going up 2, going down 1, 2 of your goals overturned), you need to coach with urgency and agility to keep guys' emotions going. And even if you're generating the chances, you still need to score - chances don't count. Shorten your bench, and mix up your lines. Instead, we kept rolling 4 lines, highlighted by Sam Lipkin taking another penalty in one of his few shifts.

Even if those goals count, it's obviously no guarantee they win. But it was too much to overcome. The most disappointing part (other than another IIHF game where the refs make themselves the center of it all) was the fact that they got the best possible start and blew it. They were all over Canada, went up 2-0, silenced the crowd, and had them hanging on for dear life. And then some poor coaching decisions and some defensive lapses, and they lost momentum, let the crowd into it, and couldn't recover from that and the overturned goals. A disappointing way to lose the semis, but a somewhat fitting way for it to happen given how unevenly they've played all tournament.

Whether true or not, if I'm the coaching staff, you make the team believe it's them against everyone else, including the IIHF and the refs, for the bronze medal game. It'd be easy for the team to be demoralized and come out flat tomorrow. And doing so is a USAH special, although not as often in the WJC as it is in senior tournaments. Make the team believe the IIHF / refs don't want them to medal and rally them around doing so to get back at those tilting the scales against them. And you talk to the team about their opportunity to exact some revenge against a Sweden team, who like the US has a ton of players from the 2022 U18 tournament on their team, and who beat the US for gold in that tournament in a game the US thoroughly dominated.
The 6-2 score line was not indicative of the game, but my God this is so disingenuous. Anything but giving credit to Canada, who basically everyone agreed was the favourite going in to the tournament…

Pointing to the refs is ludicrous. Most including myself disagree with the first disallowed goal on principle, but that is textbook goalie interference by the international standards. It wasn’t a coin flip. That would be called that way every single time. Milic was pushing across and his pad clearly would have been there to stop the puck if the USA player’s backside did not stop him short. As for the second disallowed goal, that should not even be mentioned. Nobody who knows hockey would think that was a legit goal for even a split second. The only suspect behaviour of the refs was refusing to call anything on Team USA in the last 10 minutes, letting them get away with multiple holds and that obvious, textbook too many men call.

Pointing to the coaching is also weak. You had last change and for the majority of the game Hughes was clearly being matched against Bedard. The facts are simple. Canada’s depth was clearly stronger and the American stars were bad. Hughes is garbage defensively and really seems to lack the IQ of his brothers. Top-5 pick Gauthier was invisible and that top line, where Team USA concentrated all three of their playdriving forwards, got hemmed in repeatedly and exploited on the counterattack.

Goaltending turned decisively in Canada’s favour for the first time in ages. Is that not allowed? At the same time, we also hit more posts than you and it’s not like Augustine gave up any weak goals. Bedard backdoor tap-in, Stankoven backdoor tap-in, Fantilli backdoor tap-in, Roy fortunate bounce, Clarke perfect shot. The reality is that Team USA went with a d-corps of offensive defencemen that were always going to be brutal around their own net and got exploited badly by a strong forecheck and on the rush. I called it so before the tournament.

Want to talk turnovers? I’ve never seen as bad a stretch for a Canadian Junior team as the first 10 minutes. The giveaways were ludicrous and we couldn’t complete a pass. Even then, Team USA’s goals had a lot of luck to them. The Cooley goal was a completely broken play where the puck happened to land perfectly for him while the two defensemen covering him well could not find it. The Connors goal was a rebound that should have been kicked away into the corner. Neither were notable scoring chances.

In the end, the USA put up a ton of perimeter shots where the front of the net was kept clear by the Canadian defensemen. How many saves did Milic have to make while battling through a screen? How many rebounds? Canada surpassed the USA in slot shots and I am sure an equivalent measure of “quality scoring chances” would look identical - even after the horrific first 10 minutes. Team USA’s weak defense was exploited in their own end and on the forecheck. Canada’s superior skill made better of their chances and yes, for once we had the superior goaltending performance.

You lost to a better team, the team that was the favourites going in to the tournament. The game was tough and did not reflect the scoreboard. I’ve never seen a Canadian Junior team get dominated like those first 10 minutes. But run that game back and Canada wins a strong majority of times. Next year is the real run for the US, with far more returnees than us.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
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The 6-2 score line was not indicative of the game, but my God this is so disingenuous. Anything but giving credit to Canada, who basically everyone agreed was the favourite going in to the tournament…

Pointing to the refs is ludicrous. Most including myself disagree with the first disallowed goal on principle, but that is textbook goalie interference by the international standards. It wasn’t a coin flip. That would be called that way every single time. Milic was pushing across and his pad clearly would have been there to stop the puck if the USA player’s backside did not stop him short. As for the second disallowed goal, that should not even be mentioned. Nobody who knows hockey would think that was a legit goal for even a split second. The only suspect behaviour of the refs was refusing to call anything on Team USA in the last 10 minutes, letting them get away with multiple holds and that obvious, textbook too many men call.

Pointing to the coaching is also weak. You had last change and for the majority of the game Hughes was clearly being matched against Bedard. The facts are simple. Canada’s depth was clearly stronger and the American stars were bad. Hughes is garbage defensively and really seems to lack the IQ of his brothers. Top-5 pick Gauthier was invisible and that top line, where Team USA concentrated all three of their playdriving forwards, got hemmed in repeatedly and exploited on the counterattack.

Goaltending turned decisively in Canada’s favour for the first time in ages. Is that not allowed? At the same time, we also hit more posts than you and it’s not like Augustine gave up any weak goals. Bedard backdoor tap-in, Stankoven backdoor tap-in, Fantilli backdoor tap-in, Roy fortunate bounce, Clarke perfect shot. The reality is that Team USA went with a d-corps of offensive defencemen that were always going to be brutal around their own net and got exploited badly by a strong forecheck and on the rush. I called it so before the tournament.

Want to talk turnovers? I’ve never seen as bad a stretch for a Canadian Junior team as the first 10 minutes. The giveaways were ludicrous and we couldn’t complete a pass. Even then, Team USA’s goals had a lot of luck to them. The Cooley goal was a completely broken play where the puck happened to land perfectly for him while the two defensemen covering him well could not find it. The Connors goal was a rebound that should have been kicked away into the corner. Neither were notable scoring chances.

In the end, the USA put up a ton of perimeter shots where the front of the net was kept clear by the Canadian defensemen. How many saves did Milic have to make while battling through a screen? How many rebounds? Canada surpassed the USA in slot shots and I am sure an equivalent measure of “quality scoring chances” would look identical - even after the horrific first 10 minutes. Team USA’s weak defense was exploited in their own end and on the forecheck. Canada’s superior skill made better of their chances and yes, for once we had the superior goaltending performance.

You lost to a better team, the team that was the favourites going in to the tournament. The game was tough and did not reflect the scoreboard. I’ve never seen a Canadian Junior team get dominated like those first 10 minutes. But run that game back and Canada wins a strong majority of times. Next year is the real run for the US, with far more returnees than us.
In Bonney's defense, he's a terrific poster and what he wrote, he wrote immediately after a hard loss. And we've all been there - years ago, the Finns got a bunch of calls going their way at the World Championship (in the 3rd period) and I was none too pleased.

Having said that, D, I agree with you, Canada's win was well deserved / well earned.
 
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jfrank21

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Oct 1, 2009
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Not in the first ten minutes if you believe in the hockey gods
Bedard was out there tickling the chins of slovak players in the early games....I didnt see anyone complaining about antics then. The simple truth is that yes, Canada was probably the higher powered team, but the USA played them well until they got any and all momentum sucked away by relatively weak calls. Were the calls technically correct....maybe on the 2nd one, but it was extrememly frustrating to watch the game swing with those rulings. Even more so because I cheered for Canada in all prior games up to this one and enjoyed watching Bedard.
 
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Jaykay

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Jul 5, 2012
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Some thoughts as they came to mind

-It was surprising at the time when Lucius turned pro given all of the time he missed and the fact that he wasn't exactly dominating the NCAA level. Seems like hindsight hasn't made that decision look any better. My biggest disappointment of the tournament for the Americans.

-I made a post previously, but I would have had Gauthier as the second line center. He was marginalized in his role compared to what he's capable of and USA was desperate for secondary scoring.

-Snuggerud couldn't buy a goal against Canada. He's a great goal scorer, but Milic had his number last night.

-I'm not Cooley's biggest supporter, but thought he stepped up to the challenge and played excellent last night against Canada. I don't see a star here, but he'll be a good piece for Arizona. Skilled and doesn't back down from the fight.

-Frank Nazar was sorely missed all tournament.

-I'm not a Gavin Brindley fan at all, and don't see a very effective NHLer there, but he played a great game against Canada.

-Luke Hughes was horrible against Canada. I like him a lot, but his faults were on full display last night.

-The first no goal was BS. The second one was the correct call, but basically deflated USA after coming out flying in the 3rd. Tough loss, but I do think Canada was the better team this year.

-Next year's team should be the favorites IMO.

Lucius was a very underwhelming Gopher. I just don't see it with him, not sure how we will make it work in the NHL.
 
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Bonin21

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May 1, 2014
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-It was surprising at the time when Lucius turned pro given all of the time he missed and the fact that he wasn't exactly dominating the NCAA level. Seems like hindsight hasn't made that decision look any better. My biggest disappointment of the tournament for the Americans.
There was more to it than just thinking he was ready for the NHL. The Lucius family is known to be "complicated" to deal with.

Gopher fans are barely even claiming him as a former Gopher at this point.
 

Dominance

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In this boring 6-6 tied football game. Hughes with a creative backhand TD pass.

Not directed at you, but the Twitter user celebrating the “filthy” goal:

That’s a garbage play where Hughes is coming in on a 2 on 2 on his off wing and elects for some goofy spin when he has to shoot and got lit up. Celebrating an objectively stupid play that goes in 1/100,000 times against your average Junior A goalie is really grasping at straws.
 
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Jersey Fresh

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Not directed at you, but the Twitter user celebrating the “filthy” goal:

That’s a garbage play where Hughes is coming in on a 2 on 2 on his off wing and elects for some goofy spin when he has to shoot and got lit up. Celebrating an objectively stupid play that goes in 1/100,000 times against your average Junior A goalie is really grasping at straws.
The Hughes family must have done a number on you somewhere down the line. There's no other explanation.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Jan 13, 2004
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Not directed at you, but the Twitter user celebrating the “filthy” goal:

That’s a garbage play where Hughes is coming in on a 2 on 2 on his off wing and elects for some goofy spin when he has to shoot and got lit up. Celebrating an objectively stupid play that goes in 1/100,000 times against your average Junior A goalie is really grasping at straws.
You are clouded by you absolute rage and hate for all that is Devils. He has used that exact move at the blueline to walk countless forwards in this tournament and during league play with Michigan. Anything you say about Devils prospects will be dismissed and that is an unfortunate reputation to have.

I'm still waiting for your response to the last Sweden goal. I nitpicked something from Hughes on that play but the result is no different even if he did the little thing correct. It was a bad bounce.
 
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95snipes

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Dec 11, 2019
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There was more to it than just thinking he was ready for the NHL. The Lucius family is known to be "complicated" to deal with.

Gopher fans are barely even claiming him as a former Gopher at this point.
Interesting, didn't know that. Thanks for the reply.
 

Jersey Fan 12

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Nov 20, 2006
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By the way, coach, Chesley knows how to play actual defense...


Think that when USA Hockey assesses this tournament that will be one of the points of emphasis going forward.

Hutson's play on the game-winning goal and the Hughes goal from his knees will be replayed many times on the sports shows but bottom like 13 goals in two medal round games is unacceptable. Going into the tournament there were questions as to whether the defense corps was too small and skating oriented to provide structure and that proved to be the case.

That does not excuse the state of US goaltending (a separate topic but looking through the rosters of NCAA, major junior, and USHL teams it is clear the USA is falling behind not only Canada but given the number of players per capita also the European countries when it comes to producing elite goalies)..


While it is clear that the emphasis on creativity and stick handling skills has produced players with flash, it is now time for the more mundane but necessary positional parts of the game to be emphasized.

Fortunately, this situation is not unique. In the early 2000:s when the country of Finland began producing top goalies much of the credit was rightly attributed to coaching the position and the emphasis on position specific drills. However, another part of the equation was a dearth of elite defenders, where games consisted of endless odd man rushes and high risk plays. By necessity goalies like Rask and the others of that generation were forced to play at a high level.
 

ffh

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Lucius was a very underwhelming Gopher. I just don't see it with him, not sure how we will make it work in the NHL.
he only played 24 games. scored 9 goals and 10 assists as a 18 year old. this is underwhelming.
 
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