WJC: 2023 Team Canada Roster Talk

[Omark]

It is a HUGE factor. Canada had Connor Bedard in the summer tournament. We knew he had to be on the PP, but absolutely ZERO idea how to best utilize him. Regina, on the other hand, knows exactly where he fits in on the man advantage. When you get to a tournament, is it better to know all the roles for your players or to try to figure out out on the fly?

Hmm, so you are saying that after team meets, they practice instensively for a week and are ready to play, somehow if they continued that practice for 40 more weeks, the team would be better by HUGE amount?

This is something I don't believe in, and am always ready to put my money where my mouth is. It's similar thing as over doing player roles. You know the idea that fourth line should be defensive etc. I love how Canada proved this wrong by using only 100 point guys in 2012 olympics, no f'ing grinders in the fourth line.

 

[BondraTime]

Hmm, so you are saying that after team meets, they practice instensively for a week and are ready to play, somehow if they continued that practice for 40 more weeks, the team would be better by HUGE amount?

This is something I don't believe in, and am always ready to put my money where my mouth is. It's similar thing as over doing player roles. You know the idea that fourth line should be defensive etc. I love how Canada proved this wrong by using only 100 point guys in 2012 olympics, no f'ing grinders in the fourth line.

I would bet absolutely everything I have

It’s not some unproven concept. It’s a widely recognized and accepted fact based on decades and decades of precedence.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I know he's had some injury issues and is off to a slower start, but I still can't believe Savoie was left off the roster. The dude strikes me as the perfect type of player for these tournaments - tons of speed and creativity with a big shot who can play C or W and plays all situations. He's also pretty good in the dot.

Strikes me as a political decision to not invite him, just like with the US not inviting Voit.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I know he's had some injury issues and is off to a slower start, but I still can't believe Savoie was left off the roster. The dude strikes me as the perfect type of player for these tournaments - tons of speed and creativity with a big shot who can play C or W and plays all situations. He's also pretty good in the dot.

Strikes me as a political decision to not invite him, just like with the US not inviting Voit.

What would the political decision be? He has been in the WHL. I could just have no idea of the history that might be there.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What would the political decision be? He has been in the WHL. I could just have no idea of the history that might be there.

He went to play in the USHL during COVID.

 

[Peasy]

What would the political decision be? He has been in the WHL. I could just have no idea of the history that might be there.

He went to play in the USHL during COVID.

Even before that, he was threating to go the NCAA route if he didnt get exceptional status.

 

[JackSlater]

Hmm, so you are saying that after team meets, they practice instensively for a week and are ready to play, somehow if they continued that practice for 40 more weeks, the team would be better by HUGE amount?

This is something I don't believe in, and am always ready to put my money where my mouth is. It's similar thing as over doing player roles. You know the idea that fourth line should be defensive etc. I love how Canada proved this wrong by using only 100 point guys in 2012 olympics, no f'ing grinders in the fourth line.

Not really the thread for it but you've taken a very bizarre stance. Look at American results at the U18 (where the US team plays together extensively) and the U20 (where the US team is similar to the other teams in terms of preparation) since the U18 came into existence in 1999

Tournament​	Gold​	Silver​	Bronze​
U18​	10​	5​	3​
U20​	5​	1​	3​

The U18 results are significantly better, and that's despite the cancellation of the 2020 U18 tournament. It's also worth noting that USA generally has access to better players at the U20 since it has former U18 players plus all others. The U18 calendar is pretty messy with the IIHF U18 and the Hlinka admittedly.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Not really the thread for it but you've taken a very bizarre stance. Look at American results at the U18 (where the US team plays together extensively) and the U20 (where the US team is similar to the other teams in terms of preparation) since the U18 came into existence in 1999

Tournament​	Gold​	Silver​	Bronze​
U18​	10​	5​	3​
U20​	5​	1​	3​

The U18 results are significantly better, and that's despite the cancellation of the 2020 U18 tournament. It's also worth noting that USA generally has access to better players at the U20 since it has former U18 players plus all others. The U18 calendar is pretty messy with the IIHF U18 and the Hlinka admittedly.

The US doesn’t actually send the NTDP to the Hlinka - they only send those squads to the IIHF sanctioned events, so the U17’s and U18’s.

The Hlinka consists of “The best of the rest” in the US - their actual “B” team.

Unsurprisingly - the US hasn’t had much success at the Hlinka.

 

[Omark]

Not really the thread for it but you've taken a very bizarre stance. Look at American results at the U18 (where the US team plays together extensively) and the U20 (where the US team is similar to the other teams in terms of preparation) since the U18 came into existence in 1999

Tournament​	Gold​	Silver​	Bronze​
U18​	10​	5​	3​
U20​	5​	1​	3​

The U18 results are significantly better, and that's despite the cancellation of the 2020 U18 tournament. It's also worth noting that USA generally has access to better players at the U20 since it has former U18 players plus all others. The U18 calendar is pretty messy with the IIHF U18 and the Hlinka admittedly.

Canada misses more of their top players in U18 tournaments compared to U20. USA has all the best players in U18 but some of the best misses U20 due to NHL contract. The reason behind those stats is once again player material - which is the 95% base for team's success.

 

[cmcneil02]

What kind of player is Ryan Greene?

Didn’t hear his name discussed but he does seem to be doing pretty good at Boston University. Haven’t watched any film on the guy, he’s from Paradise, Newfoundland. So he’s a Local Atlantic boy. Maybe a dark horse?

 

[MosTLucky]

Didn't Dach have a strong summer and NHL camp? Could be a good bottom sixer on this team. Plus family ties

 

[Bubbles]

What would the political decision be? He has been in the WHL. I could just have no idea of the history that might be there.

It was explained earlier. He didn't want to report to a far outpost (PG?) if he was drafted. HC turned down his ES as a result.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

What kind of player is Ryan Greene?

Didn’t hear his name discussed but he does seem to be doing pretty good at Boston University. Haven’t watched any film on the guy, he’s from Paradise, Newfoundland. So he’s a Local Atlantic boy. Maybe a dark horse?

Without a doubt a dark horse and I feel he would be a good 13th forward, me and Jack actually were speaking about him a few weeks back.

I don’t know how well he would fit in a checking role but is a kid that is very talented offensively- he has good puck skills, strong skater, great vision and strong IQ.

He‘s the perfect player to replace anyone if they went down with injury throughout the lineup.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Without a doubt a dark horse and I feel he would be a good 13th forward, me and Jack actually were speaking about him a few weeks back.

I don’t know how well he would fit in a checking role but is a kid that is very talented offensively- he has good puck skills, strong skater, great vision and strong IQ.

He‘s the perfect player to replace anyone if they went down with injury throughout the lineup.

Seems a lot like Brayden Point, right down to him being a darkhorse for a spot on the roster

 

[canuck2010]

I know he's had some injury issues and is off to a slower start, but I still can't believe Savoie was left off the roster. The dude strikes me as the perfect type of player for these tournaments - tons of speed and creativity with a big shot who can play C or W and plays all situations. He's also pretty good in the dot.

Strikes me as a political decision to not invite him, just like with the US not inviting Voit.

I think the feeling between Savoie and Hockey Canada might be mutual. I don't think he has received any consideration since he played on Canada's representative at the YOG.

I haven't seen Voit play however I think that USA Hockey wants to make it clear that you play your hockey in the USA. You might have to be the second coming to play in the CHL and for the USA.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I think the feeling between Savoie and Hockey Canada might be mutual. I don't think he has received any consideration since he played on Canada's representative at the YOG.

I haven't seen Voit play however I think that USA Hockey wants to make it clear that you play your hockey in the USA. You might have to be the second coming to play in the CHL and for the USA.

Tyler Boucher from the 67s got a camp invitation yesterday though. I can assure you, as a 67s fan, he is certainly not the second coming.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I haven't seen Voit play however I think that USA Hockey wants to make it clear that you play your hockey in the USA. You might have to be the second coming to play in the CHL and for the USA.

Yeah that's a shame though. We shouldn't be blacklisting players just because they choose a different development path - Voit's game was better suited for development in the CHL vs the USHL / NCAA route IMO. Pastujov too.

I'd like to think we pick the players that give us our best chance at winning. And maybe they are, but it doesn't always feel that way.

 

[Elvis P]

The Hockey News Podcast: Analyzing World Junior Camp Rosters

Ryan Kennedy and Mike Stephens discuss Canada and USA's world junior camp rosters, if Steven Stamkos is underrated, Colorado's injuries, Brock Boeser and more.

thehockeynews.com

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I'm sure it's happened before, probably more than a few times - but has has a d-pairing on their CHL team ever made the national team and been paired together? Allan was traded to Seattle a few weeks ago and even though he's a lefty I believe he and Korchinski are paired together with Allan playing on the right side (which he did in Hawks prospects camp this summer). As a Hawks fan I hope so because it would be exciting to see what could be a future pairing in Chicago a few years down the line.

 

[JackSlater]

The US doesn’t actually send the NTDP to the Hlinka - they only send those squads to the IIHF sanctioned events, so the U17’s and U18’s.

The Hlinka consists of “The best of the rest” in the US - their actual “B” team.

Unsurprisingly - the US hasn’t had much success at the Hlinka.

I know that, it's why I did not bother including Hlinka results.

Canada misses more of their top players in U18 tournaments compared to U20. USA has all the best players in U18 but some of the best misses U20 due to NHL contract. The reason behind those stats is once again player material - which is the 95% base for team's success.

No, as I already said in the post the U20 roster has access to better talent since there are non development program players who are better than some of the development team players who are used by default at the U18. The NHL taking players out has probably helped USA more than it has hurt USA since 1999, where USA doesn't really stand out from any other country in terms of losses apart from Canada, which has lost by far the highest number of players since 1999. Yes USA would lose some more tournaments if Canada had its best players at the U18 but it wouldn't make the gap with the WJC just disappear.

At the U18 USA has been in the championship game in 15/23 (65%) tournaments since 1999. At the U20 level it is 6/24 (25%). You came in hot with a bizarre theory but it's probably time to reassess given how stark the results are and what the biggest difference is.

 

[jackp0t]

Maybe it is an aspect that I'm under-appreciating.

I'm sure that I am still closer to the truth than the mainstream idea that it is somehow a huge factor.

It doesn't take a year to get to know your linemates. You practice with them a week and you're fine. They actually even change lineups during games in the highest competition (NHL).

Dont forget the coach. They are under-appreciated as well but they need to know what type of players they have. Two weeks of practice with your teammate doesnt tell you if the player will shy away if the game gets physical, or if he's willing to dive in front of a shot on the PK.

Practice is great but its not as valuable as game time for a coach evaluation. Some guys dominate in practice and come game day they are clueless. Or the opposite, a Jordan Dumais who looks like your average player in practice and is your best player in game situation.

 

[cmcneil02]

My Updated 2023 World Juniors Projected Lines for Team Canada, not including Wright, Guenther, & Clarke.

LINES
Othmann | Stankoven | Bedard
Ostapchuk | Gaucher | Bolduc
Kidney | Fantilli | Roy
Schaefer | Dean | Dumais
Beck, Dach

Del Mastro | Zellweger
Lambos | Matier
Korchinski | Allan
Nause, Samson

Milic
Brennan
Rousseau

CUT: Bankier, Greene,
CUT: Tyson Hinds
CUT: Benjamin Gaudreau

 

[NewGenScout]

I noticed an interesting thing, they only invited 4 17-18 years old forwards (Bedard, Fantilli, Dumais, Beck) and only 1 D (Korchinski) . Assuming that Bedard and Fantilli both play NHL next year (which I am very confident), do you think that Beck, Dumais (and Korchinski on D) have good chances to make that team at least as 12 or 13th forward to prep for next year? If not, that would mean that they would have 0 returning forwards next year. Just a thought? Maybe it's common based on past experience. Team USA will be stacked with 18 years old on their side, therefore next year they will be a Beast team, but they might also lose some players to NHL Teams, but most will probably play NCAA.

My point is that they know what they’re doing. It’s probably Beck and Dumais that moved Savoie, Geekie and Firkus ou of the Camp. If they need goals and purely offensive player, they know that Dumais can do the job as he has been producing more than all of them for 2 years now and if they need a shut down powerful and fast player for the 3rd and 4th line they know that Beck can do a better job than Savoie, Geekie and Firkus.

Just a thought…

 

[cmcneil02]

I noticed an interesting thing, they only invited 4 17-18 years old forwards (Bedard, Fantilli, Dumais, Beck) and only 1 D (Korchinski) . Assuming that Bedard and Fantilli both play NHL next year (which I am very confident), do you think that Beck, Dumais (and Korchinski on D) have a better chances to make that team at least as 12 or 13th forward to prep for next year? If not, that would mean that they would have 0 returning forwards next year. Just a thought? Maybe it's common based on past experience. Team USA will be stacked with 18 years old on their side, therefore next year they will be a Beast team, but they might also lose some players to NHL Teams, but most will probably play NCAA.

I think all five of them have a crack at making the roster anyways!

 

[57special]

So does Bankier have zero chance to make the team? Does anyone know why he might have been invited, and what role he would fill on the team?