Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Part Deux

[Bill Peckerskull]

Someone might want to inform Saad that he won The Cup with the Avs so he can come get his ring...

 

[John Mandalorian]

Someone might want to inform Saad that he won The Cup with the Avs so he can come get his ring...

Was going to say that too but his main point about the 2022 team being superior is still true even if erroneous about Saad.

 

[JH21]

Crazy to think that at one point this team had all of Duchene/ROR/Stastny/MacKinnon.

You'd think Joe Sakic of all people would understand the value of centers.

And how well did we play when we had those guys?

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Do you remember the D those teams were fielding? Guenin, Holden, Redmond, Cuminskey, Zanon.... should I continue?

That is kind of my point. It doesn't matter how good your C depth is if the rest of the roster is crap.

 

[JH21]

I think they should throw this season and sell in all honesty. See how it goes with Landy and Nuke and get Frail Cale the surgery.

Not our yesr

Oh good to know the seasons over. I have sh*t to do.

 

[Ararana]

And we never won anything with all of them...just saying.....

Because that team was shit.

If you hear "you can't win without proper center depth" and your brain turns that into "you can't lose with proper center depth" that's on you, bud.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Because that team was shit.

If you hear "you can't win without proper center depth" and your brain turns that into "you can't lose with proper center depth" that's on you, bud.

But you said in your original post that Sakic should understand the importance of C depth because we had at one point Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Mack. My point is that it doesn't matter how good your C depth is if the rest of the roster is crap.

 

[The Abusement Park]

But you said in your original post that Sakic should understand the importance of C depth because we had at one point Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Mack. My point is that it doesn't matter how good your C depth is if the rest of the roster is crap.

Just like it doesn’t matter how good your D core is if the rest of the roster is crap.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

 

[AvsFan2123]

So obviously there’s not a whole lot left as far as rentals go for 2C. Henrique didn’t seem like a huge upgrade but I read a fairly encouraging article from Dom that made me a little more on board for him. Honestly would rather have him than Wennberg I think. Cause we can possibly pawn off RyJo in that same trade. But basically Dom said Henrique can work as a 2C if paired with skilled and hard working wings. Hello. That’s something the Avs DO have a fair amount of, with or without Landeskog. I say that assuming Nuke is back at some point this year. G wasn’t gone all that long. Hoping we see Val pop up at practice within the next couple weeks. Also that’s with or without Landeskog. To meet halfway, I’ll do it with Nuke and no Landy. With Kovalenko;

Drouin - Mack - Rantanen
Lehkonen - Henrique - Nichushkin
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogliano - Olofsson - Parise


I’m not saying I want Henrique, I would like a solution for longer term. If not addressed at TDL then please FFS this summer. But I’m mostly saying I won’t be as bummed if it is him cause it sounds like he’s better than we think.

 

[Balthazar]

I’m not saying I want Henrique, I would like a solution for longer term.

The easiest path for this GM (short of doing nothing) is to go for Henrique at the deadline and hope for Ritchie next year.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Just like it doesn’t matter how good your D core is if the rest of the roster is crap.

Ahhhhh OK....I agree. That is obviously part of my point. You need a well-constructed team with the least amount of holes and if you do have holes you hope to fill the important ones such as the 2C.

 

[JH21]

Just like it doesn’t matter how good your D core is if the rest of the roster is crap.

We were one of the worst teams in the league with that center group.

Right now we are tied for the 6th most points in the league all without Landeskog and key guys like Lehkonen and Nichushkin missing large portions. With this defensive group. And won a Cup with a one handed Kadri at 2C.

So yeah.

 

[Ararana]

But you said in your original post that Sakic should understand the importance of C depth because we had at one point Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Mack. My point is that it doesn't matter how good your C depth is if the rest of the roster is crap.

No. Sakic should understand the importance of center depth because he was a center in the NHL for 20 damn years. The fact that he let 3 of those 4 centers slip through his fingers is just proof that he doesn't.

Obviously being strong in one position isn't enough to win, regardless of what that position is. No one is arguing that. I'm arguing that you will not win if you're weak down the middle, regardless of how strong you are in other positions. Center depth is a requirement for any cup aspirations.

 

[Alienblood]

No. Sakic should understand the importance of center depth because he was a center in the NHL for 20 damn years. The fact that he let 3 of those 4 centers slip through his fingers is just proof that he doesn't.

Obviously being strong in one position isn't enough to win, regardless of what that position is. No one is arguing that. I'm arguing that you will not win if you're weak down the middle, regardless of how strong you are in other positions. Center depth is a requirement for any cup aspirations.

A strong d core is too and actually is more important

 

[Ararana]

A strong d core is too and actually is more important

I understand the argument, and I agree both positions are exceptionally important. But IMO I take centers over defensemen by a fair margin in a vacuum.

Now in the case of today's Avs, they could easily ship off a defenseman not named Makar and they'd still have two of Toews/Byram/Girard + Manson.

But here we are... The Avs have basically turned themselves into the inverse of the Maple Leafs. They're simply not going to win as currently constructed.

 

[Alienblood]

I understand the argument, and I agree both positions are exceptionally important. But IMO I take centers over defensemen by a fair margin in a vacuum.

Now in the case of today's Avs, they could easily ship off a defenseman not named Makar and they'd still have two of Toews/Byram/Girard + Manson. But here we are...

I've played both positions and defense is for more important. You have to better skater better skate all ways and you have much fire control.iver the cane in general


But yeah C is important too. Have you ever watched Tavares try ro skate backwards or how easily a forward gets best whe they are covering a dman. It's quite surprising how bad a mot of the forwards skate backwards

 

[Ararana]

I've played both positions...

I hate these arguments.

 

[The Abusement Park]

We were one of the worst teams in the league with that center group.

Right now we are tied for the 6th most points in the league all without Landeskog and key guys like Lehkonen and Nichushkin missing large portions. With this defensive group. And won a Cup with a one handed Kadri at 2C.

So yeah.

I mean the cup winning team and this one aren’t remotely comparable.

And the current team is just being dragged along by Mack, Mikko, and Makar. The depth is either not good enough or playing wayyy to high in the lineup. Any team with half decent depth has a very good chance of beating this roster as currently constructed.

 

[JH21]

I understand the argument, and I agree both positions are exceptionally important. But IMO I take centers over defensemen by a fair margin in a vacuum.

Now in the case of today's Avs, they could easily ship off a defenseman not named Makar and they'd still have two of Toews/Byram/Girard + Manson.

But here we are... The Avs have basically turned themselves into the inverse of the Maple Leafs. They're simply not going to win as currently constructed.

Franchise Dmen are extremely hard to find. Capable 1C's are not IMO. We are just fortunate to have both.

It's kindof proof when we had 4 legit centers but God awful Dmen for almost a decade. You can find top centers almost anywhere. Not elite guys like Mackinnon but guys who can carry their line and put up 80 points. But finding a Dman who can play 25 minutes a night on both ends? Good luck.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

No. Sakic should understand the importance of center depth because he was a center in the NHL for 20 damn years. The fact that he let 3 of those 4 centers slip through his fingers is just proof that he doesn't.

Obviously being strong in one position isn't enough to win, regardless of what that position is. No one is arguing that. I'm arguing that you will not win if you're weak down the middle, regardless of how strong you are in other positions. Center depth is a requirement for any cup aspirations.

Your first paragraph points to me misunderstanding your initial point....although I disagree that he doesn't care. Stastny saw himself being sqeezed out to 3C and therefore losing money. ROR wanted out because of a contract dispute with somebody else than Sakic. Duchene wanted out because "he wanted to play playoffs hockey".

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Centers are the most important players on a team(comparatively at least) and a #1C is by far the most important position in hockey. I'd say the only thing more rare than an elite 1C, is a #1 that's Right Handed.


Avs are extremely lucky to have both right now which is precisely why it should be incredibly frustrating to everyone that our management is not giving those two guys enough support to win multiple cups.


Teams spend years looking for just 1 of those guys(Elite 1C or #1RHD) nevermind getting 2.

 

[JH21]

I mean the cup winning team and this one aren’t remotely comparable.

And the current team is just being dragged along by Mack, Mikko, and Makar. The depth is either not good enough or playing wayyy to high in the lineup. Any team with half decent depth has a very good chance of beating this roster as currently constructed.

Take guys like Landeskog, Nichushkin and Lehkonen off any team and their depth will suffer.

Guys were complaining last year that we didn't replace Landy but it's easier said than done replacing a guy like him.

As for our team defensive game, when you lose 3 elite defensive forwards for most of the year your D game will suffer. That's the way it is.

The fact is guys like Kiviranta and MacDermid have to play because Lehkonen and Nichushkin have been out and we cannot just replace a guy like Landeskog overnight.

Do you think we would still be having this argument if we had this team group playing every single game from the start of the season:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Nichushkin
Lehkonen- Who cares- Rantanen
Drouin- Johansen- Cogliano
Wood- Colton- O'Connor

Toews - Makar
Girard- Manson
Byram - Johnson

 

[Pokecheque]

No. Sakic should understand the importance of center depth because he was a center in the NHL for 20 damn years. The fact that he let 3 of those 4 centers slip through his fingers is just proof that he doesn't.

Obviously being strong in one position isn't enough to win, regardless of what that position is. No one is arguing that. I'm arguing that you will not win if you're weak down the middle, regardless of how strong you are in other positions. Center depth is a requirement for any cup aspirations.

I mean if we're using that argument, those teams that Sakic played on also had some kick-ass wingers on them as well.

Also to be fair to Sakic, he did indeed shore up the center depth for the Avs during HIS tenure, I get that he's still in a position of power but the decision to let Kadri walk and instead use cap space to re-sign Manson, that one's on MacFarland.

If there's one major faceplant Sakic made during his tenure it's that he did far, far too little to fix the drafting.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Take guys like Landeskog, Nichushkin and Lehkonen off any team and their depth will suffer.

Guys were complaining last year that we didn't replace Landy but it's easier said than done replacing a guy like him.

As for our team defensive game, when you lose 3 elite defensive forwards for most of the year your D game will suffer. That's the way it is.

The fact is guys like Kiviranta and MacDermid have to play because Lehkonen and Nichushkin have been out and we cannot just replace a guy like Landeskog overnight.

Do you think we would still be having this argument if we had this team group playing every single game from the start of the season:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Nichushkin
Lehkonen- Who cares- Rantanen
Drouin- Johansen- Cogliano
Wood- Colton- O'Connor

Toews - Makar
Girard- Manson
Byram - Johnson

I mean Landy coming back and being effective top 6 player is very much up for debate. I really don’t think he should be counted on at all in the playoffs.

Drouin-Mack-Nuke
Lehky-Wennberg-Mikko
Wood-Colton-LOC
Cogs-Olofsson-Kiviranta

This is probably the most likely playoff forward group. And it’s fine. If they add a higher end 2C then the cup chances shoot up dramatically. But I just don’t believe in the FO to add the pieces necessary at the TDL.