Speculation: 2023-24 Free Agency/Trade Thread II

[lwvs84]

Realistically, this team isn't going to have a true #1 D next year (or for a while until one of the D... Minty most likely... become one). Spread the minutes out more next season. See if Fowler is the reason that unit is good or if Minty/Zell can run that unit just as well. If they can, reduce his minutes there. Run:
Minty (PP-PK?)-Gudas(PK)
Fowler (PK)-Zellweger?(PP)
Vaak/LaCombe (PK?)-FA/Trade/Luneau(PK?)

5 on 5 spread the minutes out more evenly, give the kids the PP's because they are the future. Ease Minty on the PK and see if he can handle it/improves there. IF the PP can work just as "well" without Fowler, that reduces his minutes and spreading out the 5v5 reduces it more. It's hard to make the D pairs without knowing if/who we sign in FA. It could be Minty/Fowler/Zell on LD and Gudas/Luneau/FA on RD (not in that order for either side) and then mix and match from there.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

Doubt it will be anything major. It's been pointed out in this thread, PV talked about what he wanted to do over the summer, he said there were two things, top 6 scorer and a bottom 6 scorer, and the second one might be next year. Like HD said, if Zell and Luneau are here, then we're full up on D. PV mentioned he wanted some depth on D to keep from raiding San Diego, hence Lagesson, so if there's anything on D I imagine it'll be of the 7th/8th/9th D variety.

The last I heard there was still some uncertainty about Luneau's health, so that could change things with regards to constructing the defense. The blueline next year is still going to be very green regardless of the Luneau situation.

That doesn't give me much reason for optimism unless guys like Mintyukov, Zellweger, and LaCombe take major strides over the summer. I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect that though. Even if they do, you'd still expect guys like Fowler and Gudas to decline a bit.

Just seems like next year will be more of the same with the d-core.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Literally one of the most productive defensemen on the PP in the league. I get if you think it doesn't pass the eye test, but stop acting like he is making the PP terrible or something.

Oh please.. Half his points are 2nd hand point.. 2nd assists.. He Cant QB a powerplay.. He never walks the line.. Has a p***y muffin shot that 80 percent of the time gets blocked.. Is afraid of contact... Prove me wrong on this one.. We need someone who has a canon and is not afraid to use it. Cam has great skating ability and is able to keep up in the play.. Thats about it at this point in his carrer.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Oh please.. Half his points are 2nd hand point.. 2nd assists.. He Cant QB a powerplay.. He never walks the line.. Has a p***y muffin shot that 80 percent of the time gets blocked.. Is afraid of contact... Prove me wrong on this one.. We need someone who has a canon and is not afraid to use it. Cam has great skating ability and is able to keep up in the play.. Thats about it at this point in his carrer.

An argument against Cam using stats isn't an easy one to win because his defenders can and always do point to that and you can't really argue with it. A lot of the problems with Cam relate to things he isn't doing on the ice (eg, complete and utter lack of physicality, inability to hold the blue line, refusal to take risks in most offensive situations, not getting shots thru, as you pointed out).

 

[Deuce22]

An argument against Cam using stats isn't an easy one to win because his defenders can and always do point to that and you can't really argue with it. A lot of the problems with Cam relate to things he isn't doing on the ice (eg, complete and utter lack of physicality, inability to hold the blue line, refusal to take risks in most offensive situations, not getting shots thru, as you pointed out).

The best argument is that cumulative points are in a large part a result of opportunity. If Fowler's TOI is greater at 5 on 5 and on the PP, then he should lead the team's D in points.

 

[DavidBL]

The best argument is that cumulative points are in a large part a result of opportunity. If Fowler's TOI is greater at 5 on 5 and on the PP, then he should lead the team's D in points.

Thats not a good argument either as ice time is not all considered equal. At this point I don't either side is going to be convinced of the others perspective as they just see the idtuation differently. I don't see a need to harp on it every thread. Discussing the defense. Just assume he'll be here as it doesn't seem likely he'll be moved.

 

[Hey234]

It's interesting because PV didn't mention adding a top 4D as his focus this summer. That doesn't mean he can't or won't but it's interesting nonetheless. IMO there is a clear logjam at LD next season and going forward.

Fowler and Mintyukov are obvious locks for LD. That leaves one spot for Vaakanainen, LaCombe, and Zellweger (unless they play Zell on the RD). Vaakanainen was a piece of the Lindholm trade and he's played solid all season. I can't see PV letting him go. LaCombe has clear talent and I highly doubt they are playing him in San Diego next season. Same with Zellweger. Luneau and Gudas are locks for RD because PV has stated so.

So either some combination of Zellweger, Vaakanainen, and LaCombe will be playing on their off-side higher in the lineup than they should be next season or something doesn't add up to me. There is a clear need on the right and a clear surplus on the left. It seems hard to believe that PV won't add a RD somehow and maybe trade someone on he left.

 

[Deuce22]

Thats not a good argument either as ice time is not all considered equal. At this point I don't either side is going to be convinced of the others perspective as they just see the idtuation differently. I don't see a need to harp on it every thread. Discussing the defense. Just assume he'll be here as it doesn't seem likely he'll be moved.

So you don't expect that the guy with the most PP and 5 on 5 time should score the most points?

 

[DavidBL]

So you don't expect that the guy with the most PP and 5 on 5 time should score the most points?

Then what, the rest of the team, the rest if the league? He has the most points. You're trying to simplify an equation that can't be simplified like that. There are too many variables. You can't assume a guy lower in the lineup will maintain production when put higher in the lineup. It can happen, and does as players grow, but you can't just assume they will. Minty is the most likely to do it. I'm not convinced he's there yet. Should they try and give him more opportunities, I'm not against that. We had this conversation weeks ago. If you want to reduce fowlers minutes I'm okay with that but he's still the Ducks vest defensemen and no one has proven they can do that role better. If they had their minutes would reflect it.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

An argument against Cam using stats isn't an easy one to win because his defenders can and always do point to that and you can't really argue with it. A lot of the problems with Cam relate to things he isn't doing on the ice (eg, complete and utter lack of physicality, inability to hold the blue line, refusal to take risks in most offensive situations, not getting shots thru, as you pointed out).

Well yeah, one’s objective and the others subjective. Stats have their flaws but they’re a lot better than blind assertions that have no backing. I don’t totally agree with any of the subjective things you mentioned, so without actual evidence you can say literally anything.

IMO Cam gets grief as a powerplay option because he doesn’t have a big shot and most people can’t see past that when it comes to PP blueliners. He’s been the main guy on a lot of good units throughout the years, he probably isn’t a total dud.

Realistically, this team isn't going to have a true #1 D next year (or for a while until one of the D... Minty most likely... become one). Spread the minutes out more next season. See if Fowler is the reason that unit is good or if Minty/Zell can run that unit just as well. If they can, reduce his minutes there. Run:
Minty (PP-PK?)-Gudas(PK)
Fowler (PK)-Zellweger?(PP)
Vaak/LaCombe (PK?)-FA/Trade/Luneau(PK?)

5 on 5 spread the minutes out more evenly, give the kids the PP's because they are the future. Ease Minty on the PK and see if he can handle it/improves there. IF the PP can work just as "well" without Fowler, that reduces his minutes and spreading out the 5v5 reduces it more. It's hard to make the D pairs without knowing if/who we sign in FA. It could be Minty/Fowler/Zell on LD and Gudas/Luneau/FA on RD (not in that order for either side) and then mix and match from there.

Time will tell when they get there but the team’s eventual #1 D(and probably 2 and 3 as well) are either already here or will be in June. For better or for worse Luneau seems to be Verbeek’s major addition back there and they’ll go from there.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Thats not a good argument either as ice time is not all considered equal. At this point I don't either side is going to be convinced of the others perspective as they just see the idtuation differently. I don't see a need to harp on it every thread. Discussing the defense. Just assume he'll be here as it doesn't seem likely he'll be moved.

Seriously i cant wait until fowler talk gets moved to former ducks thread... tired of him flooding all the threads.

That will also be the signal that the rebuild is over.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I’d bet money that the earliest Cam leaves here is either at the end of his contract or the TDL in his last contract year.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It's interesting because PV didn't mention adding a top 4D as his focus this summer. That doesn't mean he can't or won't but it's interesting nonetheless. IMO there is a clear logjam at LD next season and going forward.

Fowler and Mintyukov are obvious locks for LD. That leaves one spot for Vaakanainen, LaCombe, and Zellweger (unless they play Zell on the RD). Vaakanainen was a piece of the Lindholm trade and he's played solid all season. I can't see PV letting him go. LaCombe has clear talent and I highly doubt they are playing him in San Diego next season. Same with Zellweger. Luneau and Gudas are locks for RD because PV has stated so.

So either some combination of Zellweger, Vaakanainen, and LaCombe will be playing on their off-side higher in the lineup than they should be next season or something doesn't add up to me. There is a clear need on the right and a clear surplus on the left. It seems hard to believe that PV won't add a RD somehow and maybe trade someone on he left.

I think PV was far too rigid in his "preference" to have defensemen play on their shooting side. He literally is closing off options when he doesn't need to do it. LaCombe, Zellweger, and Hinds have been playing RD for years as left-hand stick handlers before going pro. All three excelled in as RD's before going pro.

If PV can get over himself, then the Ducks have depth at RD.

As for the kids playing on the PP, I think LaCombe gets overlooked. The one time he plays PP QB1, he gets two assists! LaCombe plays the tradition QB1 role of staying on the blueline where as Minty and Zell want to rove and dive down. I think Brown's PP is more traditional where someone like LaCombe can do well, but it doesn't maximize how Minty and Zell play. We can do so much more if we cater to how Minty and Zell play b/c we can create so much chaos with their movement diving down. We're allowed to have two or more different types of PP.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I’d bet money that the earliest Cam leaves here is either at the end of his contract or the TDL in his last contract year.

I'd bet money that you'd win money on that bet.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I’d bet money that the earliest Cam leaves here is either at the end of his contract or the TDL in his last contract year.

He unfortunately would be hard to move, due to his nmc, cap and pay.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

He unfortunately would be hard to move, due to his nmc, cap and pay.

At that point in time the cap would be significantly higher, we would likely still retain 50%, and he might be much more amenable to a trade for the last two months of his contract in order to have a shot at playing for the cup.

He would easily be a depth D almost any contender would like for the right price. Neither the NMC, cap, or pay would be huge hurdles to overcome at that time.

 

[MCB]

Oh please.. Half his points are 2nd hand point.. 2nd assists.. He Cant QB a powerplay.. He never walks the line.. Has a p***y muffin shot that 80 percent of the time gets blocked.. Is afraid of contact... Prove me wrong on this one.. We need someone who has a canon and is not afraid to use it. Cam has great skating ability and is able to keep up in the play.. Thats about it at this point in his carrer.

80% of his shots aren't blocked.
80% of his shots don't even hit anything except the glass five feet away from everyone.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think cam is as bad as some say, I'm on the "lower his minutes and start using minty or zell on pp instead" wagon. But I do still think he's useful in a 3/4 role (2d if we had a true 1d) and I truly believe he should never shoot the puck again.

 

[Emerald Duck]

I hope the Ducks set Minty up with a good shooting coach this off season. His only weakness at this point in his career is that he lacks a dangerous shot from the blue line.

Scotty had a muffin from the blueline but his IQ, elite skating and active stick allowed him to roam all over the ice and control play. I'm not sure Minty has those skating skills to play the same way.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I hope the Ducks set Minty up with a good shooting coach this off season. His only weakness at this point in his career is that he lacks a dangerous shot from the blue line.

Scotty had a muffin from the blueline but his IQ, elite skating and active stick allowed him to roam all over the ice and control play. I'm not sure Minty has those skating skills to play the same way.

I don’t think his shot is bad, I think he just doesn’t use it enough, which will likely come in time.

Mintyukov skating isn’t as smooth as Scott’s, but he’s a very good skater for his build/size.

 

[Rybread86]

Oh please god no. Dont ruin Minty by comparing him to Scotty. Thats how we got where we are with Fowler.

 

[Gliff]

Oh please god no. Dont ruin Minty by comparing him to Scotty. Thats how we got where we are with Fowler.

Cam basically was a Scottie-lite. It was a perfect comparison. He was just worse at everything and didnt have some qualities Scottie had at all.

Minty is not a good comparison to Scotty at all.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Cam basically was a Scottie-lite. It was a perfect comparison. He was just worse at everything and didnt have some qualities Scottie had at all.

Minty is not a good comparison to Scotty at all.

the doughty comp for Mintyukov is prob the best.

Style wise

 

[AngelDuck]

the doughty comp for Mintyukov is prob the best.

Style wise

Disagree. Doughty was an elite puck transporter in his prime and a dynamic skater. I don’t see Mintyukov like that. Mintys best quality is his deception in the offensive zone and breakout passes

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Disagree. Doughty was an elite puck transporter in his prime and a dynamic skater. I don’t see Mintyukov like that. Mintys best quality is his deception in the offensive zone and breakout passes

doughty has a lot a deception in his game and I think the puck transporter skill was developed as he grew into nhl role, I see similar thing happening with Mintyukov(I agree it’s not a perfect comp, but it’s the best that I’ve seen)…. Mintyukov imo has a pretty unique skill set/style tho.

What would you rate Mintyukov skating? I think he’s pretty dynamic skater for his size/build.

 

[tomd]

IMO Mintyukov compares closer to Sergei Zubov for those of you old enough to remember him. Open question whether he achieves that potential but the signs are good so far.