WJC: 2022 Germany roster talk

[Maverick41]

Just to quickly add my two cents on Maximilian Glötzl and Paul Meyer.
I was fairly high on Glötzl and thought he should have been drafted, although I felt his play in his draft year was not as good as I had hoped it would be.
And I still like him and wish he would have gotten more minutes in the DEL this past season.

As for Mayer I somewhat disagree with @Halfdan. I see more than hype in Meyer, and I am slightly higher on him than I was on Glötzl at the same time in his career. So, while I think there is a decent chance as of right now (still a long time to go) that Meyer could get drafted, he just might end up undrafted like Glötzl did. So far what I have seen from him tells me that he is among the best prospects we have coming up on defense, and I hope he will take the next step playing in Mannheim. With his move I will be able to see a lot more of Mayer next season and I am looking forward to it, because it will give me a better picture of his abilities and his progress. I have seen him a bit this season, but the sample size was still small enough that I might just have caught his good games and not the bad ones. Mayer and Tropmann are two of the prospects I am most intrigued by right now, and I want to see more from them.

Where I absolutely agree with halfdan is that the 2003 vintage is just not very good. Hänelt is ok, so is Quapp (as far as you can tell with goalies at that age) and Proske is pretty good, too. Everyone else really is kind of meh, and you would have to hope there are some late bloomers in there.

 

[Chompskiii]

I see Ryan Del Monte was invited to camp.

According to IIHF rules he shouldn’t be allowed to play for Germany I’m pretty sure.

 

[Halfdan]

I was fairly high on Glötzl and thought he should have been drafted, although I felt his play in his draft year was not as good as I had hoped it would be.
And I still like him and wish he would have gotten more minutes in the DEL this past season.

You are right about Glötzl. Unfortunately, he didn't have a good year in an important phase of his career. That's unfortunate, but he will make his way. There is a life outside the NHL. Unimaginable, but it's true.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Great stuff @Halfdan and @Maverick41

Good to hear and see some differnt views/takes on this stuff.

To be clear, the 2002 group with Stützle, Reichel, and Peterka won't soon be replicated. That was a very, very special year for German ice hockey, even coming off the heals of Seider before that. But the only player who has even come close to generating that excitement was Lutz, and that all quieted down this year - considerably. And for good reason.

I don't know if the 2005 group will turn the corner a bit. Looks like there are already 5 Dmen of note, with Mayer and Tropmann being two of them. That Mayer has been added by Mannheim is a statement of sorts. Kaufbeuren did wonderfully in the DNL this year, so for Mannheim to reach over and get him into the fold - whether people like it or not - is a sign that he's seen as perhaps "special" for his age group. Sumpf and Vinzenz almost made this year's U18 squad, so we'll see what they're all about next season.

NHL aside (and prolly, at these boards, few posters are keen on coming here to discuss what's going on in the DEL, DEL2, etc. unless it pertains to players who may be able to make a career of it outside of Germany), Glötzl definitely left an impression at the DNL level that he could be an up and coming two-way defenseman of international class. What I saw at his first WJC was that he was somewhat overwhelmed. The speed of the game was a lot to handle and I felt many of his puck decisions were questionable. His blueline play in the offensive zone really stood out in stark contrast to Münzenberg, for example, who used that WJC to basically get drafted (he really didn't otherwise play that season). I saw hesitation and inaccuracy from Glötzl.

In light of what I saw under the microscope in that WJC appearance, I haven't been too surprised by what has happened since. It's not just that he didn't look like a prospect of interest to the NHL, but also that there's still not been enough there to say a DEL team can plan with him as a top 6 guy. That's ok, of course. He's still quite young. Hopefully he'll have a steady job in the DEL2 if that's what's best at this juncture. Dmen take longer to mature anyway.

As for the info on Abstreiter, that's some nice insider stuff. Sounds like you know him personally @Halfdan?

I know the DEB has not released any news about summer WJC preparations. No listing of camps or who is being invited or not.

Is this available to be seen somewhere?

Cimmermann, Rausch, Del Monte... where are you guys seeing this?

 

[Chompskiii]

Is this available to be seen somewhere?

Cimmermann, Rausch, Del Monte... where are you guys seeing this?

KADER FÜR JUNI LEHRGANG IN FÜSSEN (Stand: 27.05.2022):

Pos.	Nr.	Name	Vorname	Geb.-Dat.	Verein 2022/2023
GK	29	Bugl	Florian	14.05.2002	Straubing Tigers
GK	31	Lunemann	Niklas	27.04.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
GK	30	Quapp	Nikita	25.01.2003	Eisbären Berlin
DF	20	van der Linde	Leon	13.03.2003	ESV Kaufbeuren
DF	16	Dziambor	Arkadiusz	31.01.2002	Adler Mannheim/Heilbronner Falken
DF	5	Wäser	Julian	27.03.2003	Eisbären Berlin/Lausitzer Füchse
DF	22	Glötzl	Maximilian	16.05.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
DF	28	Klein	Adrian	19.09.2003	Straubing Tigers/EV Landshut
DF	2	Elten	Nils	12.06.2003	Iserlohn Roosters/Herner EV Miners
DF	11	Geibel	Korbinian	08.07.2002	Lausitzer Füchse
DF	4	Szuber	Maksymilian	25.08.2002	Red Bull München
FW	24	Blank	Alexander	04.02.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	14	Cimmerman	Sebastian	14.02.2003	Red Bull München
FW	17	Proske	Yannick	10.06.2003	Spokane Chiefs/Iserlohn Roosters
FW	19	Hänelt	Haakon	01.06.2003	Olympiques d Gatineau
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	6	Heigl	Nikolaus	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	13	Del Monte	Ryan	03.04.2003	Barrie Colts
FW	18	Eham	Josef	29.07.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	7	Elias	Florian	07.08.2002	Schwenninger Wild Wings
FW	23	Heigl	Thomas	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	10	Leonhardt	Danjo	22.08.2002	Nürnberg Ice Tigers
FW	21	Hauf	Luca	11.01.2004	Löwen Frankfurt
FW	27	Roßmy	Bennet	01.08.2003	Eisbären Berlin
FW	12	Rutkowski	Maciej	02.10.2002	Iserlohn Roosters
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	26	Schweiger	Markus	31.08.2002	ESV Kaufbeuren
FW	9	Volek	Justin	08.02.2002	Augsburger Panther

Link: U20-Nationalmannschaft | Deutscher Eishockey-Bund e.V.

 

[Maverick41]

You are right about Glötzl. Unfortunately, he didn't have a good year in an important phase of his career. That's unfortunate, but he will make his way. There is a life outside the NHL. Unimaginable, but it's true.

Whether or not his way leads to the NHL at some point or maybe another European league that is stronger than the DEL, who knows, but I also believe he will make his way and I expect him to become a mainstay on the national team before too long.

 

[Maverick41]

I see Ryan Del Monte was invited to camp.

According to IIHF rules he shouldn’t be allowed to play for Germany I’m pretty sure.

He was born in Germany and if he originally had the German citizenship, he would be eligible to play for Germany, I believe.
Most of the rules where players must have played a certain number of years in a country and so on, only apply if someone changes citizenship, if I am not mistaken.
And since he has never played for either Canada or Germany before, he could be free to choose either one.

But this is just me guessing based on what I could find.

 

[Chompskiii]

He was born in Germany and if he originally had the German citizenship, he would be eligible to play for Germany, I believe.
Most of the rules where players must have played a certain number of years in a country and so on, only apply if someone changes citizenship, if I am not mistaken.
And since he has never played for either Canada or Germany before, he could be free to choose either one.

But this is just me guessing based on what I could find.

Taken from the IIHF website, according to this he shouldn’t be eligible to play for Germany.

When a player has changed his citizenship or has acquired another citizenship and wants to participate for the first time in an IIHF competition representing the new country he/she must:

• Prove that he has participated for at least two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days) in the national competitions of his new country after his 10th birthday during which period he has neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey within any other country.

 

[Maverick41]

Taken from the IIHF website, according to this he shouldn’t be eligible to play for Germany.

When a player has changed his citizenship or has acquired another citizenship and wants to participate for the first time in an IIHF competition representing the new country he/she must:

• Prove that he has participated for at least two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days) in the national competitions of his new country after his 10th birthday during which period he has neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey within any other country.

But he has never represented another country and he may already have had the German citizenship, so he might not have changed his citizenship or acquired a new one. So I don't think this applies here.

Again, I don't know if this is the case here, but if he has had the German citizenship from birth and never lost it, then he could play for Germany even if he never played 16 consecutive months here. At least that is my understanding.

 

[Maverick41]

KADER FÜR JUNI LEHRGANG IN FÜSSEN (Stand: 27.05.2022):

Pos.	Nr.	Name	Vorname	Geb.-Dat.	Verein 2022/2023
GK	29	Bugl	Florian	14.05.2002	Straubing Tigers
GK	31	Lunemann	Niklas	27.04.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
GK	30	Quapp	Nikita	25.01.2003	Eisbären Berlin
DF	20	van der Linde	Leon	13.03.2003	ESV Kaufbeuren
DF	16	Dziambor	Arkadiusz	31.01.2002	Adler Mannheim/Heilbronner Falken
DF	5	Wäser	Julian	27.03.2003	Eisbären Berlin/Lausitzer Füchse
DF	22	Glötzl	Maximilian	16.05.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
DF	28	Klein	Adrian	19.09.2003	Straubing Tigers/EV Landshut
DF	2	Elten	Nils	12.06.2003	Iserlohn Roosters/Herner EV Miners
DF	11	Geibel	Korbinian	08.07.2002	Lausitzer Füchse
DF	4	Szuber	Maksymilian	25.08.2002	Red Bull München
FW	24	Blank	Alexander	04.02.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	14	Cimmerman	Sebastian	14.02.2003	Red Bull München
FW	17	Proske	Yannick	10.06.2003	Spokane Chiefs/Iserlohn Roosters
FW	19	Hänelt	Haakon	01.06.2003	Olympiques d Gatineau
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	6	Heigl	Nikolaus	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	13	Del Monte	Ryan	03.04.2003	Barrie Colts
FW	18	Eham	Josef	29.07.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	7	Elias	Florian	07.08.2002	Schwenninger Wild Wings
FW	23	Heigl	Thomas	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	10	Leonhardt	Danjo	22.08.2002	Nürnberg Ice Tigers
FW	21	Hauf	Luca	11.01.2004	Löwen Frankfurt
FW	27	Roßmy	Bennet	01.08.2003	Eisbären Berlin
FW	12	Rutkowski	Maciej	02.10.2002	Iserlohn Roosters
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	26	Schweiger	Markus	31.08.2002	ESV Kaufbeuren
FW	9	Volek	Justin	08.02.2002	Augsburger Panther

Link: U20-Nationalmannschaft | Deutscher Eishockey-Bund e.V.

They made a mistake there. I know there are many Samanski brothers, but I still think there is only one Joshua.
I wonder if they just listed him twice so it is 16 instead of 17 forwards, or if there is someone missing.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Odd that Lutz wasn't put on the shortlist of players, anyone know why?

 

[Chompskiii]

But he has never represented another country and he may already have had the German citizenship, so he might not have changed his citizenship or acquired a new one. So I don't think this applies here.

Again, I don't know if this is the case here, but if he has had the German citizenship from birth and never lost it, then he could play for Germany even if he never played 16 consecutive months here. At least that is my understanding.

It doesn’t matter when you got it, if you have two citizenships these rules apply.

If he had played for Canada, then it would have been 4 years instead of 16 months

It is dumb, but that’s just how it is.

The DEB could have also submitted an eligibility application and it got approved, we’ll never know.

 

[ilvins]

Odd that Lutz wasn't put on the shortlist of players, anyone know why?

Lutz is at NHL draft combine in Buffalo, so that may be the reason.

 

[Halfdan]

@Chapin Landvogt

The different standards applied to different players are always amazing to me. As soon as someone flits light-footed across the ice, all the other little things are overlooked. More ponderous players, on the other hand, get every little mistake held up to them. Münzenberger has really earned his status, but he doesn't make any fewer mistakes than a Glötzl. Just different ones. We are discussing players in development here and neither of them is the next Seider or Stützle.

Basically, my opinion doesn't matter. As I always say so beautifully: 10 coaches, 15 opinions. Why should it be different when judging players in a different circle of people? If everyone had the same opinion, then everyone would want the same players and the pool of available players would consequently melt away because there would be no perspective for them.

I also don't know if every player thinks the NHL is desirable. Surely they all once had the childhood dream, but as a hockey proifi it can live well in Germany. You certainly won't get rich doing it, but it pays well and you live with less pressure to perform and less travel stress in a safe country. 99.9% of the people in this forum will see it differently, but what's the harm if NHL lovers read a different point of view for once?

The last paragraph in a nutshell: We don't wait in Germany for American and Canadian soccer players and the NHL doesn't wait for German hockey players. Exceptions prove the rule.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

KADER FÜR JUNI LEHRGANG IN FÜSSEN (Stand: 27.05.2022):

Pos.	Nr.	Name	Vorname	Geb.-Dat.	Verein 2022/2023
GK	29	Bugl	Florian	14.05.2002	Straubing Tigers
GK	31	Lunemann	Niklas	27.04.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
GK	30	Quapp	Nikita	25.01.2003	Eisbären Berlin
DF	20	van der Linde	Leon	13.03.2003	ESV Kaufbeuren
DF	16	Dziambor	Arkadiusz	31.01.2002	Adler Mannheim/Heilbronner Falken
DF	5	Wäser	Julian	27.03.2003	Eisbären Berlin/Lausitzer Füchse
DF	22	Glötzl	Maximilian	16.05.2002	Kölner Haie/EC Bad Nauheim
DF	28	Klein	Adrian	19.09.2003	Straubing Tigers/EV Landshut
DF	2	Elten	Nils	12.06.2003	Iserlohn Roosters/Herner EV Miners
DF	11	Geibel	Korbinian	08.07.2002	Lausitzer Füchse
DF	4	Szuber	Maksymilian	25.08.2002	Red Bull München
FW	24	Blank	Alexander	04.02.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	14	Cimmerman	Sebastian	14.02.2003	Red Bull München
FW	17	Proske	Yannick	10.06.2003	Spokane Chiefs/Iserlohn Roosters
FW	19	Hänelt	Haakon	01.06.2003	Olympiques d Gatineau
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	6	Heigl	Nikolaus	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	13	Del Monte	Ryan	03.04.2003	Barrie Colts
FW	18	Eham	Josef	29.07.2002	Düsseldorfer EG
FW	7	Elias	Florian	07.08.2002	Schwenninger Wild Wings
FW	23	Heigl	Thomas	20.01.2003	Red Bull Hockey Akademie
FW	10	Leonhardt	Danjo	22.08.2002	Nürnberg Ice Tigers
FW	21	Hauf	Luca	11.01.2004	Löwen Frankfurt
FW	27	Roßmy	Bennet	01.08.2003	Eisbären Berlin
FW	12	Rutkowski	Maciej	02.10.2002	Iserlohn Roosters
FW	8	Samanski	Joshua	22.03.2002	Straubing Tigers
FW	26	Schweiger	Markus	31.08.2002	ESV Kaufbeuren
FW	9	Volek	Justin	08.02.2002	Augsburger Panther

Link: U20-Nationalmannschaft | Deutscher Eishockey-Bund e.V.

Many thanks!

Surprised I didn't notice that... That link is the first place I looked, but with all the dates at the top still being in 2021, I didn't scroll to the end to see this updated chart.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Taken from the IIHF website, according to this he shouldn’t be eligible to play for Germany.

When a player has changed his citizenship or has acquired another citizenship and wants to participate for the first time in an IIHF competition representing the new country he/she must:

• Prove that he has participated for at least two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days) in the national competitions of his new country after his 10th birthday during which period he has neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey within any other country.

I once found out about this.

Not only was he born in Germany and is a dual citizen, but his first three-four seasons of organized hockey with a player pass took place, uninterrupted, in Germany as well (ages 4-7).

Sidenote:
Not that it plays a role here, but Del Monte also spent the cancelled OHL season with the Hannover Indians in the Oberliga. He was then replaced this season in Hannover with Niko Selivanov, another very interesting story.

They made a mistake there. I know there are many Samanski brothers, but I still think there is only one Joshua.
I wonder if they just listed him twice so it is 16 instead of 17 forwards, or if there is someone missing.

No mistake.

They just think Josh Samanski is so good, he deserved two invitations...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Whether or not his way leads to the NHL at some point or maybe another European league that is stronger than the DEL, who knows, but I also believe he will make his way and I expect him to become a mainstay on the national team before too long.

It'll be interesting to follow.

Glötzl kind of reminds me a bit of Tim Bender and Max Gläßl at that age.

Not necessarily style-wise exactly, but from an expectations standpoint. I can imagine his career trajectory in Germany will be a bit similar to one of these guys.

 

[Maverick41]

Many thanks!

Surprised I didn't notice that... That link is the first place I looked, but with all the dates at the top still being in 2021, I didn't scroll to the end to see this updated chart.

It's easy to overlook this. In the past they usually had short articles on the homepage whenever any rosters were assembled for tournaments or training camps and the like. Now they mostly just update the rosters on the page of the respective team, so you have to check back every now and then and scroll down to the latest roster.

 

[Halfdan]

Florian Elias has cancelled for the WJC. He is concentrating on his new team.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Will Peterka and Reichel suit up?

 

[Halfdan]

The probability is zero.

 

[salamandra]

Maverick, Halfdan and others...

Could you briegly compare players born between years 00-07? Thanks for your time...

 

[Maverick41]

Maverick, Halfdan and others...

Could you briegly compare players born between years 00-07? Thanks for your time...

Before I get into this.
Are you looking for a ranking of the different years, which was/will be the strongest year, or are you looking for a ranking of the best players born from 2000 to 2007?
Either way it will take me anywhere from a couple of days to a week, depending on how much work I have to do at my job.

 

[salamandra]

Before I get into this.
Are you looking for a ranking of the different years, which was/will be the strongest year, or are you looking for a ranking of the best players born from 2000 to 2007?
Either way it will take me anywhere from a couple of days to a week, depending on how much work I have to do at my job.

I mean ranking of the different years, compare depth and best players ... But if you do not any time, so lets just drop it.

 

[Maverick41]

I mean ranking of the different years, compare depth and best players ... But if you do not any time, so lets just drop it.

Nah, your question peaked my own curiosity to really look into this. And while I don't have the time for a really deep dive, I'll share my initial thoughts after a little bit of research (don' be fooled, this is going to be a long post).

First off, I made two groups out of it since it is still very early and difficult to evaluate the kids born in 05, 06 and 07.

About my approach:
I did not just look at the best players from each year regardless of position, but I wanted to take depth and balance into account as well. So I looked at the best 6 forwards, 3 defensemen and 1 goalie from each year and compared how they match up.
Since there is a lot more clarity on the older players than on the younger one, I tried to take into account how I viewed them back when they were in their draft years. I am not sure how well I managed this.

Based on this approach I would rank 2000-2004 like this:

1. 2002:
Obvious choice. A little weaker in goal, and defense is only very good, but not great, but the forwards are just insane

2. 2000:
After a clear gap the next three are fairly close. Despite Bokk not living up to his hype (he was still pretty good) their forward group was fairly solid and the defense was not as bad as I had originally feared. Also Hane was and is a solid goalie

3. 2004:
This was difficult, since I have looked far more closely into a lot of 2004 players than any of the other years, which might skew my perspective in their favor a bit. Lutz is really good and the depth behind him is not terrible. The defense looks pretty bad, but there could be a couple ofgood goalies.

4. 2001:
This was also really tricky for one reason, because frankly 2001 sucked for the most part. The forward group was underwhelming and the defense was Seider and well, that's about it. Of course Seider alone is almost good enough to lift this group past 2004 and possibly 2000. And Ancicka is a good goalie as well, but in the end I still ended up ranking them 4th because there is just no balance.

5. 2003:
Just like 2002 was the obvious number 1, 2003 is the obvious number 5. There are a couple decent forwards (Proske, Hänelt, Roßmy), but nothing on defense. Even a goalie with lots of potential like Quapp cannot make up for that, not even close.


So, now for the upcoming ones:
I really like 2005 and 2006 (especially 2005), but I don't have a good read on 2007 yet, so I am not really sure where to put them. For now the ranking of these three vintages is:
1. 2005
2. 2006
3. 2007
But this could change once I get more viewings of these kids, in particular the 2007 ones.

If I were to take a guess at a combined ranking this would be it:

1. 2002
2. 2005
3. 2006
4. 2000
5. 2004
6. 2001
7. 2007
8. 2003

2005 looks pretty good right now. Definitely not 2002 level good, but good.

The defense in particular looks more promising than any recent memory with Tropmann and Mayer being the standouts.

Forwards are slightly more of a question mark. But while they still are a far cry from what 2002 had, there seems to be solid depth and guys like Vinzens, Sumpf, Ruckdäschel and Fischer still look to be as good or better than anything we have seen since the 1995 group, except of course 2002 .

Goalies are always tricky for me, but I like what I have seen so far from guys like Willerscheid and Pertuch.


2006 appears to be more balanced but still weaker at every position than 2005. So there is a clear gap and I was not entirely sure if I should rank them just ahead of 2000 or just behind.

The forward position has decent depth and I like Seeger and Herzog in particular.

On defense the situation seems similar. I am very intrigued by Rio Kaiser and there are some others that look promising so far, but no real stand outs.

In goal Erik Eder was one of my early favorites, but I really don't know enough about this goalie class yet, to give a good evaluation.


2007 I am really not comfortable making any predictions about this class.

Among forwards I like Kessler and Späth and there are bunch of others that I am very curious about. This could very well turn into one of the better forward groups, but it is too soon to tell.

On defense I have really only one player that I am somewhat confident will turn into a decent prospect (Carlos Händel), but it is too soon to write the others off, especially since there a still a lot of them I have not even seen once.

As far as goalies born in 2007 are concerned I can honestly say, that I don't even know anything about them. I have no idea who is the head of the class so to speak, so that's that.

To anybody who has bothered to read this all the way through. Thank you, and I am impressed.