Roster Moves: 2021 Roster Thread XXV: Extended Qualifying Offers to Bunnaman, Hart, Kase, Sanheim; Morin re-signed

[TB87]

You, Shelly, Cap, and Bunny’s mom should double date.

That Steve guy at the top is really cool too fwiw. That’s a big like.

Steve’s your real name isn’t it?

 

[deadhead]

Unsure why you've left a 3 year gap of Carter's prime in LA to favor decline years that weren't his best. You included one of his best years and then stuck mostly with decline, while also ignoring his 25 points in 26 playoff games en route to a Cup, too. Why?

at 27: 55g, 21 ES points
at 28: 48g, 23 ES points
that big season was at 29 years old, the first of the 4 years I presented.

It's clear he was the same player in LA he was in Philly.

 

[Magua]

Steve’s your real name isn’t it?

Multiple sources are reporting it is not.

 

[Beef Invictus]

at 27: 55g, 21 ES points
at 28: 48g, 23 ES points
that big season was at 29 years old, the first of the 4 years I presented.

It's clear he was the same player in LA he was in Philly.

Are you remembering to account for LA being a less offensively-oriented team the whole time?

 

[deadhead]

Are you remembering to account for LA being a less offensively-oriented team the whole time?

Nitpicking.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nitpicking.

It's actually really important. That kind of thing matters a lot. You should check out how routinely players receive a sizable offensive bump once they leave LA, and it's gone on forever.

They certainly have an identity that they've stuck to

 

[deadhead]

It's actually really important. That kind of thing matters a lot. You should check out how routinely players receive a sizable offensive bump once they leave LA, and it's gone on forever.

But he scored more in Philly, so that's already baked in.
Point is there's no emergence to point to as a negative Philly effect.

I expect Myers to player better in Nashville b/c Josi or Ekholm are better than Sanheim. He needs a veteran to hold his hand.
I expect Ghost to be meh in Arizona b/c as his skills erode, he needs to be sheltered and he's going to be forced into a top 4 role.
I expect Voracek to continue scoring in CBJ, especially on a line with Laine, but his defense will remain below average or worse, and at some point in a year or two, as he loses speed, he's going to be exposed as a declining finesse forward.
Patrick??? Who knows?

 

[lancer247]

I see Ghost career ceiling as a poor man’s JM Liles. Hopefully he stays healthy and has a good season but I think he’ll just bounce around the league on one year deals.
Hopefully he’ll catch fire and catch on somewhere but I think the league has caught up to his fastball and he isn’t very good defensively so he’ll need to be on a team that can get him favorable matchups and PP time.

 

[Flyerfan18]

By the numbers Dom at the Athletic has us with the 8th best off-season. So I guess the numbers back up the eye test that Fletcher did a hell of a job improving this team in the past month.

He doesn’t like the Risto move but says the numbers add up from the other moves among other things.

 

[Starat327]

@Hollywood Couturier someone from season tickets called me today. I basically laughed him into hanging up the phone.

"Aren't you excited about the changed being made to the roster?"

"You mean the ones where we replace good players with bad ones?"

"No, come on, there's a lot of leadersh-"


"Let me stop you right there, Jake. I don't watch hockey for leadership, and this team is going nowhere. I'm not even sure you could convince me to watch a game on TV at this point."

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Hollywood Couturier someone from season tickets called me today. I basically laughed him into hanging up the phone.

"Aren't you excited about the changed being made to the roster?"

"You mean the ones where we replace good players with bad ones?"

"No, come on, there's a lot of leadersh-"


"Let me stop you right there, Jake. I don't watch hockey for leadership, and this team is going nowhere. I'm not even sure you could convince me to watch a game on TV at this point."

Blah, you got me to click on it since I remembered I said I would respond to only posts that I was tagged in.

You should have just told them that your BFFFFFFF already has season tickets that would stop them from calling.

Oh wait, no it wouldn't. When our business had a suite I told them that when they called me asking if I wanted to sign back up... they said "oh, ok" and proceeded to call me back every month after asking me.

 

[Chinatown88]

@Hollywood Couturier someone from season tickets called me today. I basically laughed him into hanging up the phone.

"Aren't you excited about the changed being made to the roster?"

"You mean the ones where we replace good players with bad ones?"

"No, come on, there's a lot of leadersh-"


"Let me stop you right there, Jake. I don't watch hockey for leadership, and this team is going nowhere. I'm not even sure you could convince me to watch a game on TV at this point."

 

[deadhead]

By the numbers Dom at the Athletic has us with the 8th best off-season. So I guess the numbers back up the eye test that Fletcher did a hell of a job improving this team in the past month.

He doesn’t like the Risto move but says the numbers add up from the other moves among other things.

Risto was an overpay, but Risto/Myers is a similar gamble except Myers already struggled here, whereas Risto was buried in Buffalo.

Ghost/Yandle are similar players, Ghost is better but his 2 years at $4.5M would have been a real block to York and Zamula, whereas it's easy to waive or send Yandle down to LHV to bury his salary if needed.

Ellis is a clear upgrade, an elite offensive defenseman who plays solid defense and can be the mentor the young D-men will need the next few years (York, Zamula, Hogberg, Wylie, Millman, St Ivany, Attard, Andrae and of course Ginning!).

Atkinson isn't as good as Voracek, but a much better fit, he can play on any of the top three lines and fits Hayes and Frost since he isn't "puck dependent."

Thompson is this year's version of Andreoff, veteran 13th forward who is the "canary in the coal mine" - if he plays it's going to be due to a series of injuries to better players, and LHV prospects failing to step up.

Jones is an upgrade over Elliott, a one year stopgap for the young goalies in the organization, but they need one to step up, whether it's Ersson/Fedotov showing they'll be ready in 2022-23, or Ustimenko/Sandstrom shining at LHV.

Overall, the organization lost net assets/talent, but improved chemistry, fit and opened opportunity for the next wave of prospects. This should be the deepest LHV team since ??? and even deeper next year if they sign most of the college players.

The key is it's time for the young players Hextall drafted between 2014 and 2018 to arrive and make a difference.

Guys like TK, Farabee, Lindblom, Allison need to push G, Couts, Hayes, JVR, Laughton and Atkinson. Players like Laczynski, NAK, J Cates, Bunnaman need to provide bottom six players who aren't liabilities. York and Zamula need to push Yandle and Braun out of the lineup, and Morin, Hogberg, Wylie and Millman develop enough to provide injury insurance.

And Hart has to find his mojo.

 

[Starat327]

Blah, you got me to click on it since I remembered I said I would respond to only posts that I was tagged in.

You should have just told them that your BFFFFFFF already has season tickets that would stop them from calling.

Oh wait, no it wouldn't. When our business had a suite I told them that when they called me asking if I wanted to sign back up... they said "oh, ok" and proceeded to call me back every month after asking me.

Yeah, I usually just ignore it, it's always a 389 number, so it's easy to tell -but this time I was feeling froggy.

 

[Larry44]

View attachment 459414



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Sanheim’s mom liked my tweet

What am I, chopped liver? Oy vey!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't get the "Ristolainen was an overpay" angle.

All they gave up was the 13th pick in a lousy draft (Isak Rosen) and a 2nd round pick.

Tampa traded a first round pick and a third round pick for a playoff rental of David Savard.

 

[TB87]

What am I, chopped liver? Oy vey!

I wasn’t sure if that Twitter handle was you. Now I know!

 

[ponder719]

I don't get the "Ristolainen was an overpay" angle.

All they gave up was the 13th pick in a lousy draft (Isak Rosen) and a 2nd round pick.

Tampa traded a first round pick and a third round pick for a playoff rental of David Savard.

The major disconnect is that you think Ristolainen is a good defenseman. His analytics indicate he's basically Tall Hägg. His results on ice suggest he's Gudas. Neither of those things is worth a #1, a #2, and the move required to open up cap space for him (Ghost, a #2, and a #7 for absolutely nothing; plus we gave up Hägg, no loss in my opinion but still potentially of value in another deal.)

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't get the "Ristolainen was an overpay" angle.

All they gave up was the 13th pick in a lousy draft (Isak Rosen) and a 2nd round pick.

Tampa traded a first round pick and a third round pick for a playoff rental of David Savard.

Tampa traded a third, plus a first rounder that was very likely to be near the bottom of the first round, and ended up being the 31st overall. And they got 50% retention via Detroit for an extra 4th.

David Savard Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

For the 13th overall plus a 2nd plus Hagg, it's incomprehensible that Buffalo retained nothing on Ristolainen. They are still $28m under the ceiling.

 

[wasup]

Risto was an overpay, but Risto/Myers is a similar gamble except Myers already struggled here, whereas Risto was buried in Buffalo.

Ghost/Yandle are similar players, Ghost is better but his 2 years at $4.5M would have been a real block to York and Zamula, whereas it's easy to waive or send Yandle down to LHV to bury his salary if needed.

Ellis is a clear upgrade, an elite offensive defenseman who plays solid defense and can be the mentor the young D-men will need the next few years (York, Zamula, Hogberg, Wylie, Millman, St Ivany, Attard, Andrae and of course Ginning!).

Atkinson isn't as good as Voracek, but a much better fit, he can play on any of the top three lines and fits Hayes and Frost since he isn't "puck dependent."

Thompson is this year's version of Andreoff, veteran 13th forward who is the "canary in the coal mine" - if he plays it's going to be due to a series of injuries to better players, and LHV prospects failing to step up.

Jones is an upgrade over Elliott, a one year stopgap for the young goalies in the organization, but they need one to step up, whether it's Ersson/Fedotov showing they'll be ready in 2022-23, or Ustimenko/Sandstrom shining at LHV.

Overall, the organization lost net assets/talent, but improved chemistry, fit and opened opportunity for the next wave of prospects. This should be the deepest LHV team since ??? and even deeper next year if they sign most of the college players.

The key is it's time for the young players Hextall drafted between 2014 and 2018 to arrive and make a difference.

Guys like TK, Farabee, Lindblom, Allison need to push G, Couts, Hayes, JVR, Laughton and Atkinson. Players like Laczynski, NAK, J Cates, Bunnaman need to provide bottom six players who aren't liabilities. York and Zamula need to push Yandle and Braun out of the lineup, and Morin, Hogberg, Wylie and Millman develop enough to provide injury insurance.

And Hart has to find his mojo.

But it is not cool or popular to be optimistic you have to be pessimistic , mad , your life is over , where's the fricken rope I need to hang myself . All HF board sites are the same , if you are winning bring on the Stanley Cup and if you are losing the endless bitching is relentless . I have been on Montreal's site a few times this last year and the negativity was over the top half two thirds thru but after the first round wow all of a sudden everybody was world beaters .

It's no different on here . Now a few of the moves I like and a few not so much so but as a whole I see a net positive . Most of my hope is that we have a bounce back by some of own players and couple that with the a few of the positive moves and we will have a marked improvement . Now do I think we will win the Stanley Cup 'no" but I think we could have a competitive team and that all I ask for .

 

[BernieParent]

Risto was an overpay, but Risto/Myers is a similar gamble except Myers already struggled here, whereas Risto was buried in Buffalo.

This is where your posts sometimes confuse me, dead. Myers, young and still growing into his game, struggled in a single season you frequently attributed as a wash season due to COVID. He isn't a similar gamble to a player with multiple seasons of bad play that exceeded the bad play of other members of a bad team.

Ghost/Yandle are similar players, Ghost is better but his 2 years at $4.5M would have been a real block to York and Zamula, whereas it's easy to waive or send Yandle down to LHV to bury his salary if needed.

I can't disagree with the cap situation and the flexibility that Yandle's dirt-cheap salary affords. While easy to waive/demote Yandle, every sign since his acquisition points to him being part of the lineup, not to mention his ongoing pursuit of the ironman streak. With Yandle and Hayes making the (social) media circuit, this seems to be a club narrative to promote the Flyers back into fan interest, which raises the question of whether Yandle's spot in the roster is 100% based on on-ice performance.

Thompson is this year's version of Andreoff, veteran 13th forward who is the "canary in the coal mine" - if he plays it's going to be due to a series of injuries to better players, and LHV prospects failing to step up.

Roll the tape of Thompson's overuse in the 2019-20 playoffs. He will get serious minutes.

Jones is an upgrade over Elliott, a one year stopgap for the young goalies in the organization, but they need one to step up, whether it's Ersson/Fedotov showing they'll be ready in 2022-23, or Ustimenko/Sandstrom shining at LHV.

It remains unseen whether Jones is indeed an upgrade. Elliott's issue is age, but he provided better than adequate backup stats when he didn't have to play the starter's role. An upgrade was definitely needed, particularly to help Hart re-mojo himself. Jones is bad.

Guys like TK, Farabee, Lindblom, Allison need to push G, Couts, Hayes, JVR, Laughton and Atkinson. Players like Laczynski, NAK, J Cates, Bunnaman need to provide bottom six players who aren't liabilities. York and Zamula need to push Yandle and Braun out of the lineup, and Morin, Hogberg, Wylie and Millman develop enough to provide injury insurance.

And Hart has to find his mojo.

I like to finish on points where we agree; however, York and Zamula need opportunity to push Yandle and Braun out of the lineup.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

imagine thinking its possible that Yandle will see AHL time..

hahaaaa...

 

[CapnZin]

Is it okay that I’m legitimately scared AV will start Laughton as the 3C and Thompson as the 4C… both over Frost. I feel like that’s gonna happen and I’m scared.

 

[FlyTimmo]

imagine thinking its possible that Yandle will see AHL time..

hahaaaa...

You can pencil him in on that 3rd pair next to Braun. No matter how poor he does in preseason it doesn't matter. He'll play.

 

[deadhead]

This is where your posts sometimes confuse me, dead. Myers, young and still growing into his game, struggled in a single season you frequently attributed as a wash season due to COVID. He isn't a similar gamble to a player with multiple seasons of bad play that exceeded the bad play of other members of a bad team.

Myers struggled as a rookie with Ghost, and in the 2019-20 playoffs and in 2020-21.
There is a lot of upside, but also some real question marks (durability, hockey IQ).
Risto is only 2 years older, so it's not like they moved out a young prospect for an aging veteran.

I can't disagree with the cap situation and the flexibility that Yandle's dirt-cheap salary affords. While easy to waive/demote Yandle, every sign since his acquisition points to him being part of the lineup, not to mention his ongoing pursuit of the ironman streak. With Yandle and Hayes making the (social) media circuit, this seems to be a club narrative to promote the Flyers back into fan interest, which raises the question of whether Yandle's spot in the roster is 100% based on on-ice performance.

Money talks, bullshit walks. They're paying him like a 7th D-man, compare to what they paid Braun.

It remains unseen whether Jones is indeed an upgrade. Elliott's issue is age, but he provided better than adequate backup stats when he didn't have to play the starter's role. An upgrade was definitely needed, particularly to help Hart re-mojo himself. Jones is bad.

Elliott started strong, but quickly faded, Jones is used to a starter workload, and may thrive with a much lighter workload, as we've seen with other overworked goalies (4 years of 60+ starts, 75 of 126 the last two years). Elliot can't play more than once a week.