2021 Expansion Draft Discussion

MissouriMook

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No way he gets 7.5 x 7. My guess is he gets same or less than Schenn.
I agree on the AAV, and he might end up with even less term given his injury history. Schwartz has proven time and time again that he is the motor that the offense runs off of, and we are a worse team each time he has been out of the lineup, so I can't see him getting less than Schenn even if Schenn is getting paid as a center. My guess is either 6 or 7 years at $6.5M AAV with a full NTC.
 

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I think a handshake deal with Schwartz is pretty wishful thinking. For starters, I'm not sure what incentive Schwartz has to do that. Every player is one bad hit away from their career being permanently damaged. Let's say that there is a handshake deal for a contract worth $35M. Schwartz goes into the boards terribly and breaks his femur a week later. How confident are you that the Blues honor that deal? Are you willing to bet $20M or so that Army will honor that handshake deal?

Let's say you do value Army's word at around $20M and are willing to make that bet. What is the incentive to lock yourself into that contract? If you get exposed in the expansion draft, Seattle has a week to negotiate a contract with you before the expansion draft. What if they call your agent and offer you $45M? Do you honor your own word at the expense of $10M? Bear in mind, you can't tell them that you have a deal with the Blues as doing so would create a pretty open and shut case of cap circumvention.

There is absolutely an avenue where you expose Schwartz and both sides keep the possibility of an extension open if he doesn't find a better offer on the open market (and "better" includes whatever value staying in St. Louis has to Schwartz). But there is zero incentive for Schwartz to promise not to explore the market while continuing to risk an injury that causes that promised-extension to evaporate. He and his agent would have zero legal recourse if the Blues declined to honor a handshake deal, so that risk is completely tangible.

If I were Schwartz, I would laugh in Army's face if he suggested that I risk tens of millions of dollars so that the team can protect one extra depth forward. If I was willing to negotiate after that, my starting point would be a full NMC for the duration of the contract. After all, if I'm taking on this risk for the team, then I need some assurance that I'm on this team for the duration of the contract. That is a defined non-starter for Army, so that would pretty much end negotiations about a handshake deal.
 

joe galiba

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Apr 16, 2020
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I am not interested in ANY handshake deals, if you want the player sign him
not worth losing him, certainly not worth the league shafting us for tampering - we have been down that road
 
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Zamadoo

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No way he gets 7.5 x 7. My guess is he gets same or less than Schenn.
I think he will get nearly the exact same contract as Schenn from the Blues. He will likely be looking for a contract at or above $7.5m AAV from a different team if unsigned before the expansion draft. Career .70 PPG, +80, 18min/G in all situations on Cup Champs, and outstanding TK/GV ratio. Quite the playoff performer, I wonder if WIN would have interest?
 

Zamadoo

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Apr 4, 2013
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I think a handshake deal with Schwartz is pretty wishful thinking. For starters, I'm not sure what incentive Schwartz has to do that. Every player is one bad hit away from their career being permanently damaged. Let's say that there is a handshake deal for a contract worth $35M. Schwartz goes into the boards terribly and breaks his femur a week later. How confident are you that the Blues honor that deal? Are you willing to bet $20M or so that Army will honor that handshake deal?

Let's say you do value Army's word at around $20M and are willing to make that bet. What is the incentive to lock yourself into that contract? If you get exposed in the expansion draft, Seattle has a week to negotiate a contract with you before the expansion draft. What if they call your agent and offer you $45M? Do you honor your own word at the expense of $10M? Bear in mind, you can't tell them that you have a deal with the Blues as doing so would create a pretty open and shut case of cap circumvention.

There is absolutely an avenue where you expose Schwartz and both sides keep the possibility of an extension open if he doesn't find a better offer on the open market (and "better" includes whatever value staying in St. Louis has to Schwartz). But there is zero incentive for Schwartz to promise not to explore the market while continuing to risk an injury that causes that promised-extension to evaporate. He and his agent would have zero legal recourse if the Blues declined to honor a handshake deal, so that risk is completely tangible.

If I were Schwartz, I would laugh in Army's face if he suggested that I risk tens of millions of dollars so that the team can protect one extra depth forward. If I was willing to negotiate after that, my starting point would be a full NMC for the duration of the contract. After all, if I'm taking on this risk for the team, then I need some assurance that I'm on this team for the duration of the contract. That is a defined non-starter for Army, so that would pretty much end negotiations about a handshake deal.
This is why I think the Blues will try to sign him before the expansion and either expose another high contract or other quality players.

Schwartz is one of the most important players on the team, and by my assessment is more valuable to us than Krug, Dunn, or any bottom 6/bottom pairing role players who might be exposed otherwise.
 
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Ted Hoffman

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No way he gets 7.5 x 7. My guess is he gets same or less than Schenn.
Same at worst. We've seen what this team looks like with and without Schwartz: it's night and day. No way in hell if I'm Schwartz would I dream of signing for less than Schenn, especially since I've been here my entire career and Schenn got handed 8/52 after just 2 years here and almost a full season before he would have become UFA.
 

RainyCityHockey

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Hey guys, Seattle Fan here.
Solid discussion you guys have and it will be interesting to see who we end up taking from you guys.

THIS ^^^^

I think they will have a "handshake agreement" (similar money to Schenn deal), but not sign it until after the expansion draft. No extension with Schwartz will allow you to protect one extra player whether it is Sunny, Barbashev, Blais, or Sanford.

Seattle won't waste a pick on a UFA that could sign elsewhere he wants to.

Just a little reminder on the bold part.

Expansion rosters will have to be exposed on July 17th, while the expansion draft will be held on July 21st.

During that four day window Seattle can negotiate with any UFA and RFA exposed on those lists(but can only take one player per team).
Because of that I doubt we'll take any UFA that doesn't sign a contract extension before the expansion draft.
 

Ranksu

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Could there be possibility if Army and Parayko goes discussion that Parayko doesnt want to resign with Blues we left him exposed? Or you rather protect him knowing he doesnt resign and trade him at offseason or TDL?
 

Blueston

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Could there be possibility if Army and Parayko goes discussion that Parayko doesnt want to resign with Blues we left him exposed? Or you rather protect him knowing he doesnt resign and trade him at offseason or TDL?
No way we leave him exposed. No indication he doesn't want to resign. If that happens, we could trade him but I would be shocked if it came to that.
 
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WATTAGE4451

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There's really only two D-man I'd protect. Parayko and Faulk. Out of everyone else I'd pick Krug. Dunn is way too inconsistent, Mikkola, Scandella, and Bortuzzo won't be chosen.

Out of our forwards and defense Dunn is the most likely to be chosen. Young LHD, RFA, top 4 potential, Stanley Cup winning experience, and can play as a PPQB.

Sunny coming off of a ACL tear will have seattle look away from him, Blais, Barbie, and Sanford don't have the potential to be a picked over Dunn.
Id protect dunn over krigg just because of contract. Krug is a bad contract that id like to get out of. Dunns a rfa and his contract wont be that crippling
 

Ted Hoffman

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Could there be possibility if Army and Parayko goes discussion that Parayko doesnt want to resign with Blues we left him exposed? Or you rather protect him knowing he doesnt resign and trade him at offseason or TDL?
No way we leave him exposed. No indication he doesn't want to resign. If that happens, we could trade him but I would be shocked if it came to that.
Agreed. If Parayko gets exposed, it'll be because he's injured that badly and not because Armstrong is miffed about possible contract talks. Parayko doesn't want to stick around? He'll be gone before that contract expires unless we're thisclose to repeating 2019.
 

puckerdude10

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From looking at other teams and their lists I actually think most teams have a better selection of D exposed than forwards. Also their are a fair number of UFA D that could be enticed to go to Seattle for playing time and increased role/money. With that in mind I wonder if we could entice Seattle to select a forward with a pick added on to ensure they take that player/leave certain players alone. My vote is Sanford.

My protection list:
Thomas
Kyrou
Schenn
Tarasenko
ROR
Sundqvist

and Perron/Barbeshev

Parayko
Faulk
Krug

Kostin is exempt. Schwartz, Hoffman and Bozak are UFA's so they don't need protection. Yes Seattle could sign them but I doubt that happens with Schwartz who is the most important. Bozak seems to love it here and I could see coming back on a cheap deal so he doesn't have to move his young family. Hoffman might get traded at deadline or could walk in UFA either way I doubt he is back.

I don't want to lose either of Perron of Barbie as I think both are very important to this team. If Seattle wants some consistency they might get scared away by only 1 year on Perrons deal. If we could use that to protect Barbeshev and leave Perron exposed and they didn't take him that would be ideal. May be wishful thinking but it would be nice.

What I would hope to do is offer Sanford and a 2nd or 3rd so they select him. Gives them a young cost controlled middle 6 winger who has shown flashes of potential but struggles with consistency and fighting through our depth. Might flourish with a change of scenery and more of an opportunity.

Could also do Blais but I think Sanford may be more appealing to Seattle. In either case these guys could be like William Karlson or Reilly Smith or Jonathon Marchessault were for vegas. Not exact comparisons but guys that broke out with a new offensive opportunity.

Yes it hurts to lose a pick but it keeps are most important pieces intact and we could use Dunn to recoup picks in another deal or get a righty lefty rebalance. I think Mikkola can play full time next year and walman will be on a 1 way and can be a 6th or 7th dman. Plus Perunavich could get a sniff but I personally would rather see him in the AHL getting top minutes and special teams.

I know Dunn may be a better asset than Sanford or Blais but teams like Columbus, Montreal, Tampa Bay, Vegas, Calgary etc. have some solid names on D and/ young up and coming talent that needs protection. Even Buffalo seems to have better options at D than at forward for Seattle to take so Dunn may not be the best pick for them. If we can offer a forward and a draft pick to overcome that value I wonder if they would go for it.
 

BadgersandBlues

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I find it hard to envision a future where we don't make a trade and they don't take Dunn. 25 year old Cup winning Dman who's shown he can handle 2nd pairing minutes and run a PP. Plus still an RFA. It's frankly a dream scenario for them.
 

Spear

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I know Dunn may be a better asset than Sanford or Blais but teams like Columbus, Montreal, Tampa Bay, Vegas, Calgary etc. have some solid names on D and/ young up and coming talent that needs protection. Even Buffalo seems to have better options at D than at forward for Seattle to take so Dunn may not be the best pick for them. If we can offer a forward and a draft pick to overcome that value I wonder if they would go for it.

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft.
 
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puckerdude10

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Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft.

Yeah that was a brain fart on my end.

But I think the point still stands, there will be many teams with quality defenseman available and not nearly as many with quality forwards which makes me think there could be a deal made under the right circumstances.
 

finnishflash13

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Thomas and Kyrou have not done enough for me to say they should be locks to be protected. Seems like every year they are poised to breakout then just underwhelm.
 

Davimir Tarablad

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Thomas and Kyrou have not done enough for me to say they should be locks to be protected. Seems like every year they are poised to breakout then just underwhelm.
Kyrou is currently tied for 3rd on the team in scoring(and is 2nd in even strength scoring)
And while Thomas certainly hasn't been great this season, he's the youngest player on the roster, and has shown that he's more than capable of being a great player.
Who exactly are you planning to protect over those two?
 
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Thallis

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Thomas and Kyrou have not done enough for me to say they should be locks to be protected. Seems like every year they are poised to breakout then just underwhelm.

pIYsz5x.jpg


I have no idea why you included Kyrou in this post. He's faded a bit recently, but as a whole he's been our best offensive player this season.
 
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Celtic Note

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I have no idea why you included Kyrou in this post. He's faded a bit recently, but as a whole he's been our best offensive player this season.
This just reinforces a lot of what we have been seeing this year. Clifford is not good. Same for Bortuzzo. Sunny was exerting a lot of effort, but it was relatively wasted effort. Etc...
 
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Vincenzo Arelliti

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Clifford is a dumber version of Magnus Paajarvi, it seems. Maybe his physicality becomes a factor in the playoffs, but I've not been happy with him for a while now. If he could bury the puck a little bit more, I'd be happy, but he's not an especially good defensive player and he can't PK very well. His forechecking shows potential, though.
 
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BadgersandBlues

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In a perfect world he's a healthy scratch depth type guy. He hasn't shown enough to a regular fixture in the line-up, especially with our PK woes.
 

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