Better than striking out.
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Celtics/NBA 2021-2022 Regular Season Part 2: Celts Raise #5 to Rafters
- Thread starter smithformeragent
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you make small progress a bunch of times then eventually it will lead to big progress
Maine Fan
Defense Wins Chanpionships
BostonBob
4 Ever The Greatest
UncleRico
Registered User
- May 8, 2017
- 8,295
- 10,693
Schroder has been a much better shooter than white this year. If Pritchard could play effectively he would have been playing more. Right now Pritchard isn’t on Schroder level. I’m not a fan of Schroder and don’t care that he was moved, but he’s a better scorer right now than both white and Pritchard.
Schroder was a solid perimeter defender. He held opponents to 4.1% less than their normal averages from 3pt range which is pretty significant. From all shots against him players scored 0.4% above their averages. So overall he was pretty much a well above average perimeter defender but wasn’t good when he got drove on down the lane where he gave up a 61.6% fg%. However the Celtics lack of a 2nd unit big man certainly didn’t help him out in that regard and many guards struggle with that too.
BostonBob
4 Ever The Greatest
Checking around it looks like the Celtics got mostly high grades for their deals.
Derrick White trade.
from clutchsports.com:
Celtics Grade: A
White is a tremendous replacement for Dennis Schroder, who the Celtics shipped to the Houston Rockets. A defensive tandem of him and Marcus Smart is downright unfair. Boston has been thriving on account of its defense and now boasts two of the best defenders at the guard position in addition to other good defenders like Tatum and Robert Williams.
White is a pesky defender, which will be useful against the great Eastern Conference guards the Celtics may see in the playoffs like James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Darius Garland, Zach LaVine or Tyler Herro.
This season, White is averaging 14.4 points, 5.6 assists and 3.5 rebounds per game. He can provide some offense but may not fit very well with Smart on that end of the floor due to his lackluster perimeter shooting (31.4 percent shooting from beyond the arc). They may have to play their minutes separately until crunch time. Still, White is a great addition for Boston.
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from fansided.com:
Celtics Grade: B
In many ways, this trade was a win-win. The Celtics got help to try to fulfill their championship aspirations and the Spurs got assets to better their rebuild. And White gets to play for a contender.
White is a two-way guard who will bring relentless effort and energy to Boston. His defense is no-joke and he can contribute offensively as well.
Was the price too steep? Boston gave up their first-round pick for 2022 and two players for a role player averaging 14.4 points and a career-high 5.6 assists this season.
Having said that, the Celtics got better through this trade with a player who is better than his stats and has familiarity with Boston’s roster and coaching staff.
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from espn.com:
Celtics Grade: B+
Because of the higher-profile deals before the deadline, the Celtics adding White is likely to fly under the radar. Over the long term, it could be an impact move for a Boston team that quietly sports the Eastern Conference's best point differential at plus-4.7 points per game and is just 4.5 games (albeit six spots) out of first place.
If you're going to give up a first-round pick and swap rights in a trade, it better be for a player in his prime on a favorable contract. White counts: At 27, he should hold most of his value during the remainder of a contract that pays him an average of $17.6 million over the next three seasons.
In terms of box-score stats, White has rated out as an average starting guard. On-off data suggests his value could be even greater. Based on three-year regularized adjusted plus-minus (RAPM) from NBAshotcharts.com, White's impact on the Spurs has ranked just outside the league's top 40 players in that span.
Granting that on/off impact doesn't always travel with a player to a new team and a new role, I like White's fit in Boston. The Celtics can use his playmaking alongside their stars. White is averaging a career-high 5.6 assists per game this season. He's another plus defender on a team full of them on the perimeter and can share ballhandling duties with Marcus Smart.
The only question mark is shooting. After hitting 39% of his spot-up 3s in 2019-20 and 37% last season, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats, White has dipped to 32% so far this season. At that rate, teams will probably feel comfortable helping off him in a playoff series.
For a Boston team that has struggled any time its starters haven't been on the court together, White immediately strengthens the bench and can be a part of the Celtics' core group long-term. Boston is giving up a pick that's likely to fall in the late teens or early 20s (it would be 18th if the season ended today), as well as swap rights down the road, so there is risk here. I think it's worth taking.
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from sbnation.com:
Celtics Grade: A-
The Celtics cashed in their first round pick and salary filler for a guard in Derrick White. The 27-year-old has made a nice leap as a playmaker this season, posting a career-best assist rate, which should help a Boston team in major need of more passing. The Spurs were going nowhere this year, so salvaging a first round pick that should be around No. 20 in exchange for White is nice business by the Spurs. San Antonio should now have three first round picks in this draft with their own, Boston’s, and Toronto’s. If White can lean into being more a connecting piece between Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, this could be a nice win for Boston. White is also a tenacious backcourt defender who should make the Celtics defense even more intimidating.
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from bleacher report.com:
Celtics Grade: B
Boston is getting good mileage out of its assets here. White is a pesky defender who capably guards the point of attack. The Celtics defense has slipped amid their offensive rise, but between him, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart and Robert Williams III, they should regularly make life hell on their opponents.
White's offensive fit is less of a sure thing. He gives the Celtics another ball-handler and tertiary playmaker, but he's knocking down only 31.4 percent of his triples this season. This is the second consecutive year in which he's failed to eclipse 35 percent shooting from downtown.
White's shot quality might go up in Boston, and there is utility in his volume from long range, but Richardson was the team's most efficient non-big from distance this year. The floor may shrink in the half-court with him gone.
In the end, though, you have to appreciate the talent play from the Celtics. They have the bodies to remain a defensive terror and didn't surrender any cornerstone assets. If White hits his threes at a higher clip or can shoulder more of the half-court floor-general burden, Boston will come out of this trade smelling like a rose—and poised to cause a ruckus in a wiiiiide-open Eastern Conference.
Derrick White trade.
from clutchsports.com:
Celtics Grade: A
White is a tremendous replacement for Dennis Schroder, who the Celtics shipped to the Houston Rockets. A defensive tandem of him and Marcus Smart is downright unfair. Boston has been thriving on account of its defense and now boasts two of the best defenders at the guard position in addition to other good defenders like Tatum and Robert Williams.
White is a pesky defender, which will be useful against the great Eastern Conference guards the Celtics may see in the playoffs like James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Darius Garland, Zach LaVine or Tyler Herro.
This season, White is averaging 14.4 points, 5.6 assists and 3.5 rebounds per game. He can provide some offense but may not fit very well with Smart on that end of the floor due to his lackluster perimeter shooting (31.4 percent shooting from beyond the arc). They may have to play their minutes separately until crunch time. Still, White is a great addition for Boston.
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from fansided.com:
Celtics Grade: B
In many ways, this trade was a win-win. The Celtics got help to try to fulfill their championship aspirations and the Spurs got assets to better their rebuild. And White gets to play for a contender.
White is a two-way guard who will bring relentless effort and energy to Boston. His defense is no-joke and he can contribute offensively as well.
Was the price too steep? Boston gave up their first-round pick for 2022 and two players for a role player averaging 14.4 points and a career-high 5.6 assists this season.
Having said that, the Celtics got better through this trade with a player who is better than his stats and has familiarity with Boston’s roster and coaching staff.
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from espn.com:
Celtics Grade: B+
Because of the higher-profile deals before the deadline, the Celtics adding White is likely to fly under the radar. Over the long term, it could be an impact move for a Boston team that quietly sports the Eastern Conference's best point differential at plus-4.7 points per game and is just 4.5 games (albeit six spots) out of first place.
If you're going to give up a first-round pick and swap rights in a trade, it better be for a player in his prime on a favorable contract. White counts: At 27, he should hold most of his value during the remainder of a contract that pays him an average of $17.6 million over the next three seasons.
In terms of box-score stats, White has rated out as an average starting guard. On-off data suggests his value could be even greater. Based on three-year regularized adjusted plus-minus (RAPM) from NBAshotcharts.com, White's impact on the Spurs has ranked just outside the league's top 40 players in that span.
Granting that on/off impact doesn't always travel with a player to a new team and a new role, I like White's fit in Boston. The Celtics can use his playmaking alongside their stars. White is averaging a career-high 5.6 assists per game this season. He's another plus defender on a team full of them on the perimeter and can share ballhandling duties with Marcus Smart.
The only question mark is shooting. After hitting 39% of his spot-up 3s in 2019-20 and 37% last season, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats, White has dipped to 32% so far this season. At that rate, teams will probably feel comfortable helping off him in a playoff series.
For a Boston team that has struggled any time its starters haven't been on the court together, White immediately strengthens the bench and can be a part of the Celtics' core group long-term. Boston is giving up a pick that's likely to fall in the late teens or early 20s (it would be 18th if the season ended today), as well as swap rights down the road, so there is risk here. I think it's worth taking.
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from sbnation.com:
Celtics Grade: A-
The Celtics cashed in their first round pick and salary filler for a guard in Derrick White. The 27-year-old has made a nice leap as a playmaker this season, posting a career-best assist rate, which should help a Boston team in major need of more passing. The Spurs were going nowhere this year, so salvaging a first round pick that should be around No. 20 in exchange for White is nice business by the Spurs. San Antonio should now have three first round picks in this draft with their own, Boston’s, and Toronto’s. If White can lean into being more a connecting piece between Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, this could be a nice win for Boston. White is also a tenacious backcourt defender who should make the Celtics defense even more intimidating.
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from bleacher report.com:
Celtics Grade: B
Boston is getting good mileage out of its assets here. White is a pesky defender who capably guards the point of attack. The Celtics defense has slipped amid their offensive rise, but between him, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart and Robert Williams III, they should regularly make life hell on their opponents.
White's offensive fit is less of a sure thing. He gives the Celtics another ball-handler and tertiary playmaker, but he's knocking down only 31.4 percent of his triples this season. This is the second consecutive year in which he's failed to eclipse 35 percent shooting from downtown.
White's shot quality might go up in Boston, and there is utility in his volume from long range, but Richardson was the team's most efficient non-big from distance this year. The floor may shrink in the half-court with him gone.
In the end, though, you have to appreciate the talent play from the Celtics. They have the bodies to remain a defensive terror and didn't surrender any cornerstone assets. If White hits his threes at a higher clip or can shoulder more of the half-court floor-general burden, Boston will come out of this trade smelling like a rose—and poised to cause a ruckus in a wiiiiide-open Eastern Conference.
BostonBob
4 Ever The Greatest
More trade grades.
Theis deal.
from clutchsports.com:
Celtics Grade: B
The Celtics receive a B grade for their acquisition of Theis. Size and versatility have been the utmost priorities of Udoka in his system, so adding one more big man in their rotation was a brilliant move. With Williams more of a shot-blocker and rim protector, Theis gives trouble to slower big men similar to how he exploited the weakness of Marc Gasol in their series with the Toronto Raptors in the 2020 NBA Playoffs. By giving away three players for a reliable big man, this move gives Boston five open roster slots, paving the way for more spots in the buyout market or convert some of their two-way players to standard NBA contracts.
Theis will now just be the third or fourth priority in the big man rotation of Udoka, compared to his starting five spot in his first stint with the Beantown Boys. His role would be vastly different compared to when Stevens was still the coach. Nevertheless, Theis will play valuable minutes for the Celtics in the second half of the season.
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from sbnation.com
Celtics Grade: A-
The Celtics brought back an old friend by dealing for Theis, who should provide quality minutes at backup center behind Robert Williams. Theis is a mobile big who will hit the glass, defend in space, and not make many mistakes. By acquiring both Theis and Derrick White at the deadline, Boston improved both their defense and their depth
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from bleacherreport.com
Celtics Grade: B
Bringing back Theis is a little weird when he has two more guaranteed seasons left on his deal, and the Celtics aren't exactly lacking bigs. Then again, they're jettisoning two bigs as part of this trade, and the extension they gave Robert Williams III is enough of a highway robbery that they can afford to pay his primary backup around non-taxpayer mid-level exception money.
Al Horford's presence does make the center rotation a little top-heavy, but he's under contract for one more season at most. Grant Williams is enough of a shooter to play alongside any of Boston's 5s.
Boston isn't quite getting tangible value for Schroder, but his departure further clears the way for the recently acquired Derrick White, and Theis' middle-rung salary is a perfectly sized additive in the future.
And by my count, the Celtics also have like 80 open roster spots. (OK, five.) They figure to be prominent players on the to-be-determined buyout market.
Theis deal.
from clutchsports.com:
Celtics Grade: B
The Celtics receive a B grade for their acquisition of Theis. Size and versatility have been the utmost priorities of Udoka in his system, so adding one more big man in their rotation was a brilliant move. With Williams more of a shot-blocker and rim protector, Theis gives trouble to slower big men similar to how he exploited the weakness of Marc Gasol in their series with the Toronto Raptors in the 2020 NBA Playoffs. By giving away three players for a reliable big man, this move gives Boston five open roster slots, paving the way for more spots in the buyout market or convert some of their two-way players to standard NBA contracts.
Theis will now just be the third or fourth priority in the big man rotation of Udoka, compared to his starting five spot in his first stint with the Beantown Boys. His role would be vastly different compared to when Stevens was still the coach. Nevertheless, Theis will play valuable minutes for the Celtics in the second half of the season.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from sbnation.com
Celtics Grade: A-
The Celtics brought back an old friend by dealing for Theis, who should provide quality minutes at backup center behind Robert Williams. Theis is a mobile big who will hit the glass, defend in space, and not make many mistakes. By acquiring both Theis and Derrick White at the deadline, Boston improved both their defense and their depth
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from bleacherreport.com
Celtics Grade: B
Bringing back Theis is a little weird when he has two more guaranteed seasons left on his deal, and the Celtics aren't exactly lacking bigs. Then again, they're jettisoning two bigs as part of this trade, and the extension they gave Robert Williams III is enough of a highway robbery that they can afford to pay his primary backup around non-taxpayer mid-level exception money.
Al Horford's presence does make the center rotation a little top-heavy, but he's under contract for one more season at most. Grant Williams is enough of a shooter to play alongside any of Boston's 5s.
Boston isn't quite getting tangible value for Schroder, but his departure further clears the way for the recently acquired Derrick White, and Theis' middle-rung salary is a perfectly sized additive in the future.
And by my count, the Celtics also have like 80 open roster spots. (OK, five.) They figure to be prominent players on the to-be-determined buyout market.
BostonBob
4 Ever The Greatest
More trade grades.
from fansided.com:
Overall Grade: A-
There will be some people complaining about the Celtics Trade Deadline moves, but there’s not too much to be upset about. They brought in some helpful players in White and Theis, weeded out some of the dead weight on their bench, and managed to stay under the luxury tax threshold too. They have some space to bring in players on the buyout market as well, so if you are unhappy, at least the roster isn’t fully set in stone yet.
Stevens and the front office accomplished pretty much every goal they wanted to at the deadline. White offers the potential to be a really solid fit with the team, and if he isn’t he has an extremely movable contract, so it’s not as if the two sides are married. Theis shores up the big man rotation and gives Udoka more options after he was basically handcuffed to an eight man rotation over the past few weeks.
Losing Richardson and Schroder hurts, but it’s not the biggest loss in the world. White is an upgrade over Schroder, and this opens up more minutes for Payton Pritchard to take advantage of as well. Replacing Richardson won’t fall on one player, but it should open up minutes for Aaron Nesmith. Whether he’s ready or not remains to be seen, but he will get his shot after sitting on the sideline for most of the season.
Overall, the goal of the front office is to build a championship contender around Tatum and Brown. These moves don’t necessarily put the Celtics closer to a title this season, but they set the team up for a potentially mammoth offseason. The Boston Celtics didn’t have the flashiest deadline performance, but this team is better off as a result of the moves they made, and that bodes well for the team’s future.
from fansided.com:
Overall Grade: A-
There will be some people complaining about the Celtics Trade Deadline moves, but there’s not too much to be upset about. They brought in some helpful players in White and Theis, weeded out some of the dead weight on their bench, and managed to stay under the luxury tax threshold too. They have some space to bring in players on the buyout market as well, so if you are unhappy, at least the roster isn’t fully set in stone yet.
Stevens and the front office accomplished pretty much every goal they wanted to at the deadline. White offers the potential to be a really solid fit with the team, and if he isn’t he has an extremely movable contract, so it’s not as if the two sides are married. Theis shores up the big man rotation and gives Udoka more options after he was basically handcuffed to an eight man rotation over the past few weeks.
Losing Richardson and Schroder hurts, but it’s not the biggest loss in the world. White is an upgrade over Schroder, and this opens up more minutes for Payton Pritchard to take advantage of as well. Replacing Richardson won’t fall on one player, but it should open up minutes for Aaron Nesmith. Whether he’s ready or not remains to be seen, but he will get his shot after sitting on the sideline for most of the season.
Overall, the goal of the front office is to build a championship contender around Tatum and Brown. These moves don’t necessarily put the Celtics closer to a title this season, but they set the team up for a potentially mammoth offseason. The Boston Celtics didn’t have the flashiest deadline performance, but this team is better off as a result of the moves they made, and that bodes well for the team’s future.
Gator Mike
Registered User
I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Devil's Advocate:
Both White and Schroder are averaging 14.4 points per game this year. White is taking fewer Field Goal attempts per game.
White has a higher True Shooting Percentage. They have the same Effective Field Goal percentage. (.497 is the worst eFG of White's career, while it's the 2nd best of Schroder's career.)
White has a better Player Efficiency Rating.
White has a better Wins over Replacement rating this year than Schroder and Richardson combined.
And all this is with Derrick White having what is - for him - a pretty poor season shooting the basketball.
thats not even being the devils advocate, that’s called being correct
he’s a very good player. There’s a reason why everybody outside of Boston thinks they had a good to great deadline.
I really hope that post didn’t say Schroder is better than or even to White lol
Gator Mike
Registered User
Maine Fan
Defense Wins Chanpionships
Schroder is a better scorer but that's it. White is a better fit with the Jays and he also opens up more rotations that Pritchard can fit into and use his shooting. Stevens didn't turn the team into a contender yesterday but he made them slightly better and also more flexible for the rest of the season and long term with roster construction.
JRull86
Registered User
Two injured players in Bol Bol and Dozier, a fringe guy in Langford, Kanter who was immediately waived because he can't actually play NBA quality basketball. Who the f*** cares about any of those.
I liked Richardson, but giving up him and a 1st to sure up bench defense and rotation options by getting White and open up the potential for a Smart trade this summer is shrewd. I don't care about a pick swap in 2028. Ideally that pick is bottom of the round.
Schroeder is whatever. Okay player, but not someone to lose sleep over.
JRull86
Registered User
Also, more importantly, all of this opens up options this summer for brad to make a splash if he wanted to with flexibility and not being hard capped.
Shaun
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2010
- 25,174
- 3,045
did it all on a budget too, I’m actually very encouraged by how competent he seems to be at this position
22Brad Park
Registered User
I like the way Steven's is thinking here building around the best players needs
JRull86
Registered User
I think that's been the play all along.
Makes a lot of sense, regardless of the Tatum connection.
BostonBob
4 Ever The Greatest
Bard Stevens says that White was too good to pass up.
from espn.com:
Boston Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens says the acquisition of guard Derrick White from the San Antonio Spurs was a case of being presented with an opportunity that was too good to pass up.
"We've thought for years that Derrick was a really good fit with our best players," Stevens said during a video conference call Friday morning. "He is an excellent defender. He just makes the right play on offense over and over and over. He's a guy that only cares about winning, that will do all of the little things, as you can see in some of his stats, defensively, with regard to willingness to put his body on the line, activity, shot challenges, all of those things. And on offense, just by making simple plays and doesn't need to do anything to be on the highlights to really, really impact winning.
"We felt really fortunate to be able to get a guy like that on a long contract that we think is, again, you know, a perfect fit for our best players."
White, who is signed through 2025, has familiarity with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart, having played with them on Team USA in the 2019 World Cup. He also spent time with Ime Udoka when the Celtics' coach was an assistant with the Spurs earlier in White's career.
A guard with two-way ability, White is averaging 14.4 points and 5.6 assists -- though, in keeping with a season-long trend for the Celtics, he is shooting 31.4% from 3-point range, a few points below his career average. Still, he and Smart should form an elite defensive partnership in the backcourt for Boston, and White provides another passer on a team that was in short supply of those before the trade deadline.
That said, the cost to get White -- both for his play and his contract, which averages a little over $17 million per season -- wasn't cheap. Boston gave up its first-round pick in 2022 (top-four protected) and made a pick swap with the Spurs in 2028, something Stevens admitted weighed on him in making the move.
Ultimately, though, he decided that White's fit was worth the price.
Full story: Celtics' Stevens: White trade too good to pass up
from espn.com:
Boston Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens says the acquisition of guard Derrick White from the San Antonio Spurs was a case of being presented with an opportunity that was too good to pass up.
"We've thought for years that Derrick was a really good fit with our best players," Stevens said during a video conference call Friday morning. "He is an excellent defender. He just makes the right play on offense over and over and over. He's a guy that only cares about winning, that will do all of the little things, as you can see in some of his stats, defensively, with regard to willingness to put his body on the line, activity, shot challenges, all of those things. And on offense, just by making simple plays and doesn't need to do anything to be on the highlights to really, really impact winning.
"We felt really fortunate to be able to get a guy like that on a long contract that we think is, again, you know, a perfect fit for our best players."
White, who is signed through 2025, has familiarity with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart, having played with them on Team USA in the 2019 World Cup. He also spent time with Ime Udoka when the Celtics' coach was an assistant with the Spurs earlier in White's career.
A guard with two-way ability, White is averaging 14.4 points and 5.6 assists -- though, in keeping with a season-long trend for the Celtics, he is shooting 31.4% from 3-point range, a few points below his career average. Still, he and Smart should form an elite defensive partnership in the backcourt for Boston, and White provides another passer on a team that was in short supply of those before the trade deadline.
That said, the cost to get White -- both for his play and his contract, which averages a little over $17 million per season -- wasn't cheap. Boston gave up its first-round pick in 2022 (top-four protected) and made a pick swap with the Spurs in 2028, something Stevens admitted weighed on him in making the move.
Ultimately, though, he decided that White's fit was worth the price.
Full story: Celtics' Stevens: White trade too good to pass up
Gator Mike
Registered User
UncleRico
Registered User
- May 8, 2017
- 8,295
- 10,693
Yes because he’s a very good defender, but the Celtics are already the best defensive team in the league. They need more shooting and just replaced their top bench scorers with white and Theis.
Now the Celtics are going to have guys who couldn’t beat out Richardson and Schroder for roles, filling scoring roles.
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