Transfer: 2020 Summer Transfer Window Rumors Part III

[YNWA14]

Firmino is in the box when Liverpool attacks, just like Giroud.
Giroud has scored at a better clip throughout his career. And his NT resume is excellent. In Europe this year he has 11 goals in 14 games.

They are not in the box at the same frequency at all.

Though, you watch Liverpool a lot I'm sure your eye exam is up to it. Though it seems like you prefer statistics when it benefits your agenda.

 

[Evilo]

I don't call goal production statistic really
You try to act like Firmino is playing CB really, it's laughable.
Firmino is in the box of every Liverpool attack I'm looking. Just because he helps in the buildup doesn't mean he's not in the box. And Giroud does help in the buildup too.

 

[YNWA14]

I don't call goal production statistic really
You try to act like Firmino is playing CB really, it's laughable.
Firmino is in the box of every Liverpool attack I'm looking. Just because he helps in the buildup doesn't mean he's not in the box. And Giroud does help in the buildup too.

So you aren't watching then, because this simply isn't true. When a player is in the box and where makes a big difference as well. I'll give some examples of their heat maps:

Firmino first with a season heatmap in the season he spent the most time forward (17/18):

Here's another of Firmino:



Here are a couple from Giroud:

Now, again, Giroud has some games where he's a bit more withdrawn but most of his high scoring games or games that he scores in look like that. There's a massive difference between Firmino as a 'striker' and most strikers. He is essentially a 10 that starts higher to lead the press but in possession plays more to the natural 10 position and roams around a lot. He does get into the box but nowhere near as much as traditional strikers do, and he's never the player that they're looking to get the ball to to score. In fact, more often than not, when he gets the ball in the box he's looking to move it on to someone else and create a better scoring opportunity.

 

[Evilo]

You do realize your heat maps show Giroud has most of his touches outside the box?
You also do realize one is a season map while the other is a game map?

You also do realize you're trying to argue Firmino is as good as scorer as Giroud?

Frankly, read that last line again 3 times.

 

[phisherman]

 

[YNWA14]

You do realize your heat maps show Giroud has most of his touches outside the box?
You also do realize one is a season map while the other is a game map?

You also do realize you're trying to argue Firmino is as good as scorer as Giroud?

Frankly, read that last line again 3 times.

Frankly, you are trying to argue that Firmino spends as much time in the box as other strikers, and on top of which you've been trying to present statistics comparing his production to others for the last week while simultaneously crying about 'statistics being useless' and only watching the play matters. You're then arguing about how good Lacazette is with Arsenal fans, then argue Giroud is a better scorer than Firmino when he's had similar or better scoring seasons when played in a more advanced position but then tell others they lack the ability to see context (while comparing scoring ability based on players playing essentially a completely different position for the majority of their careers).

Giroud has scored at a higher rate than Firmino though, but again, Firmino is not a traditional striker who gets in the box as much as a traditional striker nor is he a primary or even secondary scoring option.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeh...I know that people have said that another team is going to have a future great midfielder on their hands but his recurrent issues and this kind of problem with Arteta doesn't bode well IMO. How many super talented players having these kinds of issues early on in their career go on to become great players? Genuinely curious for some examples.

 

[Evilo]

Wow, you're mixing every post guy you're on something again. Stop the smoking.

YOU are trying to argue Firmino is a better scorer than Giroud. AGAIN, read that. There's really nothing to argue with someone stating that.

 

[Cassano]

At the same time, his excellent performances in addition to passion playing for the shirt last season makes this very disheartening to hear. Really looked in line to be the next club captain, it's a shame that it's come to this.

Unless they're replacing him with Sszoboszlai, I'll be very upset with his departure.

 

[YNWA14]

Wow, you're mixing every post guy you're on something again. Stop the smoking.

YOU are trying to argue Firmino is a better scorer than Giroud. AGAIN, read that. There's really nothing to argue with someone stating that.

When did I try and argue that?

While also being completely wrong about Firmino in general you're also completely making things up (as usual).

 

[Evilo]

I have no idea what happenned between Guendouzi and Arteta and the player might be 100% guilty.
But PLEASE some people have to know what they're talking about when quoting someone.
Bernard Casoni is one of the biggest asshole in french football and has never stayed for more than a year in a decent football club because the guy trashes everyone. He was the same as a player in fact, absolute asshole.
So when Casoni speaks badly of someone, it usually is a good omen.

 

[Evilo]

When did I try and argue that?

While also being completely wrong about Firmino in general you're also completely making things up (as usual).

Play on words if you want.
You said "not necessarily better", which implis Firmino could be better.

But again, time wasted in the wind again on you. I should know better.

 

[Evilo]

Oh and Casoni is also the guy that made an absolute golden quote (proving he's so full of himself).
About his time at OM (where he was a player that was counted on injurying the other team's star) : « On a beaucoup parlé du trio magique à l'avant, mais y'avait un trio magique à l'arrière avec Carlos [Mozer], Baz [Boli]... et moi. »

 

[YNWA14]

Play on words if you want.
You said "not necessarily better", which implis Firmino could be better.

But again, time wasted in the wind again on you. I should know better.

That's not the implication. You're right about this being a waste of time, but that's on you thinking you're right about everything always regardless of the evidence brought before you. If it's statistical you say it's lacking context and useless, if it's someone that watches the players more than you then you bring up statistics that don't have any context or compare players that don't play similarly at all.

Anyway, there's another level between players that isn't 'better' or 'worse' than. Players can be on a similar level at a specific part of the game. I never said that Firmino was a better goal scorer than Giroud, but I also don't think that Giroud is necessarily better either (though, he's scored at a higher rate with having more opportunity as a primary or secondary goal scorer), if anything that leaves more of an argument open that Giroud could be better.

Like you said though...'wasted in the wind'. I don't know why anyone ever debates anything with you. You're never wrong and you know all.

 

[Evilo]

Well, compared to your football knowledge it's easy.
Just about everyone here knows better.
I'll give an exception to the Arsenal troll, don't know where he's at. That's about it.

 

[YNWA14]

Well, compared to your football knowledge it's easy.
Just about everyone here knows better.
I'll give an exception to the Arsenal troll, don't know where he's at. That's about it.

You've got it champ. You're the best.

 

[Evilo]

Thanks for finally realizing.

 

[phisherman]

I have no idea what happenned between Guendouzi and Arteta and the player might be 100% guilty.
But PLEASE some people have to know what they're talking about when quoting someone.
Bernard Casoni is one of the biggest asshole in french football and has never stayed for more than a year in a decent football club because the guy trashes everyone. He was the same as a player in fact, absolute asshole.
So when Casoni speaks badly of someone, it usually is a good omen.

I have no idea who he is. But what's shown throughout that thread is a history of Guendouzi's attitude issues. Just posting it because everyone here thinks it's solely due to what happened against Brighton.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah things might have happenned behind the scene.
But that thread is at best uninformed or at worst dishonest.
For instance, they said Landreau had a run in with Guendouzi when everyone and their mother in France knows that he benched him in order to pressure him to sign an extension. He refused and left for Arsenal.
Guy has temper, surely can be a diva, but that thread is not depicting who he is.

 

[Evilo]

This thing though might be a good start for Arteta if the roster does indeed feel like Guendouzi is stepping out of line for things we don't know about. I'm not convinced by him as a manager, but the mentality won't change unless the coach makes it change. Maybe it's the first step.
If it's mainly because of that Brighton incident, then it's beyond ridiculous, but I don't think Arteta is stupid enough to do this on just this incident.

 

[Cassano]

He’s had multiple opportunities to clean up his act. He’s had a veteran Luiz reach out to him and he refuses to listen. Not sure what more can be done. Perhaps a bigger club swayed his head. I remember Barca were linked with him.

 

[Evilo]

France Football says he refused to apologize to Arteta in front of the team, despite being told to so by Luiz. Again, if it's just for the Brighton incident, it's ridiculous, but I doubt so.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

He’s had multiple opportunities to clean up his act. He’s had a veteran Luiz reach out to him and he refuses to listen. Not sure what more can be done. Perhaps a bigger club swayed his head. I remember Barca were linked with him.

What actually happened though? Buddy barca are broke unless your gonna take Ivan off our hands lol

 

[Blender]

What actually happened though? Buddy barca are broke unless your gonna take Ivan off our hands lol

No one really knows exactly. He was acting like a complete clown in the BHA game and apparently responded to Arteta trying to correct his behavior on the training ground after pretty poorly. He's been exiled from the first team since.

 

[Cassano]

No one really knows exactly. He was acting like a complete clown in the BHA game and apparently responded to Arteta trying to correct his behavior on the training ground after pretty poorly. He's been exiled from the first team since.

He also was disrespectful to Arteta when the team went to Dubai in a team meeting. So there is a bit of a history.