2020 NHL Draft Thread: Who knows how many more days until this year's hockey tryouts? - Part III

[a79krgm]

If we're going to Askarov, we should move down.

Askarov may be the only player available at 9 that that the potential to turn the franchise around. They are comparing him to Carey Price. I say, "potential" because picking a goaltender at that spot is high risk - high reward.

 

[57special]

What we have to ask ourselves is what is the performance difference between Askarov and Kahkonen, or his replacement, vs the difference between our top 6 C's and Lundell. Also, who is more likely to be ready soonest? In Askarov's case, would we have to deal with him wanting to play in the KHL for money reasons till he gets his ELC years out of the way(like Kaprizov).?

It's almost impossible to answer these questions definitively. Like a lot of drafting, it's down to luck, and good scouting. I like Lundell and think he would be the right choice at 9, assuming the earlier picks go according to plan, but I don't have a crystal ball. For all we know, Lapierre could be the best Center in the draft, Bednar the best goalie, and Lundell the next Zacha.

I just think that if we don't start picking C's in the draft, we'll never get a really good one. They don't just "happen". Sort of like quarterbacks....probably best we don't get into that right now, with what is going on with the Vikes.

 

[Bazeek]

The other problem with taking a goalie high is the question of what role goalies really play on the team. The position's obviously important, but the players themselves are probably more interchangeable than any other position in hockey. You need strong goaltending to make the playoffs and hot goaltending to win a Cup, but you can get those things from any number of directions. And there's absolutely no guarantee that high-investment guys like Price and Bobrovsky will actually work out for more than a few years. Committing lots and term and money to the position is a sucker's game; it's better to keep things fluid.

So with Askarov the best case scenario is that you get one of the best goalies in the league, but that leads immediately into the questions above. How much does it cost to sign him? And for how long? And how many years does he actually perform at that level?

I realize this team has some major flaws, but our current approach to defense and goaltending strikes me as the better option: build a good, mobile blueline and practice competent team-defense, and you have a lot of leeway with who you put in goal.

 

[57special]

A guy like Lundell helps you out on Defense though. BTW, he just scored a goal on his 2nd shift of the season.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Askarov may be the only player available at 9 that that the potential to turn the franchise around. They are comparing him to Carey Price. I say, "potential" because picking a goaltender at that spot is high risk - high reward.

I don't think that's the case; Lundell, Holtz, even a Jarvis or a Mercer could potentially turn the franchise around as it finally gives Minnesota more depth and a player to build off of.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

Kaprizov could very well be a top 6 player, but he isn't right now. Same with Boldy, though he's even further off. Parise is definitely not a top 6 player 5v5. Zuccarello is a solid middle 6 guy. Kunin, Greenway, Donato weren't top 6 players at the end of this season, and have work to do before they are.

The only surefire top 6 player we have is Fiala. Technically Zuccarello too if you consider him a 2nd liner.

How about this - I think we're in better shape on the wings than we are in goal. I think Askarov is probably a better goalie than the forwards who will be there at 9 are at at playing forward. That's my whole opinion in a nutshell. I won't be upset if we take Lundell or one of the other forwards but I won't be surprised or disappointed if we take Askarov either.

 

[AKL]

How about this - I think we're in better shape on the wings than we are in goal. I think Askarov is probably a better goalie than the forwards who will be there at 9 are at at playing forward. That's my whole opinion in a nutshell. I won't be upset if we take Lundell or one of the other forwards but I won't be surprised or disappointed if we take Askarov either.

I'll counter with Bazeek's post here:

The other problem with taking a goalie high is the question of what role goalies really play on the team. The position's obviously important, but the players themselves are probably more interchangeable than any other position in hockey. You need strong goaltending to make the playoffs and hot goaltending to win a Cup, but you can get those things from any number of directions. And there's absolutely no guarantee that high-investment guys like Price and Bobrovsky will actually work out for more than a few years. Committing lots and term and money to the position is a sucker's game; it's better to keep things fluid.

So with Askarov the best case scenario is that you get one of the best goalies in the league, but that leads immediately into the questions above. How much does it cost to sign him? And for how long? And how many years does he actually perform at that level?

I realize this team has some major flaws, but our current approach to defense and goaltending strikes me as the better option: build a good, mobile blueline and practice competent team-defense, and you have a lot of leeway with who you put in goal.

And say that a high end forward, like a potential 40 goal scoring right winger, would have more of a comparative advantage than Askarov, all things considered.

But I respect your opinion and I'm not going to say you're wrong. I also wouldn't be surprised if they take Askarov, I just personally don't see it as the right pick.

 

[thestonedkoala]

How about this - I think we're in better shape on the wings than we are in goal. I think Askarov is probably a better goalie than the forwards who will be there at 9 are at at playing forward. That's my whole opinion in a nutshell. I won't be upset if we take Lundell or one of the other forwards but I won't be surprised or disappointed if we take Askarov either.

On the other hand; you have only one starter (or two if you platoon). You can have 8 wingers and 4 centers. While we're in better shape on the wings, our depth outside what we have in the NHL is pretty bad. Boldy, Beckman (maybe?) and that's about it. Not to mention at center is even worse with Khovanov as our only center. Our depth at goaltending is much stronger with Kahkonen, Jones, Lindberg, Robison. Not to mention, getting a FA goaltender is much easier than getting a FA center or even talented winger without breaking the bank.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

On the other hand; you have only one starter (or two if you platoon). You can have 8 wingers and 4 centers. While we're in better shape on the wings, our depth outside what we have in the NHL is pretty bad. Boldy, Beckman (maybe?) and that's about it. Not to mention at center is even worse with Khovanov as our only center. Our depth at goaltending is much stronger with Kahkonen, Jones, Lindberg, Robison. Not to mention, getting a FA goaltender is much easier than getting a FA center or even talented winger without breaking the bank.

Fair enough. Your argument makes sense to me as well. We'll see how the draft goes - I'm just saying I won't flip any tables in anger if Askarov is the pick

 

[Bazeek]

I'll counter with Bazeek's post here:



And say that a high end forward, like a potential 40 goal scoring right winger, would have more of a comparative advantage than Askarov, all things considered.

But I respect your opinion and I'm not going to say you're wrong. I also wouldn't be surprised if they take Askarov, I just personally don't see it as the right pick.

Yeah, the obvious counterpoint to that stance right now is Vasilevskiy. Wasn't taken as high as Askarov's projected to go, but 19th overall is still a pretty significant investment. And I doubt Tampa's regretting it right now.

Of course, now comes the extension...

 

[PuckInTheNards]

I'll counter with Bazeek's post here:



And say that a high end forward, like a potential 40 goal scoring right winger, would have more of a comparative advantage than Askarov, all things considered.

But I respect your opinion and I'm not going to say you're wrong. I also wouldn't be surprised if they take Askarov, I just personally don't see it as the right pick.

All solid points. The good news is that we've got Judd Brackett running the draft - I trust him way more than I trust my own opinion about who we should pick. If we do go with a guy like Lundell, then that will mean to me that Brackett likes what he sees in the kid and that should make us all a little more comfortable with it.

 

[AKL]

Yeah, the obvious counterpoint to that stance right now is Vasilevskiy. Wasn't taken as high as Askarov's projected to go, but 19th overall is still a pretty significant investment. And I doubt Tampa's regretting it right now.

Of course, now comes the extension...

The counterpoint to that counterpoint is Khudobin, as well as countless other goalies who have helped their teams make deep runs without being paid 8M (or equivalent). I mean, how many times have guys like Price, Bobrovsky, Rinne really carried their teams on deep runs?

Quick? Rask? But neither of those guys were high picks.

You can probably go back and forth for a while with examples on either side, which to me is enough proof in itself to pass on taking a goalie at 9.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Yeah, the obvious counterpoint to that stance right now is Vasilevskiy. Wasn't taken as high as Askarov's projected to go, but 19th overall is still a pretty significant investment. And I doubt Tampa's regretting it right now.

Of course, now comes the extension...

I don't think it hurts that Tampa Bay was loaded on offense and on defense; Hedman, Point, Kucherov. They got a lot of value past the 1st round that compelled them ahead. I don't think even as good as Vasilevskiy was without Kucherov, Point, or even guys like Palat, Gourde, Killorn they would have been as successful. They had the luxury of spending a 1st on Vasilevskiy as they gotten production out of the later round guys.

 

[AKL]

All solid points. The good news is that we've got Judd Brackett running the draft - I trust him way more than I trust my own opinion about who we should pick. If we do go with a guy like Lundell, then that will mean to me that Brackett likes what he sees in the kid and that should make us all a little more comfortable with it.

Agreed. With Brackett in charge, he could take a wide range of guys there that I'd be more comfortable with than I am now, just because he's the one who picked him.

Also maybe there should be a caution about deifying this guy. He made quite a few good picks for Vancouver, but we (and I mean myself too), should maybe pump the brakes a little on the thought that he's bulletproof in the draft. Not saying we can't get excited about having him and his picks.

 

[DANOZ28]

Lundell over Holtz?? Oof. I would not be okay with that.

this is kinda my biggest fear , holtz may be the next boeser / pastrnak and lundell may be the next koivu.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Wheeler Q&A Today:
Q: What are realistic expectations for Rossi next year in the Wild:
Wheels: LOL
In the right role, 40-50 points and he begins to play all situations.
Q: Who do you anticipate the Wild selecting and who do you anticipate them moving up
Wheels: Lundell/Askarov/Rossi, in order of Liklinood. And no

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Wheeler Q&A Today:
Q: What are realistic expectations for Rossi next year in the Wild:
Wheels: LOL
In the right role, 40-50 points and he begins to play all situations.
Q: Who do you anticipate the Wild selecting and who do you anticipate them moving up
Wheels: Lundell/Askarov/Rossi, in order of Liklinood. And no

Not a big fan of that order.

 

[AJ Thelen]

this is kinda my biggest fear , holtz may be the next boeser / pastrnak and lundell may be the next koivu.

Holtz may also be the next Pavel Brendl and Lundell may be the next Patrice Bergeron.

We can do this all day.

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

I really am praying that we don’t have the opportunity to draft Askarov. You can find plenty of quality goalies in later rounds. You cannot find plenty of quality centers in later rounds.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Not a big fan of that order.

My Tier list for emotions go as follows
Most excited I’ve ever been about a Wild Prospect:

• Rossi
• Perfetti
• Raymond

Happy. About what I felt for Boldy:

• Holtz
• Jarvis
  
• Sanderson
• Drysdale

Questioning the pick:

• Askarov
• Lundell
• Anyone lower ranked by consensus

 

[HotDish]

this is kinda my biggest fear , holtz may be the next boeser / pastrnak and lundell may be the next koivu.

You say that like that would be a bad thing.

 

[Legegendsofthenorth]

I really am praying that we don’t have the opportunity to draft Askarov. You can find plenty of quality goalies in later rounds. You cannot find plenty of quality centers in later rounds.

Dont tell Tampa Bay this?

 

[57special]

I'll be turning cartwheels if Lundell is the next Koivu. It's the #9 pick, not a top 2.

 

[DANOZ28]

when i compare lundell to koivu im talkin bout peak koivu 20G 50A. nothing wrong with that for the next 10 years! i will have a tear in my eye every time i hear holtz has another 30G season though.

 

[AKL]

Wheeler Q&A Today:
Q: What are realistic expectations for Rossi next year in the Wild:
Wheels: LOL
In the right role, 40-50 points and he begins to play all situations.
Q: Who do you anticipate the Wild selecting and who do you anticipate them moving up
Wheels: Lundell/Askarov/Rossi, in order of Liklinood. And no

Is this based on anything even remotely resembling insider knowledge?
This seems like someone looked at the roster, decided we could use centers and a goalie, and decided the best way to fill those current roster needs is to draft these guys.