OT: 2020 NFL and NCAAF thread

[Jack Be Quick]

Tampa had an all time defense that year. I get what you're doing but this has run stale for me. Enjoy just spinning everything in a circle.

Nothing circular about it.

I believe Darnold and Jones can win so long as you get monsters on the d and o lines.

I also believe that a shiny new qb is not the way to go for either franchise. No matter how "generational" he's supposed to be.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

the Chiefs had one of the worst defenses in the league last year and they won

SF had a great defense and JAG in Jimmy G at QB and lost

this is just last year

They have Hill, Kelce, and a savage o-line.

And a legit generational QB they didn't waste a 1OA on.

 

[My3Sons]

Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl because he had a top 3-5 defense of all time playing behind him. You see the Giants getting that any time soon?

I don’t know that you need a truly great defense from top to bottom. I think you can win with a very good defensive line and two cornerbacks. I think safeties and linebackers can be ok and you can still have enough defense to win. I think you also need an offensive line. Even on the o-line you need two excellent tackles and a very good center. Guards can be good enough and you still can have a very good line overall. That’s about six defenders and three offensive players that have to be really good and paid accordingly. I think the QB is then the icing on the cake.

It’s tricky I know and much easier with a top QB but folks bashing DJ and Darnold should remember the situation they are in and their youth. It’s like Nico bashing. Let’s see how Nico looks with real coaching some stability of line mates and a real defense behind him. That said if you think Lawrence is a true franchise guy go for it but don’t forget that Rodgers sat behind Farve and Brees was bad for three years at the start and Manning and Aikman both stunk as rookies. Russell Wilson win a playoff game completing 9 passes so I don’t think he was nearly as good his first coupe of years as his team’s success would indicate. Mahomes and Lamar may be the new normal but for now their early career excellence remains the exception not the rule.

 

[My3Sons]

the Chiefs had one of the worst defenses in the league last year and they won

SF had a great defense and JAG in Jimmy G at QB and lost

this is just last year

You make valid points and I think the fair response is that while you aren’t wrong there is more than one way to skin the cat.

As an aside who came up with that saying? Skinning a cat? That’s disgusting.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

A lot = Like five or six non-HOF QB’s winning a SB in the last three decades?

Calling Russell Wilson okay and saying the Pats won most of their SB’s with defense just shows you have a skewed point of view

Russell Wilson is a good qb. Picked in the 3rd round.

Almost all qb's who win bowls go to the hall. Was Kurt Warner really the man?

I also named 2-4 in the last 7 years, not 30.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

the Chiefs had one of the worst defenses in the league last year and they won

SF had a great defense and JAG in Jimmy G at QB and lost

this is just last year

And St Louis won with "grit" and size.

Anomalies occur. But the mean generally prevails.

 

[NJDevs26]

Russell Wilson is a good qb. Picked in the 3rd round.

Almost all qb's who win bowls go to the hall. Was Kurt Warner really the man?

I also named 2-4 in the last 7 years, not 30.

Well sure most SB winning QB's make the Hall, because most SB winning QB's are elite.

Where Russel Wilson was picked is irrelevant now, just like where Brady was picked. Kurt Warner may not have had an elite career but he had a handful of elite seasons. And other than Eli and Warner - who came within a hair of leading two perennial mediocre franchises to SB wins - you can't really argue against any of the other SB winning QB's of the last two-three decades being in the HOF.

I went through all the QB's of the last thirty years to win a SB, but you ignored my other posts. Starting with SB XXVII and not including the Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Foles and Flacco group you have Brady (6), Aikman (3), Elway (2), Peyton (2), Eli (2), Roethlisberger (2), Favre, Steve Young, Warner, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson. All of these guys are on track for or are already in the HOF, and at least a few were #1 OA picks. You may not need a #1 OA to find an elite QB but when you have a #1 OA that's as sure a thing as Peyton, Luck or Lawrence those kind of guys can at least make you a 12-4 team every year.

 

[Billdo]

Downplaying Hall of Fame QBs is intriguing, who do you think is a great QB since you're basically saying everyone's good to average?

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Downplaying Hall of Fame QBs is intriguing, who do you think is a great QB since you're basically saying everyone's good to average?

Downplaying anyone other than Lawrence wasn't my intention per se.

What I've been saying, however, is that both teams already have top 6 picks at the position who I think are fine enough to get you where you need to go (dj more so than sd, but that could just be an age bias).

 

[Better Call Sal]

Jesus Christ.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Well sure most SB winning QB's make the Hall, because most SB winning QB's are elite.

Where Russel Wilson was picked is irrelevant now, just like where Brady was picked. Kurt Warner may not have had an elite career but he had a handful of elite seasons. And other than Eli and Warner - who came within a hair of leading two perennial mediocre franchises to SB wins - you can't really argue against any of the other SB winning QB's of the last two-three decades being in the HOF.

I went through all the QB's of the last thirty years to win a SB, but you ignored my other posts. Starting with SB XXVII and not including the Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Foles and Flacco group you have Brady (6), Aikman (3), Elway (2), Peyton (2), Eli (2), Roethlisberger (2), Favre, Steve Young, Warner, Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson. All of these guys are on track for or are already in the HOF, and at least a few were #1 OA picks. You may not need a #1 OA to find an elite QB but when you have a #1 OA that's as sure a thing as Peyton, Luck or Lawrence those kind of guys can at least make you a 12-4 team every year.

I don't know why we're going back to the 90's, but if that's the case at least be accurate about it.

Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien.

The list of duds who were picked top 5 (or even 1) is much, much longer than those who panned out.

I'll stick with 1's for now: Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow.

Absolutely brutal outside of Peyton and Eli. Though I'd wager Stafford would have won something with Belichick.

I said it last year and I'm digging my heels in this time, you don't spend 1st oa's on qb's when you have this many holes and serviceable ones already on the roster. It's terrible asset management, I don't care how many season tickets it sells.

 

[NJDevs26]

I said from SB XXVII on, I wasn’t being inaccurate.

Hostetler and Rypien won Super Bowls ‘before’ free agency and before a salary cap. Putting together rosters before the mid ‘90’s with a 26-team league and no FA or cap is slightly different than doing it with a cap and FA in a 32-team league. Not to mention rules were less tailored to passing than now.

And nobody in their right mind should be comparing Trevor Lawrence to Jamarcus Russell or Jeff George. Not all #1OA’s are created equal. I hate to point out the most obvious example here but let’s just say not all #1OA’s in the NHL are Crosby-McDavid level either to put it one way.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

I said from SB XXVII on, I wasn’t being inaccurate.

Hostetler and Rypien won Super Bowls ‘before’ free agency and before a salary cap. Putting together rosters before the mid ‘90’s with a 26-team league and no FA or cap is slightly different than doing it with a cap and FA in a 32-team league. Not to mention rules were less tailored to passing than now.

And nobody in their right mind should be comparing Trevor Lawrence to Jamarcus Russell or Jeff George. Not all #1OA’s are created equal. I hate to point out the most obvious example here but let’s just say not all #1OA’s in the NHL are Crosby-McDavid level either to put it one way.

You said 30 years and also used Aikman ('89) as an example.

Not all 1OA's are created equal, obviously. But I think many of you are underestimating our current guys while simultaneously overvaluing the position.

I'm shocked the same posters aren't clamoring for Askarov. That's as generational a prospect we've seen since McJesus. But you don't because goalie isn't sexy.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

I'm going to step away from the conversation after this.

I believe you can win with Jones. I also believe Darnold can do something in this league if he isn't ruined by that franchise.

They both need D, and a lot of it. Lawrence doesn't address that.

 

[Billdo]

I don't know why we're going back to the 90's, but if that's the case at least be accurate about it.

Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien.

The list of duds who were picked top 5 (or even 1) is much, much longer than those who panned out.

I'll stick with 1's for now: Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, and Joe Burrow.

Absolutely brutal outside of Peyton and Eli. Though I'd wager Stafford would have won something with Belichick.

I said it last year and I'm digging my heels in this time, you don't spend 1st oa's on qb's when you have this many holes and serviceable ones already on the roster. It's terrible asset management, I don't care how many season tickets it sells.

How can Burrow and Murray already be "absolutely brutal"? Murray was very good last year and Burrow certainly looks good thus far.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Kyler Murray looks great early in his career. Its hilarious to me how much you hate QBs

 

[Jack Be Quick]

How can Burrow and Murray already be "absolutely brutal"? Murray was very good last year and Burrow certainly looks good thus far.

You got 2 out of the 17 and I didn't even get in to rg3. Though I'm pretty confident Murray and Burrow are going nowhere fast.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Kyler Murray looks great early in his career. Its hilarious to me how much you hate QBs

How could I hate the position?

I think I'm advocating for it.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

How can Burrow and Murray already be "absolutely brutal"? Murray was very good last year and Burrow certainly looks good thus far.

Burrow lost to the Browns and was crushed by the Chargers. Lol

13 points is not looking good by any metric.

Don't believe me? Read his tweets.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Kyler Murray looks great early in his career. Its hilarious to me how much you hate QBs

He stinks so far this year.

Darnold actually has better stats this year against tougher competition.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He stinks so far this year.

Darnold actually has better stats this year against tougher competition.

dude what lol

you are really really proving you have no idea what you are talking about. Did you also happen to see that Kyler has 158 yards rushing and 3 rushing TDs and his team is 2-0?

Please stop.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

dude what lol

you are really really proving you have no idea what you are talking about. Did you also happen to see that Kyler has 158 yards rushing and 3 rushing TDs and his team is 2-0?

Please stop.

78.1 and an 88.3 passer rating against trash teams.

I think I'll continue.

I mean, 78.1? I guess the fact you can do that and win accounts for something.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

passer rating is the worst stat in sports behind wins and saves for baseball pitchers

but sure go off

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Kirk Cousins is 6th all time in passer rating

great stat!!

 

[tr83]

Kirk Cousins is Blake Bortles if Blake had 2 great games a year.