GDT: 2020 HHOF Inductions June 24 - Alfredsson's 4th attempt. Start post #206

[Stylizer1]

Someone is actually arguing that Daniel Alfredsson was a 2nd-line player?

I thought for most of his time in Ottawa he was. I'm not saying he couldn't or shouldn't have been on the top line he wasn't a mainstay there for most of his career.

 

[Flamingo]

McGuire got downright prickly about the HHOF induction "process" on the Team 1200 this morning. Sheesh, what a self-serving blow-hard.

 

[Stylizer1]

I see the revisionist man crush on Spezza is still going strong.

Everyone who Spezza played with had their best seasons. Greening, Michalek, Alfredsson, Heatley.

Alfie was a star in Ottawa but not the rest of the league and that is why he remains out of the hall.

I know it is the summer and people need to dissect everything for arguments sake but the player in question will not get in until it becomes a discussion in a national format. Sorry but that's how it is.

 

[Stylizer1]

McGuire got downright prickly about the HHOF induction "process" on the Team 1200 this morning. Sheesh, what a self-serving blow-hard.

What did he say?

 

[Knave]

Everyone who Spezza played with had their best seasons. Greening, Michalek, Alfredsson, Heatley.

Alfie was a star in Ottawa but not the rest of the league and that is why he remains out of the hall.

I know it is the summer and people need to dissect everything for arguments sake but the player in question will not get in until it becomes a discussion in a national format. Sorry but that's how it is.

Why did Spezza do so poorly away from them relative to how they did without him?

 

[Stylizer1]

Why hasn't he been inducted yet?

 

[Stylizer1]

Why did Spezza do so poorly away from them relative to how they did without him?

What?

 

[stempniaksen]

Why hasn't he been inducted yet?

Because there are a lot of good players in the history of the NHL.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Typically players have to wait a bit before getting in. Each player that did get in this year waited several years.

He’ll get in eventually once he is sent to have ‘paid his due’ I suppose.

I think the hall has cornered itself by insisting on inductees every year, but given that, there are less deserving players in than Alfie.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Because there are a lot of good players in the history of the NHL.

It's not the NHL hall of fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame, and has many members that never played in the NHL.

 

[Stylizer1]

Typically players have to wait a bit before getting in. Each player that did get in this year waited several years.

He’ll get in eventually once he is sent to have ‘paid his due’ I suppose.

I think the hall has cornered itself by insisting on inductees every year, but given that, there are less deserving players in than Alfie.

Borderline hall of famers have to wait because that is the hardest decision to make. Hardware makes the difference in most cases.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It's not the NHL hall of fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame, and has many members that never played in the NHL.

If anything, this just strengthens the point. There are a lot of good players in the history of the NHL and even more in the history of hockey.

 

[stempniaksen]

It's not the NHL hall of fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame, and has many members that never played in the NHL.

Because there are a lot of good players in the history of the sport.

 

[Stylizer1]

It's not the NHL hall of fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame, and has many members that never played in the NHL.

Pretty sure we are mostly taking into account NHL play. Once you have to start justifying a players hall of fame worthiness by using international play as an argument that player wasn't best of the best playing against his peers in the best league in the world.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Pretty sure we are mostly taking into account NHL play. Once you have to start justifying a players hall of fame worthiness by using international play as an argument that player wasn't best of the best playing against his peers in the best league in the world.

I think you miss the point here. Players like Nedomansky and Alex Yakushev getting in in recent years is just another roadblock for the 'on-the-edge' NHLers.

 

[Stylizer1]

I think you miss the point here. Players like Nedomansky and Alex Yakushev getting in in recent years is just another roadblock for the 'on-the-edge' NHLers.

I haven't heard of them before but the fact they got in over Alfie shows what voters think of Alfie's time in the league. I'm not saying its right just that this is my interpretation of why I think he is being passed over.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I haven't heard of them before but the fact they got in over Alfie shows what voters think of Alfie's time in the league. I'm not saying its right just that this is my interpretation of which I get think he is being passed over.

Vaclav Nedomansky was the first international player to defect and come to North America. And Yakushev was one of the key players in the '72 Summit Series. They're both pretty instrumental to the story of hockey on a global scale in a way that Alfredsson isn't. That doesn't make him any less of a talent or any less deserving of a HHoF berth.

 

[Stylizer1]

Vaclav Nedomansky was the first international player to defect and come to North America. And Yakushev was one of the key players in the '72 Summit Series. They're both pretty instrumental to the story of hockey on a global scale in a way that Alfredsson isn't. That doesn't make him any less of a talent or any less deserving of a HHoF berth.

Why is guy carboneau more deserving then?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Why is guy carboneau more deserving then?

That's an excellent question that I don't have an answer for. I don't think he is, and this is one of those cases where I'd really like to see the NHL adopt the MLB's process where votes are made public. Even taking away my Alfredsson bias, I'd have Mogilny, Roenick, Turgeon, Fleury and Doug Wilson all in before Carbo. I don't think this is a matter of Carbo being more deserving than any of the others and I'd kill to hear the official rationale.

 

[Stylizer1]

That's an excellent question that I don't have an answer for. I don't think he is, and this is one of those cases where I'd really like to see the NHL adopt the MLB's process where votes are made public. Even taking away my Alfredsson bias, I'd have Mogilny, Roenick, Turgeon, Fleury and Doug Wilson all in before Carbo. I don't think this is a matter of Carbo being more deserving than any of the others and I'd kill to hear the official rationale.

3 Selkes and 3 cups, one as a captain would be my starting point.

Where would you rank Alfie among those players you mentioned?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

3 Selkes and 3 cups, one as a captain would be my starting point.

I guess I discount Stanley Cups pretty heavily in my assessment. That's a team metric, whereas being in the Hall is an individual accomplishment. And three Selkes isn't enough to get Jere Lehtinen any serious consideration, so how is Carbonneau any more justified? I'm also not convinced that Carbonneau was ever even a top-three player on any team he played with.

 

[coladin]

McGuire sounded like on 1200 like he was the guy who presented Carbonneau. It was a laughable defense, and he was quite prickly. He can be very defensive. I think JR schooled his logic quite a few times

 

[stempniaksen]

With Carbo getting in you'd think it helps the case for Lehtinen and Brind'amour. Alfie might actually have to wait a few more years. I think Mogilny and Roenick are probably in line before Alfie too (especially Mogilny).

 

[Big Papi]

Typically players have to wait a bit before getting in. Each player that did get in this year waited several years.

He’ll get in eventually once he is sent to have ‘paid his due’ I suppose.

I think the hall has cornered itself by insisting on inductees every year, but given that, there are less deserving players in than Alfie.

He said something similar last year, I completely disagree with this process. Do it like baseball, which makes it public, and lets you know how close or far a player is and who voted for who. Until that happens, it will heavily favour teams like Toronto.

 

[SPF6ty9]

McGuire sounded like on 1200 like he was the guy who presented Carbonneau. It was a laughable defense, and he was quite prickly. He can be very defensive. I think JR schooled his logic quite a few times

Pierre's the type of guy who values himself being right above all else. Will never admit to being wrong, will never learn from his mistakes. Thank god he has no place in this org.