GDT: 2020 HHOF Inductions June 24 - Alfredsson's 4th attempt. Start post #206

[inthewings]

Silver lining: maybe when he's honoured for his eventual induction it will be under new ownership, without a toxic relationship between the two parties.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Guy Carbonneau? What am I missing?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Guy Carbonneau? What am I missing?

I have a healthy respect for the guy – as a defensive specialist he was pretty damn good. But the only way he should be in the Hall of Fame is if he's paid for a ticket (no re-entry).

 

[tony d]

Please don't @ me guys or whatever but how the heck is Hayley Wickenheiser, Guy Carbonneau or Vaclav Nedomansky a Hall of Famer ahead of Daniel Alfredsson? Another year to see Alfie robbed of his rightful place in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Please don't @ me guys or whatever but how the heck is Hayley Wickenheiser, Guy Carbonneau or Vaclav Nedomansky a Hall of Famer ahead of Daniel Alfredsson? Another year to see Alfie robbed of his rightful place in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Wickenheiser is undisputably a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Her over Alfredsson is an easy decision.

 

[Senscore]

I also have trouble understanding Zubov in this situation.

 

[stempniaksen]

Wick was a shoe-in, Zubov makes sense and I don't know enough about Nedomansky to have an opinion one way or the other.

Carbonneau over Alfredsson is a travesty though.

 

[SPF6ty9]

I think you are confusing his impotence to his team and his stature around the league. He was a really all around good player for most of his career and played at an elite level while on the pizza line bit wasn't the player who made that line tick, it was Spezza. When state an opinion on this subject I do it unbiasedly as not to come off as a homer. Alfie was the type of player every team wants and needs and is deserving of the nod eventually there is a reason he has not been inducted which is because of self accomplishments from a league wide stand point. He needed more hardware to get in early and in my opinion was just not seen around the league as best of the best.

I get that it makes sense for die hard Send fan that he gets in because he was our most important player but doesn't make people in other markets take notice, stats and awards do.

But I'm not really making any statement that Alfredsson is this amazing player that can do no wrong. I'm just saying that calling him a "really good 2nd liner" is ridiculous. I agree Alfredsson get's overrated in Sens land, but there's a difference between being "unbiased" and making an outlandish contrarian statement.

I think if you asked 3 Sens fans about "who drove the pizza line" you could get 3 different answers. Everyone has their own opinion. Personally I think Spezza and Alfredsson were the best players on that line with Spezza being the creative offensive guy and Alfredsson being the guy who played more responsibly. Either way both great players at the time. Alfredsson was 7th in league scoring the season prior to the first with the Pizza line, so I think you could hardly say he was a passenger on that line.

Also, as this is my 1000th post, I'd like to point out Carbonneau has 337 points less than I have points. No idea how he weaseled his way in there. Then again, too young to have seen him play meaningfully.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I also have trouble understanding Zubov in this situation.

Frankly he's the best NHLer on that list.

Which is telling about that list.

 

[Stylizer1]

But I'm not really making any statement that Alfredsson is this amazing player that can do no wrong. I'm just saying that calling him a "really good 2nd liner" is ridiculous. I agree Alfredsson get's overrated in Sens land, but there's a difference between being "unbiased" and making an outlandish contrarian statement.

I think if you asked 3 Sens fans about "who drove the pizza line" you could get 3 different answers. Everyone has their own opinion. Personally I think Spezza and Alfredsson were the best players on that line with Spezza being the creative offensive guy and Alfredsson being the guy who played more responsibly. Either way both great players at the time. Alfredsson was 7th in league scoring the season prior to the first with the Pizza line, so I think you could hardly say he was a passenger on that line.

Also, as this is my 1000th post, I'd like to point out Carbonneau has 337 points less than I have points. No idea how he weaseled his way in there. Then again, too young to have seen him play meaningfully.

You pretty much explained some of what I'm saying. Alfredsson eventually became the elite player in his prime but wasn't in his first 6 seasons and not in his last 6 seasons. His prime years were elite but without hardware to go with it you get knocked down a notch. As much as people try to compare him to Sundin, Sundin was elite most of his career and was healthier.

 

[Big Papi]

You pretty much explained some of what I'm saying. Alfredsson eventually became the elite player in his prime but wasn't in his first 6 seasons and not in his last 6 seasons. His prime years were elite but without hardware to go with it you get knocked down a notch. As much as people try to compare him to Sundin, Sundin was elite most of his career and was healthier.

unless you happen to play for Toronto

sucks that he missed out, but I don't really hold the HHOF in high regard, especially given the amount of people they allow in on a regular basis. The Baseball HOF kills the HHOF in every facet I hate to say. Location, setting, election...

 

[stempniaksen]

You pretty much explained some of what I'm saying. Alfredsson eventually became the elite player in his prime but wasn't in his first 6 seasons and not in his last 6 seasons. His prime years were elite but without hardware to go with it you get knocked down a notch. As much as people try to compare him to Sundin, Sundin was elite most of his career and was healthier.

What hardware does Sundin have over Alfie?

 

[Larionov]

I can make a case for Carbonneau. He changed the game in that he basically pioneered that defensive centre role that we all know today. They pretty much created an award for the guy for crying out loud (Selke). If you had a one goal lead to protect, a key faceoff to win, or a huge penalty kill, he was the guy, and the guy by which all others were measured. No, defensive hockey isn't sexy, but he was the guru of it, and it quickly became a huge part of the game. Players used to joke about it, calling each other "Guy Carbonneau" when they drew a defensive assignment.

Having said all that, there is no reason why they couldn't have admitted Alfie, Mogilny and others at the same time. For years, the defining characteristic of the HHOF was that it was more, err, "inclusive" than the Baseball Hall of Fame. This is a Hall of Fame that admitted Clark Gillies and Bernie Federko years ago, and Bob Pulford and Dick Duff the years before that. (Toronto sports writers ensured that basically every semi--prominent 1960s era Leafs player got in.) God bless those guys, but none of them were going to make you forget Orr or Gretzky. The precedent had clearly been set that the Hockey Hall of Fame takes in more players, and fan favourites, than does baseball. That's cool - different sports, different approaches. In my view, now was not the time to suddenly raise the drawbridge at the HHOF and start getting picky about who gets in and who doesn't.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I really liked Guy back in the day...hell, was a halfway hab fan for a bit because of him....but no way he's a hall of famer. This has O6 bias written all over it.

 

[Knave]

I really liked Guy back in the day...hell, was a halfway hab fan for a bit because of him....but no way he's a hall of famer. This has O6 bias written all over it.

You're just jealous he invented defense.

 

[Laphroaig]

They pretty much created an award for the guy for crying out loud (Selke).

The Selke award pre-dates Guy Carbonneau. Bob Gainey was the inspiration for the award and won it the first four years. Carbonneau is the second forward nominated to the Hall of Fame largely based on his defensive rather than offensive contributions. His worthiness is debatable. It all depends how much value you put on the role of elite defensive forwards.

Daniel Alfredsson is going to be in the Hall eventually. I have no doubt.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

At the end of the day it comes down to stats. If he warranted 1st line everything he would have played there his whole career. He had unbelievable chemistry with Heatley and Spezza but so would have other players seeing how playing with Spezza alone would gove them career highs. Looking at stats after the fact doesn't equate the same as production on the ice at the time. Alfie was a boarder line 1st line player most of his career but was an excellent 2nd liner.

Welcome to the worst take of 2019.

 

[Stylizer1]

What hardware does Sundin have over Alfie?

I explained the difference between the 2.

 

[Stylizer1]

Welcome to the worst take of 2019.

And yet he is still not in.

 

[Senscore]

Are we already into offseason ironic posts? I can't even tell anymore.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

And yet he is still not in.

And yet your take is still awful.

 

[Stylizer1]

And yet your take is still awful.

So why has he not gotten in yet?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

So why has he not gotten in yet?

Going by this metric, one could argue that Vinny Lecavalier, Pierre Turgeon, Theo Fleury, Alex Mogilny and Jeremy Roenick were all "very good second liners."

 

[NyQuil]

I see the revisionist man crush on Spezza is still going strong.

 

[inthewings]

Someone is actually arguing that Daniel Alfredsson was a 2nd-line player?