GDT: 2020 HHOF Inductions June 24 - Alfredsson's 4th attempt. Start post #206

[Wondercarrot]

Alfie put up incredible numbers playing through the heart of the the dead puck era, played defence the same way he played offence, & did all that while playing a physical hard nosed game.
And THEN there is his international play...
If he isn’t Hall worthy, the Hall isn’t worth having.

 

[Cosmix]

That's an excellent question that I don't have an answer for. I don't think he is, and this is one of those cases where I'd really like to see the NHL adopt the MLB's process where votes are made public. Even taking away my Alfredsson bias, I'd have Mogilny, Roenick, Turgeon, Fleury and Doug Wilson all in before Carbo. I don't think this is a matter of Carbo being more deserving than any of the others and I'd kill to hear the official rationale.

Making voting public knowledge should be mandatory.

 

[Agent Zub]

Alfie put up incredible numbers playing through the heart of the the dead puck era, played defence the same way he played offence, & did all that while playing a physical hard nosed game.
And THEN there is his international play...
If he isn’t Hall worthy, the Hall isn’t worth having.

Seriously. He's an all time great two way player. PK,PP, up a goal, down a goal, set up a goal, snipe a goal, play him on a 3rd line to make it a 1st line, 100 point peak, consistent, had no off button and busted his ass every shift even when he was 40 years old.

Imagine wanting to win a cup and adding kevin f***ing lowe to the roster ahead of alfredsson. what a joke lol.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Seriously. He's an all time great two way player. PK,PP, up a goal, down a goal, set up a goal, snipe a goal, play him on a 3rd line to make it a 1st line, 100 point peak, consistent, had no off button and busted his ass every shift even when he was 40 years old.

Imagine wanting to win a cup and adding kevin f***ing lowe to the roster ahead of alfredsson. what a joke lol.

Quick it’s the biggest game of the year, Alfie I know you’ve got your skates on but could you pls go pick up Carbonneau and Lowe. I mean FFS.

 

[JD1]

Alfie was, is, this franchise's most iconic player. No doubt.

I mentioned yesterday the Athletic article on HoF selection. They put a panel of 18 hockey writers that work for the Athletic together to vote on the hall. The exercise was run by Eric Duhatschek who was one of the 18 voters on the Hall of Fame panel for 15 years. Safe to say he is an expert on the selection process, he led the exercise and went through the same procedures as used by the actual hall voters. Alfie got 0 votes. That includes Duhatschek voting. You need 14 of 18 to get in. Based on that exercise, it may be unlikely that Alfie ever gets in

At the end of the day, as good as he was, Alfie didn't win a cup and doesn't have a shelf full of nhl hardware and those things matter.

 

[Ouroboros]

Alfie was, is, this franchise's most iconic player. No doubt.

I mentioned yesterday the Athletic article on HoF selection. They put a panel of 18 hockey writers that work for the Athletic together to vote on the hall. The exercise was run by Eric Duhatschek who was one of the 18 voters on the Hall of Fame panel for 15 years. Safe to say he is an expert on the selection process, he led the exercise and went through the same procedures as used by the actual hall voters. Alfie got 0 votes. That includes Duhatschek voting. You need 14 of 18 to get in. Based on that exercise, it may be unlikely that Alfie ever gets in

At the end of the day, as good as he was, Alfie didn't win a cup and doesn't have a shelf full of nhl hardware and those things matter.

It's all true.

I think a lot of people here are having a hard time separating what Alfredsson meant to the Senators franchise and what the perception of him was around the league.

Outside of Ottawa Alfie is remembered as being a very good player, but generally not HHOF worthy. He just doesn't have the individual hardware or team accolades. In addition, there was never really a widespread belief that he was one of the best in the league for an extended period. Zero first team and only one second team all-star selections speak to that.

The Senators needed to win the Cup in 2007 for Alfie to get in. But they didn't, so he won't.

Never going to happen.

 

[NyQuil]

It's all true.

I think a lot of people here are having a hard time separating what Alfredsson meant to the Senators franchise and what the perception of him was around the league.

Outside of Ottawa Alfie is remembered as being a very good player, but generally not HHOF worthy. He just doesn't have the individual hardware or team accolades. In addition, there was never really a widespread belief that he was one of the best in the league for an extended period. Zero first team and only one second team all-star selections speak to that.

The Senators needed to win the Cup in 2007 for Alfie to get in. But they didn't, so he won't.

Never going to happen.

So many players don't have individual hardware or team accolades and are in the Hall.

Sundin, Gartner, Federko to name a few.

But it only comes up when it comes to Daniel Alfredsson.

 

[RadimBicanek]

They're still angry about him mocking Sundin's stick throwing.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

All I will say is that if Alfie had gotten the induction, I would have been 100% certain that we were not going to get Lafreniere

 

[NyQuil]

All I will say is that if Alfie had gotten the induction, I would have been 100% certain that we were not going to get Lafreniere

He didn't get the induction, and I'm 100% certain we are not getting Lafreniere.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

X team mate of mine from my minor hockey days got in today.

 

[JD1]

So many players don't have individual hardware or team accolades and are in the Hall.

Sundin, Gartner, Federko to name a few.

But it only comes up when it comes to Daniel Alfredsson.

I was not a fan of Sundin getting in. Huge man. Long healthy career led to big numbers. But how many top 10s in scoring did he have?

How many coaches game planned around Gartner?

I never liked either for the Hall. My thoughts are aimed a little higher.

 

[JD1]

He didn't get the induction, and I'm 100% certain we are not getting Lafreniere.

Hmmm....I'm only 75% certain

 

[Tuna99]

It's all true.

I think a lot of people here are having a hard time separating what Alfredsson meant to the Senators franchise and what the perception of him was around the league.

Outside of Ottawa Alfie is remembered as being a very good player, but generally not HHOF worthy. He just doesn't have the individual hardware or team accolades. In addition, there was never really a widespread belief that he was one of the best in the league for an extended period. Zero first team and only one second team all-star selections speak to that.

The Senators needed to win the Cup in 2007 for Alfie to get in. But they didn't, so he won't.

Never going to happen.

led the Gold Medal Swedes in Scoring. Won a SHL championship, Calder Trophy, amazing career stats, true gentleman. If Fluery isn’t getting in because of politics and Kevin Lowe is, Alfies value to the hockey community in Ottawa Has to count for something. NHL Hockey Still exists in Ottawa today because the community bought into Daniel Alfredsson, his family, and his success. He’s Ottawa’s #1 Hockey Person, he was booed in Toronto and that stadium doesn’t even register a pulse, the man impacted the game.

I think he gets in, but can’t disagree with any of this years selections. Iggy is a stud even in the HOF, Doug Wilson no helmet needs a plaque, Hossa has the resume and the Cups And I’m happy he went in year 1 and is recognized for overall play, Kevin Lowe golfs with Wayne G.

they are counting Defensive play a lot with Carbo, Lowe and Hossa - Alfie was a great D player and that could work to his advantage as wel.

 

[Tundraman]

I was convinced that Alfie had no chance when Pierre McGuire said you need someone to lobby on you're behalf. I would expect that Alfie would need a lot of advance support from well respected outside voices and a member or two with the ability to convince others using sound arguments who are not easily swayed by the stronger voices in the room. However, (I believe even in his 3rd year) McGuire then referred to himself as a neophyte member so there is little likelihood that he'd rock the boat even if he did support Alfie.

 

[DaveMatthew]

At the end of the day, as good as he was, Alfie didn't win a cup and doesn't have a shelf full of nhl hardware and those things matter.

This would be fine if there weren't numerous players who do not have a cup and don't have a shelf full of NHL hardware that are in the HOF.

Mats Sundin is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Paul Kariya is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Dave Andreychuk is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Luc Robitaille in in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Darryl Sittler is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.

These guys aren't in because they were better than Alfredsson. They're in because they played in bigger markets and were more well known "names".

Hell, you have a whole section of the hall reserved for "guys that still golf with Gretz".

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This would be fine if there weren't numerous players who do not have a cup and don't have a shelf full of NHL hardware that are in the HOF.

Mats Sundin is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Paul Kariya is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Dave Andreychuk is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Luc Robitaille in in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Darryl Sittler is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.

These guys aren't in because they were better than Alfredsson. They're in because they played in bigger markets and were more well known "names".

Andreychuk has one

 

[Senscore]

This would be fine if there weren't numerous players who do not have a cup and don't have a shelf full of NHL hardware that are in the HOF.

Mats Sundin is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Paul Kariya is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Dave Andreychuk is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Luc Robitaille in in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Darryl Sittler is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.

These guys aren't in because they were better than Alfredsson. They're in because they played in bigger markets and were more well known "names".

Hell, you have a whole section of the hall reserved for "guys that still golf with Gretz".

Totally agree but Andreychuk won a Cup.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Andreychuk has one

My mistake. He was such a big part of that team that I completely forgot about him.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I think a lot of people here are having a hard time separating what Alfredsson meant to the Senators franchise and what the perception of him was around the league.

Between 97/98 and 13/14, a period of 16 seasons, only 3 players scored more points than Alfredsson: Thornton, Jagr and Iginla.

He wasn't just a "good" player.

 

[Ouroboros]

There is no doubt that politics plays a role here as well. I think everybody acknowledges that Mats Sundin wouldn't be in the HHOF if he played the majority of his career in New Jersey or somewhere. Same deal for Darryl Sittler - they got the 'Leafs legend' bump. It's a Toronto-centric institution after all.

None of this plays to Alfredsson's benefit though. He has no advocate, nobody working the room to drum up support for him and he probably never will.

By every conceivable metric, the deck is stacked against Alfredsson ever getting into the Hall.

 

[NyQuil]

There is no doubt that politics plays a role here as well. I think everybody acknowledges that Mats Sundin wouldn't be in the HHOF if he played the majority of his career in New Jersey or somewhere. Same deal for Darryl Sittler - they got the 'Leafs legend' bump. It's a Toronto-centric institution after all.

None of this plays to Alfredsson's benefit though. He has no advocate, nobody working the room to drum up support for him and he probably never will.

By every conceivable metric, the deck is stacked against Alfredsson ever getting into the Hall.

And we don't have Rush fans to make the case endlessly and loudly until the committee buckles.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This would be fine if there weren't numerous players who do not have a cup and don't have a shelf full of NHL hardware that are in the HOF.

Mats Sundin is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Paul Kariya is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Dave Andreychuk is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Luc Robitaille in in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.
Darryl Sittler is in the HOF. No cups and no major individual awards.

These guys aren't in because they were better than Alfredsson. They're in because they played in bigger markets and were more well known "names".

Hell, you have a whole section of the hall reserved for "guys that still golf with Gretz".

I want Alfie in but .. Robitaille is still the highest scoring LW in NHL history... so that's something.
I would put him in ahead of Kariya.. to me the other guys are good enough as well.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I want Alfie in but .. Robitaille is still the highest scoring LW in NHL history... so that's something.
I would put him in ahead of Kariya.. to me the other guys are good enough as well.

I'm fine with all of those guys being in the Hall. I've got nothing against them. I'm just saying that if they're in, Alfredsson should be as well.

Some guys get in because they had incredible, peak years (see. Pavel Bure). Other guys get in because they maintained a very high level of play over a very long period of time (see. Mats Sundin). And other guys get in because they played on a team with Wayne Gretzky.

Alfredsson falls in the Sundin category.

 

[Micklebot]

I want Alfie in but .. Robitaille is still the highest scoring LW in NHL history... so that's something.
I would put him in ahead of Kariya.. to me the other guys are good enough as well.

Give it a couple years and OV will pass him...

Anyways, there's always next year. Alfie deserves to be there, he'll get it one day.