2020/21 Roster Thread XI: A Jambalaya of Suffering

[Flyer lurker]

I miss writers and journalists with an ability to think and be critical. Not talk show muppets who are critical to gather in ratings or writers than have an agenda against say Jacob Voracek only. But true criticisms of players who have checked out after game 20. Criticisms against pp and pk set ups. Criticisms on why this was a miserable failure of a season from gm, to coach to player to the water boy for all I care. I want announcers that are just as critical when Braun and Hagg bleep up just as much as when Ghost and Myers bleep up. And sadly I woke up from my dream.

 

[BernieParent]

Good f***ing lord has Meltzer just gotten fully on his hands and knees and lapped everything dripping off of Flyers management.

Using last year a barometer for this year is a f***ing poor decision.

Also, AV blaming new kids on the PK when the PK has roughly been the same players, minus Niskanen, is being dishonest and disingenuous as f***.

How Meltzer thinks he is doing his job:

How Meltzer is doing his job:

 

[Redpath]

Does it really matter how bad our beat writers actually are? With the prevalence of social media, it is not like we need writers to hold players and management accountable. They see the fan reaction in real time now more than ever.

We should ask ourselves why we care what any writer has to say in the first place, when the same games are sitting right in front of us too.

 

[Magua]

Regarding, the penalty kill:

(2019-2020 L; 2020-2021 R)

Defense: Provorov-Niskanen-Braun-Sanheim ---> Provorov-Braun-Sanheim-Hagg/Myers

Forwards: Couturier, Hayes, Laughton, Lindblom/Raffl/Pitlick ---> Couturier, Laughton, Lindblom/Farabee/Hayes

Remember, the 'A' in 'Alain' stands for accountable. If I'm a general manager listening to the personnel excuses, with the typical lack of self-criticism by these coaches, my ears prick up. We're down Niskanen......and that's about it. What's actually interesting, with the kiddie talk, is how few PK minutes Hayes is getting. He went from co-anchor with Couturier (and Laughton clearly #3) to essentially a rotating 4th guy. He's been getting team-worst torched for goals, so that probably explains it, but it's definitely noteworthy. Funnily enough, which forward and defenseman allow the fewest goals against/60? Farabee and Sanheim. Fewest xGA/60? Farabee and Myers. Boy, that doesn't help the kiddie blame game, huh?

To no one's surprise, the goaltending putridness extends to the PK, with ~3.3 extra goals allowed per 60 minutes relative to expected GA -- no team is worse. The Flyers have a fringe bottom 10 PK in xGA, so they are very much not good, but goaltending accentuates everything. I can't fault the coaches for historically bad goaltending overall, but it doesn't require a deep dive or much time spent watching to see this team is mediocre-poor at most everything else too. It's almost like that's coaching.

In the above charts, I didn't include Thompson's 15 minutes on the PK, where he was 1st among forwards in that span. I have absolutely no doubt Vigneault will demand another Nate Thompson this off-season. We're so f***ed.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Regarding, the penalty kill:

(2019-2020 L; 2020-2021 R)

Defense: Provorov-Niskanen-Braun-Sanheim ---> Provorov-Braun-Sanheim-Hagg/Myers

Forwards: Couturier, Hayes, Laughton, Lindblom/Raffl/Pitlick ---> Couturier, Laughton, Lindblom/Farabee/Hayes

Remember, the 'A' in 'Alain' stands for accountable. If I'm a general manager listening to the personnel excuses, with the typical lack of self-criticism by these coaches, my ears prick up. We're down Niskanen......and that's about it. What's actually interesting, with the kiddie talk, is how few PK minutes Hayes is getting. He went from co-anchor with Couturier (and Laughton clearly #3) to essentially a rotating 4th guy. He's been getting team-worst torched for goals, so that probably explains it, but it's definitely noteworthy. Funnily enough, which forward and defenseman allow the fewest goals against/60? Farabee and Sanheim. Fewest xGA/60? Farabee and Myers. Boy, that doesn't help the kiddie blame game, huh?

To no one's surprise, the goaltending putridness extends to the PK, with ~3.3 extra goals allowed per 60 minutes relative to expected GA -- no team is worse. The Flyers have a fringe bottom 10 PK in xGA, so they are very much not good, but goaltending accentuates everything. I can't fault the coaches for historically bad goaltending, but it doesn't require a deep dive or much time spent watching to see this team is mediocre-poor at most everything else too.

In the above charts, I didn't include Thompson's 15 minutes on the PK, where he was 1st among forwards in that span. I have absolutely no doubt Vigneault will demand another Nate Thompson this off-season. We're so f***ed.

Thank you for backing it up. The Flyers really haven't changed their PK players for the most part and we have the same goalies as last year. Yes, goaltending has been lacking, but then you have to take into consideration on just how bad the system the PK currently has. Hell, the same can be said for the PP and overall defensive play in front of any goalie we play. You can blame it on the kids when they are doing well on the PK.

Also, if your excuse is that Niskanen leaving was the reason why Provy is faltering or that the PK and other things didn't go right, ONE PERSON, then you are doing everything in your power to ignore the real failings of your team and your system. I love Provy and I know he struggled this year, but everything that the coaching staff has set up for him and every other player on the team has failed. It has been figured out, it has been exploited and AV and the coaching staff refuses to fix it. Probably because they are incapable, either because they aren't intelligent enough or they are too far up their own ass to change.

 

[ajgoal]

Somebody should screencap @Magua's post and send it to Meltzer/Hall.

 

[Striiker]

Somebody should screencap @Magua's post and send it to Meltzer/Hall.

@Magua are you ok with this?

I could crop out your name if you want.

 

[ajgoal]

I should keep my mouth shut.

 

[Striiker]

I should keep my mouth shut.

It's a valid point. They should be aware of information like this and challenging the staff on their bullshit, but it's probably pointless to ask because none of them have the balls to do their jobs properly.

 

[deadhead]

I pointed this out weeks ago, the PK (well until recently, it's been a disaster the last week) was in the middle of the pack in xGA/60, the goaltender was close to the bottom.

However, it won't surprise me if they bounce back next year if Hart finds his mojo and they upgrade Elliott. The kids will be a year older, they'll be deeper and they'll have a full training camp to set up everything.

I just don't make any firm conclusions off this season, sometimes things cascade.

On the other hand, people should rethink their trashing of Hakstol, while you might not like his style of play, he got a much weaker team to 98 points and the playoffs in 2017-18, and things fell apart for the same reason this year, putrid goaltending. The difference this time is where Hextall ignored his goaltenders, Fletcher bet on a kid who looked like a franchise goaltender with two more prospects a year or two away (Ersson, Fedotov). At least his logic made sense (not wanting to commit to a mediocre veteran to play 25 games a year on a longer term deal). Betting on Elliott and Neuvirth in 2018-19? That was truly a leap of faith.

You can change coaches, etc., but the future of this franchise depends on Hart, Ersson and Fedotov. Most teams with good goaltending grow their own, as Bob shows, signing someone else's goaltender to a big long-term deal is a recipe for disaster (Bryz, anyone?). You can bring in a veteran backup on a 2 year deal, but a viable long-term solution will cost a 1st rd plus in a trade.

 

[wankstifier]

Does it really matter how bad our beat writers actually are? With the prevalence of social media, it is not like we need writers to hold players and management accountable. They see the fan reaction in real time now more than ever.

We should ask ourselves why we care what any writer has to say in the first place, when the same games are sitting right in front of us too.

The writers offer some insight into what management thinks since they’re fed information from them. So when they’re obviously wrong and snarky about it, it’s frustrating

 

[Magua]

@Magua are you ok with this?

I could crop out your name if you want.

It's not worth it.

 

[Striiker]

It's not worth it.

Understood. I won't send it.

 

[ajgoal]

There was a time I would have believed Charlie would ask about that. Sometimes I wonder how much pressure there is with regards to credentials.

 

[Magua]

There was a time I would have believed Charlie would ask about that. Sometimes I wonder how much pressure there is with regards to credentials.

I often think about how smooth Vigneault is with the media. His always stellar relationship with local writers has followed him throughout his career. He's quite the schmoozer -- cynical me thinks he does a fantastic job of making each writer feel seen and important. Of course, I think it's a general nicety to call someone by their name and such. But it probably does shield him well from more pointed criticism. The "Hey, Charlie"s go a long way (of course you have non-beat dinguses like Sielski writing wakeboard fluff pieces about emotional robots so....). Realistically, these writers won't ask accusatory, on-the-nose questions because their job is their daily interaction with these people. And hockey is tighter knit than most sports -- the writers are a small group.

 

[Striiker]

I often think about how smooth Vigneault is with the media. His always stellar relationship with local writers has followed him throughout his career. He's quite the schmoozer -- cynical me thinks he does a fantastic job of making each writer feel seen and important. Of course, I think it's a general nicety to call someone by their name and such. But it probably does shield him well from more pointed criticism. The "Hey, Charlie"s go a long way (of course you have non-beat dinguses like Sielski writing wakeboard fluff pieces about emotional robots....). Realistically, writers won't ask accusatory, on-the-nose questions because their job is their daily interaction with these people. And hockey is tighter knit than most sports.

Yup. This was part of that article from when he was just hired.

What's worse, he will make the Philadelphia media fall in love with them, something he did in New York, and it kept the media from going after him at all — which helped him not need to question himself.

Chatting with Blueshirt Banter about Alain Vigneault

 

[Flyerfan4life]

How Meltzer thinks he is doing his job:

How Meltzer is doing his job:

perfecttttt

 

[Flyerfan4life]

It's a valid point. They should be aware of information like this and challenging the staff on their bullshit, but it's probably pointless to ask because none of them have the balls to do their jobs properly.

youll just get blocked

 

[Striiker]

youll just get blocked

Cut off one burner and two more will take its place.

 

[renberg]

I pointed this out weeks ago, the PK (well until recently, it's been a disaster the last week) was in the middle of the pack in xGA/60, the goaltender was close to the bottom.

However, it won't surprise me if they bounce back next year if Hart finds his mojo and they upgrade Elliott. The kids will be a year older, they'll be deeper and they'll have a full training camp to set up everything.

I just don't make any firm conclusions off this season, sometimes things cascade.

On the other hand, people should rethink their trashing of Hakstol, while you might not like his style of play, he got a much weaker team to 98 points and the playoffs in 2017-18, and things fell apart for the same reason this year, putrid goaltending. The difference this time is where Hextall ignored his goaltenders, Fletcher bet on a kid who looked like a franchise goaltender with two more prospects a year or two away (Ersson, Fedotov). At least his logic made sense (not wanting to commit to a mediocre veteran to play 25 games a year on a longer term deal). Betting on Elliott and Neuvirth in 2018-19? That was truly a leap of faith.

You can change coaches, etc., but the future of this franchise depends on Hart, Ersson and Fedotov. Most teams with good goaltending grow their own, as Bob shows, signing someone else's goaltender to a big long-term deal is a recipe for disaster (Bryz, anyone?). You can bring in a veteran backup on a 2 year deal, but a viable long-term solution will cost a 1st rd plus in a trade.

You’re correct about the future of the franchise depending on Hart, Ersson, Fedotov, Ustimenko and a whole slew of under 25 year old players. The big question is whether or not AV and his staff can develop these players. Based on this season, the answer is no.

 

[Rebels57]

You’re correct about the future of the franchise depending on Hart, Ersson, Fedotov, Ustimenko and a whole slew of under 25 year old players. The big question is whether or not AV and his staff can develop these players. Based on this season, the answer is no.

Its not even up for debate. Its a definitive no. He's a total fraud.

 

[deadhead]

You’re correct about the future of the franchise depending on Hart, Ersson, Fedotov, Ustimenko and a whole slew of under 25 year old players. The big question is whether or not AV and his staff can develop these players. Based on this season, the answer is no.

He'll get the first half of next season to prove this season was a fluke, his resume and last spring bought him that (along with the $15M contract overhang). But I don't think Fletcher is going to ask him for a shopping list.
The interest thing to watch will be Gordon, if Fletcher hires a top young coach for LHV, watch out.

 

[ybnvs]

Hayesey could appeal to Los Angeles.

#Hollywood #AirBud #Benji #Lassie #8Below #AllDogsGoToHeaven #LadyandtheTramp #Turner&Hooch #Marley&Me #Beethoven #Cujo #K-9

Darn it! You didn't list the best one!
Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey

 

[Beef Invictus]

He'll get the first half of next season to prove this season was a fluke, his resume and last spring bought him that (along with the $15M contract overhang). But I don't think Fletcher is going to ask him for a shopping list.
The interest thing to watch will be Gordon, if Fletcher hires a top young coach for LHV, watch out.

His resume is what should get him fired now, not buy him more time. He went straight to his Rangers nonsense the second he touched the real playoffs and hasn't looked back. This isn't uncharted territory. We know exactly where this goes, and it doesn't end with AV magically changing.

He will get a goaltending bounceback and people will proclaim he's fixed it, meanwhile the team will still be playing feckless idiot-hockey with a system that will never win without a performance in net that equals Bernie at his best. And the team will just waste another year.

 

[BritainStix]

The PK strategy must be the worst in the league also. If you know you have a shakey goaltender, maybe not pressuring the other team isn't such a sound strategy.

We have one short handed goal this season. Richards used to bag 5 himself! It's been f***ing putrid.