2020/21 Roster Thread XI: A Jambalaya of Suffering

[Striiker]

He will get a goaltending bounceback and people will proclaim he's fixed it, meanwhile the team will still be playing feckless idiot-hockey with a system that will never win without a performance in net that equals Bernie at his best. And the team will just waste another year.

This is exactly what’s going to happen.

All that 90% of people can see is the end result, and then they evaluate backwards from there. That’s why JVR and Farabee were gods when they were scoring and suddenly got crap when their shooting luck ended but their play was pretty much unchanged. Same as why people were so happy with a 8-3-1 start, even though the team was playing its worst hockey of the year.

As soon as the team is winning games we’ll hear that the forwards are putting in more effort, the defensemen are looking more organized, the coaches have them playing the right way, and the team as a whole looks better thanks to Fletchers offseason changes... even if everything is identical to right now, except the goalies remember how to play. And the media shills will be unbearable.

 

[deadhead]

His resume is what should get him fired now, not buy him more time. He went straight to his Rangers nonsense the second he touched the real playoffs and hasn't looked back. This isn't uncharted territory. We know exactly where this goes, and it doesn't end with AV magically changing.

He will get a goaltending bounceback and people will proclaim he's fixed it, meanwhile the team will still be playing feckless idiot-hockey with a system that will never win without a performance in net that equals Bernie at his best. And the team will just waste another year.

Except that the goalies overall were slightly below average last year and the team was on a 106 point pace.
The goalies were below average in 2017-18 and they ended up with 98 points.
So it seems this team is fine with AVERAGE goaltending, not Lundqvist in his prime (which Torts, not AV, benefited from).
What they can't over come is PUTRID goaltending (2018-19, 2021).

And we've seen that this season, when they get competent goaltending, they're a competitive team, when the goalies start the game by giving up a bad goal or two, they're in trouble.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Except that the goalies overall were slightly below average last year and the team was on a 106 point pace.
The goalies were below average in 2017-18 and they ended up with 98 points.
So it seems this team is fine with AVERAGE goaltending, not Lundqvist in his prime (which Torts, not AV, benefited from).
What they can't over come is PUTRID goaltending (2018-19, 2021).

And we've seen that this season, when they get competent goaltending, they're a competitive team, when the goalies start the game by giving up a bad goal or two, they're in trouble.

The team last year and the team from the playoffs onwards are two different things with entirely different playstyles.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Does it really matter how bad our beat writers actually are? With the prevalence of social media, it is not like we need writers to hold players and management accountable. They see the fan reaction in real time now more than ever.

We should ask ourselves why we care what any writer has to say in the first place, when the same games are sitting right in front of us too.

Thing is, there seems to be a large and vocal swath of fan base that refuses to think critically and eschew all sense or logic. That's where quality media coverage can play an important role.

 

[Audible Velvet]

So to sum up, AV is a textbook narcissist and integrity is out the window when it comes to the media coverage.

 

[Adam Warlock]

The team last year and the team from the playoffs onwards are two different things with entirely different playstyles.

This is the number one thing AV needs to be asked about after the season. I still can not for the life of me figure out why he abandoned a system that so clearly worked for this group of players. Even after the break, they played the same style and went 3-0 in the round robin. It was after that game 2 blowout loss to montreal that he abandoned everything and never went back.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is the number one thing AV needs to be asked about after the season. I still can not for the life of me figure out why he abandoned a system that so clearly worked for this group of players. Even after the break, they played the same style and went 3-0 in the round robin. It was after that game 2 blowout loss to montreal that he abandoned everything and never went back.

I think the likely answer is that he hadn't fully transitioned to the hockey he wanted last year, and instead they were running a hybrid of what the players knew from Hakstol with some more stretch elements added and freedom to go to the net. This year they've gone full AV. It takes time to beat out the old habits and replace them with the new. The excuse for going all in was the first sniff of adversity in the playoffs.

And even that wasn't exactly what we see now. In the playoffs he snapped into a cowardly shell and they only emerged from it in overtimes. This shit isn't even a shell. It's aggressive but in all the worst ways to be aggressive.

 

[renberg]

As soon as the team is winning games we’ll hear that the forwards are putting in more effort, the defensemen are looking more organized, the coaches have them playing the right way, and the team as a whole looks better thanks to Fletchers offseason changes... even if everything is identical to right now, except the goalies remember how to play. And the media shills will be unbearable.

Sorry but I have to disagree with some of this. When a coach has lost a locker room, its over. What is there for AV and his clowns to build upon for next season? If AV had any trick cards up his sleeve, he'd be playing them now. This mess didn't just start on game one. It was a carry over from the POs in the spring.
Hockey is a rough game. Every moment that a player is on the ice there is the chance of a career ending injury. These guys know what they're doing and risking by playing the game. They don't want to do that unless there is a chance of winning. When the coach is putting the player in that position with no chance of winning, the player gives up and goes into a self protection mode. Save their career. This is what I am seeing from many of the Flyers during the last month- get through this season healthy so that they can continue in this chosen profession.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I think the likely answer is that he hadn't fully transitioned to the hockey he wanted last year, and instead they were running a hybrid of what the players knew from Hakstol with some more stretch elements added and freedom to go to the net. This year they've gone full AV. It takes time to beat out the old habits and replace them with the new. The excuse for going all in was the first sniff of adversity in the playoffs.

And even that wasn't exactly what we see now. In the playoffs he snapped into a cowardly shell and they only emerged from it in overtimes. This shit isn't even a shell. It's aggressive but in all the worst ways to be aggressive.

It's not even that - it's nothing. It's slop. It's total randomness. I've never seen anything like it. Just abject confusion across the board.

 

[PDX Flyer]

Sorry but I have to disagree with some of this. When a coach has lost a locker room, its over. What is there for AV and his clowns to build upon for next season? If AV had any trick cards up his sleeve, he'd be playing them now. This mess didn't just start on game one. It was a carry over from the POs in the spring.
Hockey is a rough game. Every moment that a player is on the ice there is the chance of a career ending injury. These guys know what they're doing and risking by playing the game. They don't want to do that unless there is a chance of winning. When the coach is putting the player in that position with no chance of winning, the player gives up and goes into a self protection mode. Save their career. This is what I am seeing from many of the Flyers during the last month- get through this season healthy so that they can continue in this chosen profession.

If you have term on your contract why not play to get hurt and can sit out this shit show?

 

[TB87]

I hate this coach very much.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I hate this coach very much.

View attachment 428354

#Hogg is lock...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I recall people claiming several times that Mike Tomlin had “lost the team” with the Steelers. Then he rattled off a bunch of good to excellent seasons.

Things don’t come in absolutes. Good coaches sometimes have bad seasons, especially in professional sports where there’s no margin for error. It doesn’t mean they’ve irreparably “lost the team.” Maybe they just received an unpredictably, historically bad performance from an individual position, for example.

 

[TheKingPin]

Coaching sucks and is obviously the biggest issue. But you just lost to the worst teams in the league coming off their worst losing stretches. That’s a big issue that shouldn’t matter if Mickey Mouse was the coach. Big changes are needed with this team.

 

[TheKingPin]

I mean, the New Jersey Devils practiced playing 5-6 the night before playing us...they literally expected to be up on us. Blow. It. Up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I recall people claiming several times that Mike Tomlin had “lost the team” with the Steelers. Then he rattled off a bunch of good to excellent seasons.

Things don’t come in absolutes. Good coaches sometimes have bad seasons, especially in professional sports where there’s no margin for error. It doesn’t mean they’ve irreparably “lost the team.” Maybe they just received an unpredictably, historically bad performance from an individual position, for example.

Mike Tomlin is not comparable to AV. He's never turned it around once he derails.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I mean, the New Jersey Devils practiced playing 5-6 the night before playing us...they literally expected to be up on us. Blow. It. Up.

if thats true, that is hilarous....

GG AV, job well done sir...

take a lap, you loser...

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Mike Tomlin is not comparable to AV. He's never turned it around once he derails.

hey, almost winning is the same as winning sir..

#everyonegetsaribbon

 

[Peacekeeper]

Coaching sucks and is obviously the biggest issue. But you just lost to the worst teams in the league coming off their worst losing stretches. That’s a big issue that shouldn’t matter if Mickey Mouse was the coach. Big changes are needed with this team.

100%

First it was ‘coaching doesn’t matter’ remember the Mike Babcock off-season?

Now it’s all the coaches fault.

The team sucks.

 

[Redpath]

Coaching sucks and is obviously the biggest issue. But you just lost to the worst teams in the league coming off their worst losing stretches. That’s a big issue that shouldn’t matter if Mickey Mouse was the coach. Big changes are needed with this team.

AV needs to go. But in 2-3 years when the same core in underperforming, we'll go through the same song and dance.

"This coach is the worst we've had yet!"

 

[Beef Invictus]

AV needs to go. But in 2-3 years when the same core in underperforming, we'll go through the same song and dance.

"This coach is the worst we've had yet!"

Who is this core? Aside from Hayes and Voracek for the first time, that core is the only thing that's made the team respectable for years. 2-3 years from now that's likely to be the case too, unless Couturier and Giroux are gone.

 

[Redpath]

Who is this core? Aside from Hayes and Voracek for the first time, that core is the only thing that's made the team respectable for years. 2-3 years from now that's likely to be the case too, unless Couturier and Giroux are gone.

This core, right now? Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hart, Konecny, and Hayes are the ones under performing. They haven't been making us respectable for years. We haven't even been respectable in years, short of a stretch last season.

I just find it peculiar that Berube was the worst caveman to ever run the Flyers bench. Actually wait, it was Hakstol. Just kidding, AV is the now worst. Coaching is an issue, but this board has so overinflated it to the point that we're ignoring the elephant in the room that maybe our team just isn't that good, and that Fletcher inherited an extremely overrated crop of players.

 

[TheKingPin]

I think I would only need to keep G, Couts, Farabee, Lindblom, Sanhiem, and Hart as a core and then obviously rookies and young guys like Frost should remain. But it’s not like we have some masterful GM making the moves. But that plus some more D is perfectly good for any team to be successful on its own. Center is my biggest want. We have a lot of D now and coming but center is a big need.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This core, right now? Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hart, Konecny, and Hayes are the ones under performing. They haven't been making us respectable for years. We haven't even been respectable in years, short of a stretch last season.

I just find it peculiar that Berube was the worst caveman to ever run the Flyers bench. Actually wait, it was Hakstol. Just kidding, AV is the now worst. Coaching is an issue, but this board has so overinflated it to the point that we're ignoring the elephant in the room that maybe our team just isn't that good, and that Fletcher inherited an extremely overrated crop of players.

Berube sucked ass as a coach here. He had almost no HC experience and was in over his head. Giroux used to do his job on the bench while Berube looked on.

Berube now is not what we had. Hakstol was trash, yes. It's no mystery why UND suddenly won when they were freed of him.

 

[Redpath]

Berube sucked ass as a coach here. He had almost no HC experience and was in over his head. Giroux used to do his job on the bench while Berube looked on.

Berube now is not what we had.

There will always be an excuse to blame the coach, which I why I'm preemptively pointing it out for AV's eventual successor