2020/21 Roster Thread XI: A Jambalaya of Suffering

[Beef Invictus]

Prior: 2020/21 Roster Thread X: Chuck's time to shine

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[FatTugboatFlahr]

I f***ing love Jambalaya.

 

[Beef Invictus]

@flyerslducks had a mega long post and I shut the thread on him and I feel bad, so here it is:

"stacked as in there isn't much room. Like it or not, there are two ways we go this offseason: we make a few trades or we stand pat with a few moves. Its going to be hard to unload contracts elsewhere during the covid climate and Fletcher hasn't shown us he is willing to make a big move yet.

Teams are going to be hesitant to give up anything for guys with multiple years left on contracts who are over 30 without the Flyers picking up most of their salary. The Flyers have no readably available replacements. Sure, they could move them to create "change" or whatever, but simply getting worse isn't anything but change for change's sake, especially considering the Flyers will likely be eating salary, or signing the next JVR in FA.

I simply don't see the Flyers capable of a major shakeup. Not today. Not this offseason. I think if you want one, you're going to be disappointed. They're going to have to make due with this roster, and these players. This is why I was hesitant on the JVR and the Hayes deals when they got them, and I'm not super jazzed about the Laughton one, either. The Flyers have signed players to long term deals; and when you sign players to term, there comes a time when you inevitably go "yeah I don't want that guy any more" but you get stuck in a corner. Welcome to the corner.

This year has been awful, no good, and unfun. They're miserable to watch. They're frustrating. Every single player seems to just be the worst version of themselves right now. The best hope is likely going to be that this was a funky year, and a funky month, and things snowballed on them. I think some coaching shakeup (on the PP and the PK) will need to be made if AV is staying at the minimum. I expect they can move one or two players this offseason for some changes, but overall, the base frame of the 2021-2022 season is going to be generally the same. Fans love to shot "well if we just trade this guy I don't want..." and then get mad when other teams don't want the players/contracts they, themselves, don't want. So I think if you're expecting a monster shakeup...it's not coming. This season is likely over and we're dead in the water. Hopefully next year is better. And I'm not sure what our players are anymore. I think there's good players. But who knows any more since we are now going on another missed year? This was supposed to be a contending year after a promising run last year and we took a massive step back. We aren't just going to make changes and win the cup all of a sudden so whatever we do its going to be another process.

REALISTICALLY, i think we lose one of laughotn/hagg/braun or even JVR if we are lucky, we trade for a top 4 d, sign a reliable backup, and call it a day. That would mean we will have 2/3 of laughton/hagg/braun back + the roster remains intact. Sorry for the essay lmaaooooooo"

 

[flyerslducks]

@GKJ
well as of now its X-lazcynski-nak. Either we add someone at lw or go with Allison as the bare minimum of moves. Or Fletcher brings in 2 veterans to stabilize things because he doesn't believe in the youngins for a run. I for one would've absolutely LOVED Adam Lowry. I think he would've been a great add down the middle and we could've used the Laughton money toward him. Besides him, there is armia, cizikas, martinook, paquette, kuraly as 4th line options that i would rather have over perry

 

[flyerslducks]

@flyerslducks had a mega long post and I shut the thread on him and I feel bad, so here it is:

"stacked as in there isn't much room. Like it or not, there are two ways we go this offseason: we make a few trades or we stand pat with a few moves. Its going to be hard to unload contracts elsewhere during the covid climate and Fletcher hasn't shown us he is willing to make a big move yet.

Teams are going to be hesitant to give up anything for guys with multiple years left on contracts who are over 30 without the Flyers picking up most of their salary. The Flyers have no readably available replacements. Sure, they could move them to create "change" or whatever, but simply getting worse isn't anything but change for change's sake, especially considering the Flyers will likely be eating salary, or signing the next JVR in FA.

I simply don't see the Flyers capable of a major shakeup. Not today. Not this offseason. I think if you want one, you're going to be disappointed. They're going to have to make due with this roster, and these players. This is why I was hesitant on the JVR and the Hayes deals when they got them, and I'm not super jazzed about the Laughton one, either. The Flyers have signed players to long term deals; and when you sign players to term, there comes a time when you inevitably go "yeah I don't want that guy any more" but you get stuck in a corner. Welcome to the corner.

This year has been awful, no good, and unfun. They're miserable to watch. They're frustrating. Every single player seems to just be the worst version of themselves right now. The best hope is likely going to be that this was a funky year, and a funky month, and things snowballed on them. I think some coaching shakeup (on the PP and the PK) will need to be made if AV is staying at the minimum. I expect they can move one or two players this offseason for some changes, but overall, the base frame of the 2021-2022 season is going to be generally the same. Fans love to shot "well if we just trade this guy I don't want..." and then get mad when other teams don't want the players/contracts they, themselves, don't want. So I think if you're expecting a monster shakeup...it's not coming. This season is likely over and we're dead in the water. Hopefully next year is better. And I'm not sure what our players are anymore. I think there's good players. But who knows any more since we are now going on another missed year? This was supposed to be a contending year after a promising run last year and we took a massive step back. We aren't just going to make changes and win the cup all of a sudden so whatever we do its going to be another process.

REALISTICALLY, i think we lose one of laughotn/hagg/braun or even JVR if we are lucky, we trade for a top 4 d, sign a reliable backup, and call it a day. That would mean we will have 2/3 of laughton/hagg/braun back + the roster remains intact. Sorry for the essay lmaaooooooo"

hahahahaha it was probably for the best lmao. I just quit and am moving so I have a lot of time on my hands rn hhahahaha

 

[BillDineen]

I f***ing love Jambalaya.

Jambalaya yummy, Flyers yucky

 

[GKJ]

@GKJ
well as of now its X-lazcynski-nak. Either we add someone at lw or go with Allison as the bare minimum of moves. Or Fletcher brings in 2 veterans to stabilize things because he doesn't believe in the youngins for a run. I for one would've absolutely LOVED Adam Lowry. I think he would've been a great add down the middle and we could've used the Laughton money toward him. Besides him, there is armia, cizikas, martinook, paquette, kuraly as 4th line options that i would rather have over perry

Paquette would be fine, Armia is decent. I think Cizikas and Kuraly will get too much and I think Carolina will keep Martinook.

 

[Magua]

Teams who trade 2nd round picks — like Charlie wants — to solely get rid of a defenseman like Ghost, who clearly has provided positive (if not team highest) value to the defense this year, are loser teams. That is absolutely pissing away value. Then signing David Savard to market value. You can forget the margins at that point. Makes it realistic then, huh?

 

[flyerslducks]

Paquette would be fine, Armia is decent. I think Cizikas and Kuraly will get too much and I think Carolina will keep Martinook.

i agree but my point stands that there are better options if we want to shake up the 4th line over a guy like perry. I hope we look at them and change it up. Im all in favor of coming back with a brand new 4th line with tanner/nak or even without them..whatever gets us to a f***ing cup lol.

This is where I think Fletcher is awful at. He doesn't look at every option and just jumps into deals. He did when niskanen retired and signed braun/gus immediately and he did again with laughton (in a way he did it with hayes as well). After signing laughotn, he mentioned that laughton is an integral piece because losing him would've set the flyers back in terms of what he brings (versatility, pk, hard to play against, FO, 2 way fwd).....who gives af about this year. there are other options, explore it.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Jambalaya yummy, Flyers yucky

True shit billy.

 

[GKJ]

i agree but my point stands that there are better options if we want to shake up the 4th line over a guy like perry. I hope we look at them and change it up. Im all in favor of coming back with a brand new 4th line with tanner/nak or even without them..whatever gets us to a f***ing cup lol.

This is where I think Fletcher is awful at. He doesn't look at every option and just jumps into deals. He did when niskanen retired and signed braun/hagg immediately and he did again with laughton (in a way he did it with hayes as well). After signing laughotn, he mentioned that laughton is an integral piece because losing him would've set the flyers back in terms of what he brings (versatility, pk, hard to play against, FO, 2 way fwd).....who gives af about this year. there are other options, explore it.

If Fletcher just jumps around into deals, he would’ve been way more active since the end of last season. The approach he’s taking right now is one of extreme measuredness and patience. How that’s executed knowing he’s out of time this off-season will be judged in a small sample size.

 

[flyerslducks]

If Fletcher just jumps around into deals, he would’ve been way more active since the end of last season. The approach he’s taking right now is one of extreme measuredness and patience. How that’s executed knowing he’s out of time this off-season will be judged in a small sample size.

well lets see how he does this summer. He assumed that the team would've been just fine resigning braun/elliot and getting gus (LOL) and it failed massively. His first summer he went out and got braun/niskanen/pitlick. I think he knows he needs to do something even better now on the 3rd try. Its do or die time really

 

[Ghosts Beer]

well lets see how he does this summer. He assumed that the team would've been just fine resigning braun/elliot and getting gus (LOL) and it failed massively. His first summer he went out and got braun/niskanen/pitlick. I think he knows he needs to do something even better now on the 3rd try. Its do or die time really

The two offseasons are not remotely comparable. Why do people keep acting like they are?

His first offseason was a normal NHL offseason.

His second offseason he had to deal with a Covid-inflicted flat cap (not to mention a looming expansion draft).

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Teams who trade 2nd round picks — like Charlie wants — to solely get rid of a defenseman like Ghost, who clearly has provided positive (if not team highest) value to the defense this year, are loser teams. That is absolutely pissing away value. Then signing David Savard to market value. You can forget the margins at that point. Makes it realistic then, huh?

“acquire a #1”. Like that’s easy especially one of the true sense & not artificial.

Not even a good GM could navigate that wish list especially in one offseason let alone a bad one in Chuck Fletcher.

 

[Striiker]

Teams who trade 2nd round picks — like Charlie wants — to solely get rid of a defenseman like Ghost, who clearly has provided positive (if not team highest) value to the defense this year, are loser teams. That is absolutely pissing away value. Then signing David Savard to market value. You can forget the margins at that point. Makes it realistic then, huh?

He's closer to deserving to be protected than deserving to be traded with a pick attached.

Either Charlie is just completely clueless or AVs arm is [redacted] and working him like a puppet. At this point it's pretty clear that there's nothing he can do to get any credit from this team.

 

[flyerslducks]

The two offseasons are not remotely comparable. Why do people keep acting like they are?

His first offseason was a normal NHL offseason.

His second offseason he had to deal with a Covid-inflicted flat cap (not to mention a looming expansion draft).

I highly doubt he would've done a damn thing. You missed the point I was trying to make in that Fletcher assumed that the team would be fine as it currently was (he pretty much stated this). Maybe he would've made a play for different defensemen other than gus but he was never going to make a major deal because niskanen retired.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He's closer to deserving to be protected than deserving to be traded with a pick attached.

Either Charlie is just completely clueless or AVs arm is [redacted] and working him like a puppet. At this point it's pretty clear that there's nothing he can do to get any credit from this team.

 

[deadhead]

well lets see how he does this summer. He assumed that the team would've been just fine resigning braun/elliot and getting gus (LOL) and it failed massively. His first summer he went out and got braun/niskanen/pitlick. I think he knows he needs to do something even better now on the 3rd try. Its do or die time really

He didn't think the team would be fine, he was boxed in a corner by Niskanen's retirement and the ED.
Brodie wanted a NMC, which meant losing Sanheiim or Provorov in the ED.
Toronto gave him what he wanted, b/c they want to win now and they have to choose between exposing two of Muzzin, Holl or Dermott.

The only other choice was Tanev, who looked bad in Vancouver, great bounceback but a big gamble at $18M for 4 years. Don't know if he'd come here over Calgary anyway.

Gus was a "last man standing" addition, the other choices were off the board and Fletcher had cap money left over (can't roll it over like the NFL).

Same problem with goalies, what goalie was coming here off Hart's spring and bubble performance?
Quality veteran 1B types want to know they'll play at least 40% of the games to maintain their value for their next contract.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Fletcher assumed that the team would be fine as it currently was (he pretty much stated this).

That's patently false. He has consistently said since the beginning of the offseason that he was very actively exploring the trade market and trying to improve the team. Unfortunately, the cap stymied the trade market.

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[flyerslducks]

That's patently false. He has consistently said since the beginning of the offseason that he was very actively exploring the trade market and trying to improve the team. Unfortunately, the cap stymied the trade market.

he's obviously supposed to say that lol. Not saying he didn't do it but even so, it wasn't enough. As i said, we will see what he does this summer. I don't wanna hear this excuse next summer as well if we do bad again. Just to get a sense of where you guys both stand @deadhead ...from the failures of this current season, where do you see the failures starting? Are you saying that Fletcher didn't have a hand in it at all? Curious what you see differently

 

[flyersnorth]

This is my only jambalya reference. Never had it, don't even know what it is!

 

[deadhead]

he's obviously supposed to say that lol. Not saying he didn't do it but even so, it wasn't enough. As i said, we will see what he does this summer. I don't wanna hear this excuse next summer as well if we do bad again. Just to get a sense of where you guys both stand @deadhead ...from the failures of this current season, where do you see the failures starting? Are you saying that Fletcher didn't have a hand in it at all? Curious what you see differently

If the Flyers were legitimate contenders for the Cup, I suspect Fletcher would have made a major move, and you all would have been screaming about it - sign Tanev to that contract, what an idiot! Trade a 1st and Zamula to land a veteran RHD then dump Ghost to free up cap room? What a schmuck! Sign a veteran goalie to a 3 year/$4M a year deal - waste of cap room! But those are the moves you make when you're a contender and the window is closing in a couple years - like the deals we saw at the TDL.

Good think he didn't make major moves, nothing could have saved this team once Hart imploded, and now we've retained all our assets, will probably pick #12-15, and are in position to make major moves after the ED.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Flyers will not be successful til core management is changed.

 

[Striiker]