2020/21 Roster Thread IX: Where Everyone Becomes Erratic and Irrational

[Tripod]

That's the problem. He's paid like they weren't outliers. Voracek has to produce because he doesn't add much else. He doesn't PK and he's not particularly good defensively. He's the 6th highest paid RW in the entire league.

But since his contract started, he is 7th in RW scoring.

The top 8 highest paid RWers....are in the top 9 scoring RWers. Only Pastrnak is not being paid enough for the production he has delivered.

Jake has paced for 71 points the last 5 years....pacing for 70 this year...and still does not have a PP goal yet. So should get a few before the year is out.

So when you look at the whole contract so far, he is right about where he should be. Will he be the last 3 years? I would expect a natural drop down. Wasted his prime, G's, Couts(cheap ass contract wasted), Simmonds, Schenn's(luckily re-invested).

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Why use salary over cap hit though? Isn't cap hit the only thing relevant here?

Cap hit is the only thing relevant for us because we don't pay the players! Jake was paid big bucks early on in the contract when he was putting up closer to PPG rates of scoring. He's still paid around what his production is (even though players scoring above him aren't directly comparable because they're on ELCs or RFA contracts).
Another thing is that salary is more important than ever right now. We may be lucky to be allowed to spend up to the cap, but many teams right now can't. AV may not have been fired because of his salary.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not really that worried about Voracek. He hasn’t really been that good this year but he was good in previous years so not really sure it’s a steep decline. We’re kind of stuck with his contract anyway. You’re just not going unload full contracts in this current economy especially sizable ones. I guess there’s Seattle if there’s any chance but I just don’t think it happens.

 

[Curufinwe]

JVR wasn't worth a roster spot to start the season, now it's Jake.

What is Voracek's cap hit preventing the Flyers from doing, anyway? They stand to have plenty of cap space even before Seattle takes a player off the roster.

FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Jakub Voracek ($8,250,000) - Travis Konecny ($5,500,000) - Oskar Lindblom ($3,000,000) - Nicolas Aubé-Kubel ($1,075,000) - Wade Allison ($925,000)
Centre: Sean Couturier ($4,333,333) - Kevin Hayes ($7,142,857) - Nolan Patrick ($1,000,000) - Tanner Laczynski ($925,000)
Left wing: Claude Giroux ($8,275,000) - Joel Farabee ($925,000) - James van Riemsdyk ($7,000,000) - Morgan Frost ($863,333)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Justin Braun ($1,800,000) - Philippe Myers ($2,550,000) - Shayne Gostisbehere ($4,500,000)
Left: Ivan Provorov ($6,750,000) - Travis Sanheim ($4,000,000) - Robert Hägg ($1,600,000) - Yegor Zamula ($756,667)

GOALTENDER (1)
Carter Hart ($2,000,000)

Roster Size: 21
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $73,171,190
Cap Space: $8,328,810

 

[Rebels57]

He consistently scores at a top line rate even without top line usage that in itself is positive. I don't think he's untouchable and should be moved if it makes the team better. You said he has little to no trade value which is way different than thinking we should trade him for value.

For me, freeing up his $8.25 to improve the Defense makes the team better. Like if I could choose between keeping Voracek or using his money to sign Dougie Hamilton, it's an easy choice.

 

[mja]

If a trade makes the team better, sign me up. If it makes the team worse, no thanks. I really don't see a Voracek trade that makes the team better out there, so hang on to your 70 point winger.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Not really that worried about Voracek. He hasn’t really been that good this year but he was good in previous years so not really sure it’s a steep decline. We’re kind of stuck with his contract anyway. You’re just not going unload full contracts in this current economy especially sizable ones. I guess there’s Seattle if there’s any chance but I just don’t think it happens.

Not even married to the idea that we HAVE to move him. Just don't think bringing it up should be treated with laughing emojis and sarcasm. It's something to think about if it's possible.

 

[Rebels57]

Not really that worried about Voracek. He hasn’t really been that good this year but he was good in previous years so not really sure it’s a steep decline. We’re kind of stuck with his contract anyway. You’re just not going unload full contracts in this current economy especially sizable ones. I guess there’s Seattle if there’s any chance but I just don’t think it happens.

Right. Seattle is the only real possibility so if that doesn't happen then i'll move on from my anti-Voracek quest and just accept that he's not going anywhere.

 

[Tripod]

For me, freeing up his $8.25 to improve the Defense makes the team better. Like if I could choose between keeping Voracek or using his money to sign Dougie Hamilton, it's an easy choice.

But you know that won't happen.

They would re-sign Laughton to a 4 year 4 million deal and sign Savard to a 4 year 5 million deal.

 

[Rebels57]

But since his contract started, he is 7th in RW scoring.

The top 8 highest paid RWers....are in the top 9 scoring RWers. Only Pastrnak is not being paid enough for the production he has delivered.

Jake has paced for 71 points the last 5 years....pacing for 70 this year...and still does not have a PP goal yet. So should get a few before the year is out.

So when you look at the whole contract so far, he is right about where he should be. Will he be the last 3 years? I would expect a natural drop down. Wasted his prime, G's, Couts(cheap ass contract wasted), Simmonds, Schenn's(luckily re-invested).

And has been so bad defensively that he hasn't been an overall positive for this team. I don't know why we get so fixated on raw production here with all the information now available..

 

[Rebels57]

But you know that won't happen.

They would re-sign Laughton to a 4 year 4 million deal and sign Savard to a 4 year 5 million deal.

Aight well in this scenario lemme keep Jake lol

 

[Prongo]

Link?
(Out of curiosity)

I don’t have the link. I saw it on a Twitter account that was playing clips of the flyers information from the 31 thoughts podcast.

 

[Striiker]

If people honestly just want to free up money by removing a guy who isn't work his cap hit, they're targeting the wrong one.

How about the guy who's getting $7.14m for another 5 years?

 

[CutOnDime97]

And has been so bad defensively that he hasn't been an overall positive for this team. I don't know why we get so fixated on raw production here with all the information now available..

People really can't evaluate past looking at raw point totals, huh?

 

[Curufinwe]

And has been so bad defensively that he hasn't been an overall positive for this team. I don't know why we get so fixated on raw production here with all the information now available..

What metric are you using for that?

 

[Tripod]

If people honestly just want to free up money by removing a guy who isn't work his cap hit, they're targeting the wrong one.

How about the guy who's getting $7.14m for another 5 years?

N M C

Now there IS a guy who makes 5 million the next 3 years that could help lots of players on the team, if he was removed.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Have we forgotten Hal Gill, too?

Yes, yes I had

 

[CutOnDime97]

What metric are you using for that?

This is only this season, maybe an anomaly, I'd have to look around.

Looking at the Evolving hockey numbers I posted two pages back. He's been negative defensively for the past 6 seasons. Again I'm no expert on these stats and I could be out of place/using them out of context.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This is only this season, maybe an anomaly, I'd have to look around.

View attachment 418138

This chart also says Couturier isn't good at defense - is that right?

 

[mja]

This is only this season, maybe an anomaly, I'd have to look around.

View attachment 418138

Looking at the Evolving hockey numbers I posted two pages back. He's been negative defensively for the past 6 seasons. Again I'm no expert on these stats and I could be out of place/using them out of context.

FWIW, I'm not an advanced stat geek. I respect them just fine, but I'm an old dog and not inclined to learn new tricks. I'd be highly suspicious of any one stat though.

 

[CutOnDime97]

This chart also says Couturier isn't good at defense - is that right?

This season? I wouldn't argue too hard against it. Looks like he's been playing injured and hasn't looked himself at times. Looking season by season on Evolving hockey though, his numbers are pretty good.

 

[orangey]

I think they plan on exposing both Voracek & JVR in this cap environment. I do not believe Seattle will take either.

I could see Seattle taking JVR in particular with his reliable production for a couple of years. Seattle is going to need production to be competitive and needs to take on salary just to get to the floor. I have no idea of what else will be available but JVR would seem to be a logical pickup for what they would likely need, and he doesn't tie their hands with excessive term either. Plus he is coming off of a good season where he played on the top line. Can really ask for much more as an expansion team.

I doubt the the Flyers expose V. Just not a very Flyers thing to do to one of their cornerstone guys. Wouldn't mind it, just don't expect them to do it and risk bad feelings in the club. If the alternative is exposing NAK then there you go. Not a really a tough decision and I think he is decent as a 4th liner. They have replacements in hand though and it is a heck of a lot easier than trying to find a 70 point guy.

 

[mja]

This chart also says Couturier isn't good at defense - is that right?

He's no Connor Bunnaman, that's for sure. Right, @Captain Dave Poulin?

 

[Cootsfanclub]

If people honestly just want to free up money by removing a guy who isn't work his cap hit, they're targeting the wrong one.

How about the guy who's getting $7.14m for another 5 years?

10th highest paid center next year as of now and not even the worst free agent center signing that offseason!

 

[Curufinwe]

31 Thoughts: Sabres juggling multiple scenarios ahead of trade deadline

12. I could see Pittsburgh with interest in Scott Laughton. Remember: Philadelphia sent Mark Streit to Tampa in 2016, where he was flipped to the Penguins. (That’s awesome — the league needs teams who hate each other so much they refuse to make trades.) My sense on the Flyers is they’ve tested the market on Laughton. These things can change quickly, but the last time I checked, there hadn’t been much extension talk. I’m a huge Laughton fan, and the tough thing about Philly potentially losing him is that he loves being a Flyer.