2020-21 Norris Trophy candidates: Adam Fox, Victor Hedman, Cale Makar

[BlueMed]

Don't like the Bruins but McAvoy should be there instead of Hedman

Nah, he's not elite.

 

[BlueMed]

This Vegas series has shown that Pietrangelo can do everything Makar can't.

 

[Lays]

It's quite unfortunate that you can be a literal pylon defensively, but if you score a ton of points, you're in contention to get the Norris.

With the way some of these arguments being made, they should change this award to "The defenseman who scored the most points" award or something.

What happened to the defense part of it? If you aren't one of the best defenders in the league, you shouldn't be in contention for the Norris.

Sure, but this applies to none of these candidates.

 

[Lays]

Hedman wasn’t even close to Fox or Makar this season. Should have been McAvoy or at least 10 other defensemen before Hedman

 

[rangersfansince08]

Hedman through the first 2/3 of the year was playing great hockey, leading all Defenseman in scoring and was approaching +20 in +/-. He then got hurt and it severely impacted his game and bolts insiders have confirmed he needs surgery after the season. He started out slowly in first 2 games in playoffs including a reluctance to shoot pucks on net but has been great since and is back up near top of scoring lead! But offense aside, its Hedman's D that is what sets him apart from most other high scoring D. Hedman can shut down odd man rushes like few others due to his size and speed! So while Makar and Fox probably had better full offensive seasons that Hedman, defensively they just dont compare! Plus Hedman deserves the award for putting up his numbers having to play with Jan Rutta as a partner!

Fox is great defensively.

 

[Emerz]

Nah, he's not elite.

Seems like he did well this year from both the eye test and advanced stats, which part of his game do you think he could improve on? What I love most about McAvoy is that in addition to his defense and transition is that he just might lower the boom on someone on any given rush.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Hopefully this is a bit of a watershed moment for this award and the voters award it to the best defense man that had the best season. Which for me is Adam Fox.

Not sure what Hedman is even doing there. Great player surely but didn't think he was particularly good this year.

 

[aufheben]

This Vegas series has shown that Pietrangelo can do everything Makar can't.

Like the St. Louis Blues never f***ed up a playoff run.

 

[Weztex]

No playoffs, no awards. It will be Hedman, Fox, Makar in that order. The Norris is the one trophy that is earned over years of service, and I'm sure Fox and Makar will one day win one, but not this year.

I don't get the seemingly new narrative that the Norris winners have to ''pay their dues'' and ''wait their turn'' to win it? I've read that a few times but I see no evidence of that in voting going back 10 years.

2020 - Josi (right pick, never was in position to win before)
2019 - Giordano (right pick, never was in position to win before)
2018 - Hedman (his best season, nobody was close)
2017 - Burns (led d-men with 29 g/76 pts, beats Karlsson)
2016 - Doughty (right pick, not that close)
2015 - Karlsson (previous winner, edges out Doughty who had more previous consideration)
2014 - Keith (won it before, right pick)
2013 - Subban (never had a single vote before, beats veteran Ryan Suter)
2012 - Karlsson (never had a single vote before, beats previous year finalist Weber)
2011 - Lidstrom (questionable win over Weber, multiple winner, closest vote ever)

I fail to see a player who was cheated of a Norris because of ''years of service'' except arguably Shea Weber. And ever there, it's not like it was Lidstrom's turn. Now 2 of the 3 finalists are on their sophomore year. I don't remember that happening so it's a bit weird to claim that d-men have to play their dues to get some recognition. I just don't see anything to support that claim.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Mcavoy absolutely should've been in over Hedman this year.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I guess the Rangers GM isnt too thrilled with Fox’s nomination when he gotta get a new deal done next year lol

Most NHL GM's would be excited to have the caliber of player on his team that would garner a nomination. It would take a real buffoon to complain about having to pay a guy who is good enough for a major award nomination.

 

[McDNicks17]

Hedman will probably win despite being the worst of the three.

100% a reputation award.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nah, he's not elite.

You mean Parayko?

 

[aufheben]

remember how insanely difficult it was to show people how E Karlsson (OTT) and PK Subban (MTL) are overrated?

fast forward 3-4 yrs later, it's not even a discussion anymore

shows you the power of the fanbase and media vs the truth

i'm glad those debates are put to bed for good

Shows you the power of…aging?

 

[Thegeneral66]

I don't get the seemingly new narrative that the Norris winners have to ''pay their dues'' and ''wait their turn'' to win it? I've read that a few times but I see no evidence of that in voting going back 10 years.

2020 - Josi (right pick, never was in position to win before)
2019 - Giordano (right pick, never was in position to win before)
2018 - Hedman (his best season, nobody was close)
2017 - Burns (led d-men with 29 g/76 pts, beats Karlsson)
2016 - Doughty (right pick, not that close)
2015 - Karlsson (previous winner, edges out Doughty who had more previous consideration)
2014 - Keith (won it before, right pick)
2013 - Subban (never had a single vote before, beats veteran Ryan Suter)
2012 - Karlsson (never had a single vote before, beats previous year finalist Weber)
2011 - Lidstrom (questionable win over Weber, multiple winner, closest vote ever)

I fail to see a player who was cheated of a Norris because of ''years of service'' except arguably Shea Weber. And ever there, it's not like it was Lidstrom's turn. Now 2 of the 3 finalists are on their sophomore year. I don't remember that happening so it's a bit weird to claim that d-men have to play their dues to get some recognition. I just don't see anything to support that claim.

No player has EVER won the Norris without making the playoffs:

1953-54: Bill Gadsby - 3rd in voting (Chicago)
1958-59: Bill Gadsby - 2nd in voting (New York Rangers)
1958-59: Marcel Pronovost - 3rd in voting (Detroit)
1966-67: Bobby Orr - 3rd in voting (Boston)
1967-68: Tim Horton - 3rd in voting (Toronto)
2013-14: Shea Weber - 3rd in voting (Nashville)
2014-15: Drew Doughty - 2nd in voting (Los Angeles)
2015-16: Erik Karlsson - 2nd in voting (Ottawa)
2016-17 Victor Herman - 3rd in voting (Tampa Bay)

* 1975-76: Brad Park - 2nd in voting. Played 13 games for the New York Rangers who missed, traded to Boston, which made the playoffs.

you can now add Fox to the list.

The information above was provided by @Hockey Outsider in the thread below(not updated for 2019-2020 or beyond)

Norris finalists on non-playoff teams

The likely outcome due to Makar missing so much time this season is 1) Hedman 2) Fox 3) Makar.

 

[CanadienShark]

This has to be the least surprising finalists in a while.

 

[Hisch13r]

2 well deserved choices and a massive undeserved reputation nomination

 

[kingsfan28]

Pretty crazy to see 2 young guys there

Not really when the Norris is turning into a points award. If Hughes didn't have such a poor +/- he'd be there too. Not going to really count any of these awards considering they only played against like 8 teams. All three of those guys feasted off of weak teams.

 

[Osakahaus]

Hedman. Call me a killjoy but its hedman

 

[Sempiternal]

I'd vote Makar because I think he's amazing. Steady huge Hedman is the safe choice.

 

[Weztex]

No player has EVER won the Norris without making the playoffs:

1953-54: Bill Gadsby - 3rd in voting (Chicago)
1958-59: Bill Gadsby - 2nd in voting (New York Rangers)
1958-59: Marcel Pronovost - 3rd in voting (Detroit)
1966-67: Bobby Orr - 3rd in voting (Boston)
1967-68: Tim Horton - 3rd in voting (Toronto)
2013-14: Shea Weber - 3rd in voting (Nashville)
2014-15: Drew Doughty - 2nd in voting (Los Angeles)
2015-16: Erik Karlsson - 2nd in voting (Ottawa)
2016-17 Victor Herman - 3rd in voting (Tampa Bay)

* 1975-76: Brad Park - 2nd in voting. Played 13 games for the New York Rangers who missed, traded to Boston, which made the playoffs.

you can now add Fox to the list.

The information above was provided by @Hockey Outsider in the thread below(not updated for 2019-2020 or beyond)

Norris finalists on non-playoff teams

The likely outcome due to Makar missing so much time this season is 1) Hedman 2) Fox 3) Makar.

My comment wasn't about the playoff bit. It was about the Norris being a ''trophy that is earned over years of service'' part. There's no evidence to support that.

 

[kingsfan28]

My comment wasn't about the playoff bit. It was about the Norris being a ''trophy that is earned over years of service'' part. There's no evidence to support that.

Sure there's no evidence , but if you you look at the guys who have won it, not many have been second year pros who have had good seasons [or partial ones]. All the guys before this year spent several seasons building up a legit resume, and none of the winners have less than 3 seasons of work or played against the same 8 teams. Makar is a good example of a guy who missed large amount of games, then piled up the points in the last month when the season was already over for most of the 8 teams he faced. It's like what Karlsson did years ago, crappy 1st half, then a points bonaza the last 30 games. I think it took Hedman 5 tries before he was awarded the trophy.

 

[insomniac]

Would have liked to see Jakob Chychrun get a nod, but didn't expect it. A bit surprised that Nurse wasn't a finalist.

There shouldn't be any "extra" qualifications. It's "greatest all around ability" and that's all it should be. It shouldn't matter that some guys are younger and flashier, nor that some guys are older and "more deserving". Being runner up seven years in a row shouldn't make any difference, making the playoffs shouldn't make any difference...

 

[Weztex]

Sure there's no evidence , but if you you look at the guys who have won it, not many have been second year pros who have had good seasons [or partial ones]. All the guys before this year spent several seasons building up a legit resume, and none of the winners have less than 3 seasons of work or played against the same 8 teams. Makar is a good example of a guy who missed large amount of games, then piled up the points in the last month when the season was already over for most of the 8 teams he faced. It's like what Karlsson did years ago, crappy 1st half, then a points bonaza the last 30 games. I think it took Hedman 5 tries before he was awarded the trophy.

The guys don't spend several seasons building a resume. They spend several seasons getting better at their job and becoming elite.

How many second year defensemen have ever been the best in the league? Orr and...? Not Bourque, not Lidstrom, not Potvin or Robinson. Nobody hit the NHL at the top of their learning curve. Defensemen usually hit their prime in their mid-to-late 20's. Hedman won the Norris in his 9th season, not because he was ignored in the previous years but because he was not as well-rounded a defenseman when he was 20 or 21. Same for Keith, Doughty and many other. Players get better with age, that's not a big secret.

 

[elitepete]

Winner should be Fox. Makar is the most overrated player in the NHL.