Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part V

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Sol

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Jun 30, 2017
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It is.

Good vets stay and groom the future stars.

Bad teams trade everyone they can just to get value.

Yes, 10 million dollars a year to groom rookies. It's almost like if you have a player that good you can maybe fortify a position of weakness since Kopitar isn't going to be around when the Kings become competitive.

You make it sound like I'm saying get rid of a random vet.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
61,856
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One of the biggest problems, is the Kings have not brought in any NHL talent from 24-27 years old....all the best Kings are 31-36
OR 18-21 !


I've been in Denver for years now and when I saw the AVs add 3 NHL players last year; it was the start of something monstrous.
Donskoi (27), Burakovsky (25) and Nichushkin (25 ) and ALL made big impacts last year and are this year...and Kadri (29) was added last year and Saad (28) this year.
They got Devon Toews (27) this year, who has been a helluva player. All these were added to the base of Mackinnon, Landsekog, Makar and Rantanen and now they
are a powerhouse.


Donskoi a free agent. Burakovsky for a 3rd rd pick and nobody prospect, Nichushkin for an 850,000 , 1 yr contract! Kadri in the Barrie deal...Saad for Zadorov.
Toews for 2, 2nd rd picks.

There's 6 damn good NHL players, from 25-29 years of age and not even a #1 pick dealt, or top prospect!!!!! The best players dealt? Tyson Barrie and Zadorov.
The Kings need about 2-3 players, from 24-27 that are good NHL players.

Any of: Donskoi, Burakovsky and even Nichushkin (and Saad, Kadri) would / could be top 6 on the Kings. Kings have no second NHL line. Sakic got these 6 for not much, in less than 24 months and ALL in their prime.

and D Devon Toews is the steal of 2021.


Sure but as it relates to the Kings, the boldfaced is the most important part.

The "base" of Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev isn't quite there yet, and we don't know if we have anything remotely like Girard, Makar, Byram around.

You can't 'add' pieces until you know what you have. Donskoi would have been a colossal waste on this squad. Burakovsky was moved for...inconsistency. He would have been pinata'ed here. I like Nuke but his Avs career even with all the support and sheltering is 35 points/82. Someone like Toews would have been nice sure, but the rest are either cases of 'grass is greener' or 'we're not ready'.

I agree the age stratification is one of the Kings' current issues, but I also don't think it's one you attempt to 'solve' in like manner as the Avs.
 

bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
7,271
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It is.

Good vets stay and groom the future stars.

Bad teams trade everyone they can just to get value.
To play devil's advocate, since I, well, advocated dealing Kopitar prior to his deal, who mentored him? Armstrong? A few months of Conroy?

Brown had a waning Robitaille, a year of Demitra, a couple of players slightly older in Frolov and Cammalleri to carry the burden, and a bridge protector in Thornton.

Doughty had Kyle Quincey leading the offense from the back and another bridge vet in O'Donnell to mind the gaps.

I guess my point is that there isn't just one right way and different players will need different support in order to find comfort.

We have had limited opportunities to get to know these kids thus far, and this is strictly my opinion, but Turcotte could likely benefit from a grizzled vet with strong leadership skills who has experience going from balls out 24/7 to knowing when a more measured approach is required. And no, I don't mean Brown as his hockey character is lacking.

Byfield may need more fire and brimstone than a settle-down influence. Someone that allows him to fully explore his ability instead of containing it. Not Kopitar. At all. I am actually fairly worried that prolonged exposure to Kopitar's good-not-great attitude is going to neuter some of these kids before their balls fully drop. Kopitar is one of the eras greatest pure hockey players, but just as I said ten years ago, his ability to "lead" from the passenger side is a myth. Brilliant player who deserves and commands respect, but not the sort of personality who inspires others.

I propose a series of older bridge players on shorter term deals, 3 years at most, to insulate the transition. No more fliers on skilled guys, bring in nothing but dudes with battle scars, war stories, a willingness to actually defend the kids and not JUST the vets, and fully realize that the key to the next contender in LA comes from Byfield and Turcotte, not Kopitar and Doughty.
 

LAKings88

First round fodder
Dec 4, 2006
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To play devil's advocate, since I, well, advocated dealing Kopitar prior to his deal, who mentored him? Armstrong? A few months of Conroy?

Brown had a waning Robitaille, a year of Demitra, a couple of players slightly older in Frolov and Cammalleri to carry the burden, and a bridge protector in Thornton.

Doughty had Kyle Quincey leading the offense from the back and another bridge vet in O'Donnell to mind the gaps.

I guess my point is that there isn't just one right way and different players will need different support in order to find comfort.

We have had limited opportunities to get to know these kids thus far, and this is strictly my opinion, but Turcotte could likely benefit from a grizzled vet with strong leadership skills who has experience going from balls out 24/7 to knowing when a more measured approach is required. And no, I don't mean Brown as his hockey character is lacking.

Byfield may need more fire and brimstone than a settle-down influence. Someone that allows him to fully explore his ability instead of containing it. Not Kopitar. At all. I am actually fairly worried that prolonged exposure to Kopitar's good-not-great attitude is going to neuter some of these kids before their balls fully drop. Kopitar is one of the eras greatest pure hockey players, but just as I said ten years ago, his ability to "lead" from the passenger side is a myth. Brilliant player who deserves and commands respect, but not the sort of personality who inspires others.

I propose a series of older bridge players on shorter term deals, 3 years at most, to insulate the transition. No more fliers on skilled guys, bring in nothing but dudes with battle scars, war stories, a willingness to actually defend the kids and not JUST the vets, and fully realize that the key to the next contender in LA comes from Byfield and Turcotte, not Kopitar and Doughty.
I think a guy like Nick Foligno would be a good add.
 

Docgonzo

Triple Crown Line
Jan 9, 2010
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So in this crazy world where we trade Kopitar, who is our #1 center next season? Byfield? Vilardi? Whose the best penalty killing, draw taking center? Are we going out to sign a FA to be the #1? Because have you looked at the center free agent list? They’d have to overpay so badly to get someone to come out and be part of this rebuild it wouldn’t be worth it. They’d just be in the same position while killing our centers confidence because the whole offense would fall on their shoulders.
 
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bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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I think a guy like Nick Foligno would be a good add.
I think so too, but I imagine he is looking to cash in for term on his next deal. On paper he would be ideal.

Depending on who they lose to Seattle, I wouldn't mind seeing Luke Schenn brought back, maybe Bogosian, if its a right side blueliner lost. Not a "tough" player by any means, but Andy Greene is a gamer on the left side.

And I have brought this up multiple times, but I wouldn't mind seeing Lucic back for the next two years.

Point is, worry about character and not talent in the market. There is plenty of talent en route on a team ridiculously short on security blankets.

I don't trust this core one bit when it comes to having the kids backs. Brown has never defended anyone in his life. Carter is playing alumni hockey now. Kopitar, I completely trust him on ice but not in the head. Doughty frankly embarrassed himself last night with a tirade aimed completely in the wrong direction. Who exactly is going to be there when the kids struggle? Not that bunch of light touches.

There is too much invested in the future here not to insulate it further.
 
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Bandit

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Jul 23, 2005
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To play devil's advocate, since I, well, advocated dealing Kopitar prior to his deal, who mentored him? Armstrong? A few months of Conroy?

Brown had a waning Robitaille, a year of Demitra, a couple of players slightly older in Frolov and Cammalleri to carry the burden, and a bridge protector in Thornton.

Doughty had Kyle Quincey leading the offense from the back and another bridge vet in O'Donnell to mind the gaps.

I guess my point is that there isn't just one right way and different players will need different support in order to find comfort.

We have had limited opportunities to get to know these kids thus far, and this is strictly my opinion, but Turcotte could likely benefit from a grizzled vet with strong leadership skills who has experience going from balls out 24/7 to knowing when a more measured approach is required. And no, I don't mean Brown as his hockey character is lacking.

Byfield may need more fire and brimstone than a settle-down influence. Someone that allows him to fully explore his ability instead of containing it. Not Kopitar. At all. I am actually fairly worried that prolonged exposure to Kopitar's good-not-great attitude is going to neuter some of these kids before their balls fully drop. Kopitar is one of the eras greatest pure hockey players, but just as I said ten years ago, his ability to "lead" from the passenger side is a myth. Brilliant player who deserves and commands respect, but not the sort of personality who inspires others.

I propose a series of older bridge players on shorter term deals, 3 years at most, to insulate the transition. No more fliers on skilled guys, bring in nothing but dudes with battle scars, war stories, a willingness to actually defend the kids and not JUST the vets, and fully realize that the key to the next contender in LA comes from Byfield and Turcotte, not Kopitar and Doughty.
Good assessment. Don’t forget Handzus though.
 

bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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Good assessment. Don’t forget Handzus though.
For sure, but he was brought in after Anze was already here. I guess that still applies, I was thinking purely preemptively.

It still bugs me that on a team with Handzus and Stoll the Kings turned a rare, huge, potential offensive monster into a guy who got all the key defensive assignments instead of nuturing his offensive skills. Even when a two way killer like Richards was brought in to upgrade Handzus they continued to put Kopitar out on the first PK and against the toughest matchups. Of course he could handle it in spades but that is beside the point - I can help but think of the years of missing the playoffs or having poorer matchups could have been altered with better offensive numbers from their best weapon. Hell, even in their best years Kopitar lost out on Conn Smythes by being so damn exhausted he couldn't carry his A game through the last two rounds.

I don't want to see the same with Byfield because it took generational pure winners from the outside to be brought in to get over the top. The game has changed and there just aren't many of those guys left in fashion to make up the difference.
 

bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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So in this crazy world where we trade Kopitar, who is our #1 center next season? Byfield? Vilardi? Whose the best penalty killing, draw taking center? Are we going out to sign a FA to be the #1? Because have you looked at the center free agent list? They’d have to overpay so badly to get someone to come out and be part of this rebuild it wouldn’t be worth it. They’d just be in the same position while killing our centers confidence because the whole offense would fall on their shoulders.
There is no point to doing it now, if you trade Kopitar it was before his last deal to jump start the rebuild.

The only way it might work is if Colorado gets bounced early or by Vegas and are willing to move a Byram to get their Cups. No, not 1 for 1, but something worthwhile. But you don't move him for the sake of moving him. You just have to make some smart decisions around him to make sure that there are other vets capable of doing the heavy lifting and you aren't relying just on the current core as mentors.
 

Johnny Utah

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Aug 2, 2005
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Fans are talking trading Kopitar? Wtf.

The Kings really need to move Carter and Quick at this point. That 2nd line RW can be filled by Frk when he’s back.

Kings won’t move Doughty and Kopi and I don’t see them moving Brown.
 

Docgonzo

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Jan 9, 2010
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I think with how things are, teams with capspace and will to spend will be more desirable to UFAs than teams that are chasing championships. And even then the contracts won’t be the usual UFA contracts. I think Blake looks at this off-season to improve Defense and bottom 6 with character signings. Didn’t have the pressure this season with shortened season with no fans.

UFAs I wouldn’t mind Blake going after.

Blake Coleman, got his ring and possibly willing to sign for a little more and be part of rebuild.

Goodrow, same as Coleman.

Foligino- it’s a nice idea but he’ll stay in Columbus or try for a ring somewhere.

Savard- I see him being a desired piece to most teams. Good defenseman but not overly expensive.

Paquette- solidify the 4th line center position.

Goligoski- bring vet presence to a young d group.

These are just out of the box ideas besides the obvious ones of Hamilton, RNH, Landeskog, Saad, Krejci, Schwartz, Tatar etc
 

Statto

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I’m really not understanding the big picture view that things are going badly. Yes Blake said he wanted to make the play-offs and setting stretch goals is his job. It doesn’t mean he actually thought the team would make the play-offs unless an awful lot of things went their way. I never thought we’d make the play-offs, simply because the team isn’t at that stage yet and thinking otherwise was highly optimistic at best. Next year, absolutely we should be in the thick of the play-off race.

I’m happy they were competitive for as long as they were and right now they look like a team that now thinks they aren’t going to make it. They need to clear their heads and refocus because regardless of their standing in the play-off hunt the last couple of weeks simply hasn’t been good or professional enough. In terms of the big picture things are good but the last 2 weeks are concerning. Losing I can live with, just not they way they have been losing.

The argument for keeping Kopi, Brown, Quick and Carter is that they provide a competitive, structured environment that means the development of the young players is maximised. I fully support that approach. Unfortunately that group isn’t actually doing that over the last couple of weeks, so they need to stop pouting and re-establish the development environment very quickly. I’ve left Doughty out of that group because he’s the only one that’s showing something right now.

The argument that Kopi won’t be here when we next compete so we should trade him doesn’t stand up, because he does not need to be. What he’s here for is to make sure the team is competitive every night so that the likes of Byfield are playing intense games nightly and they develop within a pressure environment. It’s about making sure these guys hit their ceilings. So the vets need to bring it regularly and losing focus when it goes badly isn’t acceptable. If they aren’t leading the way then the argument for keeping them dissolves very quickly, so this needs to be no more than a blip.
 

King'sPawn

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Jul 1, 2003
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Yes, 10 million dollars a year to groom rookies. It's almost like if you have a player that good you can maybe fortify a position of weakness since Kopitar isn't going to be around when the Kings become competitive.

You make it sound like I'm saying get rid of a random vet.

No. I wish you said get rid of a random vet. Because then it could be argued if it was a middling player, like Maatta, that the youth would be competing to replace him.

Nobody can competently play Kopitar's role - a No. 1 center.

So trading a player just to get value means you still need to fill his role. That means:
- putting in a player who can't fill it, setting them up to fail
- forcing a rookie to do it, setting them up to fail
- overspending on free agency to get someone to fill the spot.

The Kings don't need to throw more quality vets away. They need their youth to develop and take over.

It's the same as with Carter. If your youth couldn't replace him, then you have bigger problems to address before worrying about trading him.

Even with youth capable of filling in the voids after trading Muzzin, Martinez, etc, they're still a mess defensively. Luckily Doughty can carry the top pair. Trade Kopitar, and you have less of a top line than what you have now, and nobody to carry it.

Trading Kopitar means you are trying to make the team worse and you want to kick start a rebuild inside the rebuild you already have.

The youth is outplaying Carter now. Trade him. This is the process I've been advocating.

To play devil's advocate, since I, well, advocated dealing Kopitar prior to his deal, who mentored him? Armstrong? A few months of Conroy?

Brown had a waning Robitaille, a year of Demitra, a couple of players slightly older in Frolov and Cammalleri to carry the burden, and a bridge protector in Thornton.

Doughty had Kyle Quincey leading the offense from the back and another bridge vet in O'Donnell to mind the gaps.

I guess my point is that there isn't just one right way and different players will need different support in order to find comfort.

We have had limited opportunities to get to know these kids thus far, and this is strictly my opinion, but Turcotte could likely benefit from a grizzled vet with strong leadership skills who has experience going from balls out 24/7 to knowing when a more measured approach is required. And no, I don't mean Brown as his hockey character is lacking.

Byfield may need more fire and brimstone than a settle-down influence. Someone that allows him to fully explore his ability instead of containing it. Not Kopitar. At all. I am actually fairly worried that prolonged exposure to Kopitar's good-not-great attitude is going to neuter some of these kids before their balls fully drop. Kopitar is one of the eras greatest pure hockey players, but just as I said ten years ago, his ability to "lead" from the passenger side is a myth. Brilliant player who deserves and commands respect, but not the sort of personality who inspires others.

I propose a series of older bridge players on shorter term deals, 3 years at most, to insulate the transition. No more fliers on skilled guys, bring in nothing but dudes with battle scars, war stories, a willingness to actually defend the kids and not JUST the vets, and fully realize that the key to the next contender in LA comes from Byfield and Turcotte, not Kopitar and Doughty.

Then-rookies Kopitar/Doughty/etc had plenty of different personalities and influences to help mold them. However, Kopitar and Doughty were talented enough to take in the roles, or integrate themselves into that role, fairly quickly. Mostly because Kopitar and Doughty didn't have a "Kopitar and Doughty" already on the team to replace and supplant.

I'm not saying keep Kopitar to foster a competitive/run through the wall attitude. We both know he's not that type of player. But he's a player with attention to detail, self-accountability as far as his role on the ice, and not seeing himself above playing a defensive game.

You need your top players to show those soft skills, as well as helping teach Byfield how he, as a player of similar size, can incorporate using his body and mechanics to protect and move the puck. Kopitar had to learn most of that himself or from lesser skilled players - that doesn't mean the Kings should expect the next wave to do the same.

I'm not opposed to bringing in grizzled vets, or vets with an attitude/toughness. I know it's not popular, but that's a part of the culture MacDermid brings, though again, he needs to be on the lower scale of ice time. He still brings that intensity to his game. I also wish the Kings re-signed Clifford.

Byfield, Turcotte, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc will be the next wave on the Kings if they own it. It has to come from them. Just like how it had to come from Pearson, Toffoli, Forbort. None of them stepped up to be more than settling into a role. If they don't own it, then frankly none of this matters, whether Kopitar is traded or not.
 

DoktorJeep

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Aug 2, 2005
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Instead of scratching Vilardi, he should get stapled to Kopitar’s line at right wing for the rest of the season. Feed him 20 minutes a night and make it his job to get 10 shots on goal every game. The rest of the forwards don’t matter.
 

YP44

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Jan 30, 2012
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I hope LA brings in an actual top 4 LHD this off season. Not sure who that is, or if it FA or trade but needs to be done.
 

YP44

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Jan 30, 2012
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Instead of scratching Vilardi, he should get stapled to Kopitar’s line at right wing for the rest of the season. Feed him 20 minutes a night and make it his job to get 10 shots on goal every game. The rest of the forwards don’t matter.

If Kopitar is the guys who is going to be grooming Byfield why not let him groom Vilardi too. I like this idea. Brown has had success on the left side before too. so you could keep him there.
 

unicornpig

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Dec 8, 2017
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Kopitar caliber players don't really hit the market. That's why. I mean, if Carter got a 1st and JJ with all those years left on his contract.. I don't see why Kopitar can't. He's got a great resume and he's still producing. Kings could get a first.
if kopitars return is a 1st and jj youre better of keeping kopitar. kings have issues finding someone to replace carter and people here want to trade kopitar......
 
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DoktorJeep

Expediency x Sentimentality = Mediocrity
Aug 2, 2005
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As of today, Kopitar’s stat line is as follows.

37gp 8g 32a 40pts -1 +/-

That’s good for #15 in the league in points. But it’s also the second fewest goals by any forward in the top 50 point scorers. He’s always been a pass first guy, so at some point hopefully Blake dictates to the coach who Kopitar’s linemates are for the foreseeable future. Brown leading the team in goals isn’t a sign of progress. It’s a one dimensional outlier season for a guy who isn’t a long term solution.

If the hockey gods are with us, it’ll be this season or offseason that the sacred cows of Carter, Brown and Quick are sacrificed.
 

Schmooley

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Apr 5, 2016
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kings have issues finding someone to replace carter......
This is not true. Carter looks like their worst forward a lot of nights especially if you are looking for effort and intensity.
They choose not to replace him. Thats different than not being able to.
They also give him a ton of ice time in all situations and it doesnt make sense. They waived Frk and hed slot in there well.
 
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